What if, by some dreadful piece of bad luck...

[InterestedAtheist]

It may sound more sane to you (and many others), but our ways are not God's ways.

A 'pretty good life' will not get us into heaven. Christ lead the perfect life so all could be saved. God's great plan of salvation .

It sounds like we might be going in circles if I say that a pretty good life might not be enough to get you in to heaven, but it shouldn't send you to hell...

Instead, let me ask you Seajoy: What if you did stand before Allah and he told you that you were going to hell for the crime of unbelief? Would that seem fair to you?

 

[039]

I don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but the muslims worship the christian God, that is to say the God of Abraham, also known as Allah, Yahweh or Jehovah, but they don't consider Jesus to be divine.

I do get what you're asking. What if we appear before another god? Reflecting, I would probably risk damnation by that god at the thought that it might be a trick or test. Would it be fair if I was condemned? Would it be my place to argue such a thing before that god, if he were the true one? I never thought of him to be my creator, nor did I strive to live for his name.

 

[seajoy]

It sounds like we might be going in circles if I say that a pretty good life might not be enough to get you in to heaven, but it shouldn't send you to hell...

Instead, let me ask you Seajoy: What if you did stand before Allah and he told you that you were going to hell for the crime of unbelief? Would that seem fair to you?

It doesn't matter if I think it's fair or not. It would be what it would be.

 

[FallingWaters]

What if you went before God when you died - and discovered that it was Allah?

What if you learned that actually it was the Muslims who were right, and the Christians who were wrong, and what if Allah gave you a choice: follow him - worship and obey him in Paradise - or else go straight to hell forever.

I don't know all that much about Islamic beliefs, about whether or not you would get a choice, or be sent to hell forever, but what if the above did happen? What would you do?

I have thought of something similar to that. That's when I made sure that my faith was based on actual truth and not fairy tales. I learned that the Bible is true because of the very many prophecies that were predicted and came true. The God of the Bible claims there is no other way to Him but through faith in His Son. I am secure with that.

So my answer to your question is: That's impossible. It will not be a different god.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I have thought of something similar to that. That's when I made sure that my faith was based on actual truth and not fairy tales. I learned that the Bible is true because of the very many prophecies that were predicted and came true. The God of the Bible claims there is no other way to Him but through faith in His Son. I am secure with that.

So my answer to your question is: That's impossible. It will not be a different god.

Hi FallingWaters,

It's ok, I'm not asking you to give up your faith in God. Just to consider a harmless hypothetical.

You know, what if? It couldn't happen. But just imagine if it did.

I'm sure most Muslims would feel equally strongly about a question like this.

 

[Gracegal]

I think one would have to assume that part of the hypothetical is that Islam is correct about Jesus - that he as the 2nd greatest prophet of Allah,

i agree that it is entirely an assumption that Islam is correct about Jesus.

..but the New Testament authors misquoted his words and misreported his actions.

that too is an assumption. and incredibly convenient for you to say.
any disagreement concerning Jesus and the gospel is rooted in the very old family hostility between the rightful line of Abraham., ie Jacob.. and the lesser line., Ishmael.

but i find that when i believe what the Apostles/disciples wrote about Jesus.. and act on it.. that God Jehova backs up what is said.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Hi Gracegal,

Good for you for sticking to your guns!

I'm just interested in a hypothetical situation, though. We needn't get into a disagreement about whether or not the Bible is more accurate than the Koran; I'm not saying that it is. I'm just asking what a Christian would do in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not even trying to make a point here, really, although some points may come up as we discuss answers. I'm just interested in what Christians would say.

How about it, Gracegal? You don't have to compromise your faith, just imagine a situation, no matter how unlikely it seems.

 

[Gracegal]

Thanks, Ebia!

But Gracegal, thank you for your sincere answer, and for thinking carefully about it. I appreciate the effort.
If you don't med, can I ask you a question I asked a similar poster earlier? As Ebia says, in this hypothetical scenario, the Muslims would be right about Jesus. So what if Jesus was with Allah, and told you that he was in fact merely a prophet as the Koran says, not the Son of God and in no way divine, and that it is your duty to follow Allah. What would you do?

the Jesus that i have come to know through the gospel and through experiences of life in no way make it possible for your scenario to be so.

in order for the Koran to be true.. then all in the Bible would have to be a lie.
and so your hypothetical scenario is a futile attempt to knock down the very fundamentals of the entire presentation of God's Truth.

i'm reminded of what Jesus said about one who builds their house upon the rock. verses one who builds their house upon sand.

i can but say that in my life .. my house being built upon the rock of the gospel of Jesus has weathered the storms & strong winds.
that when i use the Name of Jesus against the tests and trials of life i have emerged triumphant through His peace, His joy, His faith, His love, His wisdom, His patience, etc.

these things in confirmation of the gospel give proof that the Bible is true.

therefore in all honesty, i cannot give any serious consideration to the notion that when i get to heaven it will be according to the Koran.
i have heard what people of the Koran have to say about the Jews - of which Jesus is - and i cant see Him fostering hatred of His own people and Christians who bear His title.

i believe Jesus is as the Bible says, and not the way that the Koran paints Him to be.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

That's very good, Gracegal. I congratulate you on having such a strong faith. Not everybody has such strength of character, and you should be proud.

I'm sorry you thought I was trying to test or undermine your faith. All I wanted to ask was a simple question about a hypothetical situation - you know, I don't think you'll ever end up before Allah either!

Even Richard Dawkins, one of the most famous atheists alive today, answered when he was asked what he would say if he died and found himself before the Christian God. But if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.

See you some other time!
Rowan.

 

[Gracegal]

Hi Gracegal,

Good for you for sticking to your guns!

i'm not using guns. i'm using words.

I'm just interested in a hypothetical situation, though. We needn't get into a disagreement about whether or not the Bible is more accurate than the Koran; I'm not saying that it is.

now that's hard to believe. an atheist not saying that the Bible isnt accurate..?

I'm just asking what a Christian would do in this hypothetical situation.

well its easy for you to say that its not questioning the accuracy of either book. because i'm assuming that you dont believe either of them.
i'm sure that you have your own standards.. your own personal little atheist bible so to speak. just what would be your responses if someone presented a "harmless hypothetical scenario" that would essentially require you to abandon what you have lived by and found to be sufficient as a good guide?

I'm not even trying to make a point here, really, although some points may come up as we discuss answers. I'm just interested in what Christians would say.

How about it, Gracegal? You don't have to compromise your faith, just imagine a situation, no matter how unlikely it seems.

how bout you.. are you yet willing to compromise your atheist position in spite of all the discussions that you've had with Christians presenting the gospel to you?

now if you'd like to discuss Jesus and the Truth of the gospel i'd be more than happy to.

Jesus loves you IA.

 

[Gracegal]

That's very good, Gracegal. I congratulate you on having such a strong faith. Not everybody has such strength of character, and you should be proud.

whoa.. this amount of candy can make a person downright sick!

I'm sorry you thought I was trying to test or undermine your faith. All I wanted to ask was a simple question about a hypothetical situation - you know, I don't think you'll ever end up before Allah either!

thanks. you want me to put in a good word for you about where you'll end up?

Even Richard Dawkins, one of the most famous atheists alive today, answered when he was asked what he would say if he died and found himself before the Christian God. But if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.

no i'm not really interested in talking about your atheist hero. i appreciate your sparing me of it.

See you some other time!
Rowan.

God's best to you Rowan.

 

[ebia]

i agree that it is entirely an assumption that Islam is correct about Jesus.

that too is an assumption. and incredibly convenient for you to say.
any disagreement concerning Jesus and the gospel is rooted in the very old family hostility between the rightful line of Abraham., ie Jacob.. and the lesser line., Ishmael.

but i find that when i believe what the Apostles/disciples wrote about Jesus.. and act on it.. that God Jehova backs up what is said.

I'm trying to explain the nature of the hypothetical question, not commenting on whether or not Islam is correct on the matter.

 

[Gracegal]

I'm trying to explain the nature of the hypothetical question, not commenting on whether or not Islam is correct on the matter.

i appologize if i didnt notice the rules involved in answering on this thread. from your PM you made it clear that i wasnt doing things right.

"What if... thread

If you don't feel comfortable answering the hypothetical, why post on the thread. You just make it look like Christians are a bunch of people with beliefs so weak that they dare not think about them too hard.

I know that isn't your intention, but that is what it is going to look like to an outsider."

excuse me for not understanding the whole point of the thread.
i remove myself from responding any further. i hope this will help you to achieve your goals.

God bless

 

[InterestedAtheist]

It's ok, Gracegal, I think I've had some good responses already, and maybe the thread can be let go now.

Maybe see you another time!

 

[FallingWaters]

Hi FallingWaters,

It's ok, I'm not asking you to give up your faith in God. Just to consider a harmless hypothetical.

You know, what if? It couldn't happen. But just imagine if it did.

I'm sure most Muslims would feel equally strongly about a question like this.

Then obviously I would be at the mercy of whatever god it turned out to be.

 

[BelindaP]

Before you drop the thread, please let me answer the hypothetical. As I understand it, I die and wake up before Allah who gives me the choice to accept him or go to hell. I may or may not be dreaming.

If I am dreaming and accept Allah in my dream and wake up and find it is not true, I'm sure that God would forgive me. After all, I've committed murder in my dreams before. (TMI? ) So, I would have to say that I would probably accept Allah in my dream, even if that meant admitting that perhaps Christianity was wrong about Jesus.

If it were really happening, I would do the same thing. After all, muslims and Christians worship the same God. One of us will find out in the end who had it right.

Just to be on the faecetious side of things, though, I would point out that muslims believe that everybody will eventually go to paradise, even the devil, after they have served their time in hell. So, any Christians who wanted to defy Allah would be safe in the end. They would just experience extreme discomfort for a period of time.

 

[Mling]

"The mark of wisdom is the ability to entertain an idea without accepting it."--Aristotle

I consider this of something of an impossible situation, but not for the reason others have said. If there is only one God, then that means, whatever his name turns out to be (and Allah only means "Lord" anyway, same title we use in English), this is the diety that all relgious-type people are devoting themselves to. So, instead of seeing one god, versus a different god, the situation would be more like finding out that God's nature is not what I thought it was.

But
A) I strongly suspect that there is more variation within both Christianity and Islam than there is between the two religions. So, finding that God is more like a particular branch of Islam than my particular branch of Christianity is really no different than finding out that he is more like a different branch of Christianity than my own.

B). God's nature is certainly too complex to be fully understood by any individual anyway, or encompassed within any particular religion. So, again, God not being quite like I thought he would be is no real surprise--there's no way I have the wisdom at this point to fully understand the nature of God.

So, to me, the situation is fairly nonsensicle.

If I was a polytheist and believed in a separate YHVH and Allah--and it turned out that I was standing in front of Allah, well--there he is. Not much I can say or do to deny that. But I'm not a polytheist. Even less so than most, I would say. Many people who claim monotheism seem to have this idea that "There is YHVH, and Allah, and Vishnu and Krishna, and lots of others, but only [this one] really fully exists. There are empty voids where the others would be. A prayer to a god who doesn't exist dissipates into the ether."
I say, there is God. There are no empty voids. There are different names and different human mythologies and different forms of worship and devotion, but they all refer to the same God.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Thanks for your replies, Ming and Belinda!

Before you drop the thread, please let me answer the hypothetical. As I understand it, I die and wake up before Allah who gives me the choice to accept him or go to hell. I may or may not be dreaming.

Well, yes, but I just added the "dreaming" part because some people were having trouble going with the hypothesis.

If I am dreaming and accept Allah in my dream and wake up and find it is not true, I'm sure that God would forgive me. After all, I've committed murder in my dreams before. (TMI? ) So, I would have to say that I would probably accept Allah in my dream, even if that meant admitting that perhaps Christianity was wrong about Jesus.

If it were really happening, I would do the same thing. After all, muslims and Christians worship the same God. One of us will find out in the end who had it right.

A very enlightened approach.

Just to be on the faecetious side of things, though, I would point out that muslims believe that everybody will eventually go to paradise, even the devil, after they have served their time in hell. So, any Christians who wanted to defy Allah would be safe in the end. They would just experience extreme discomfort for a period of time.

Well, yes, that would spoil the scenaroi a bit. I did say in the OP that I didn't know all that much abouut Islam. I'm sure I could find one or another viewpoint of a God that could be used in this scneario.

"The mark of wisdom is the ability to entertain an idea without accepting it."--Aristotle

I consider this of something of an impossible situation, but not for the reason others have said. If there is only one God, then that means, whatever his name turns out to be (and Allah only means "Lord" anyway, same title we use in English), this is the diety that all relgious-type people are devoting themselves to. So, instead of seeing one god, versus a different god, the situation would be more like finding out that God's nature is not what I thought it was.

I have seen Christians before who said they would despise Allah if they found it was him.

But
A) I strongly suspect that there is more variation within both Christianity and Islam than there is between the two religions. So, finding that God is more like a particular branch of Islam than my particular branch of Christianity is really no different than finding out that he is more like a different branch of Christianity than my own.

B). God's nature is certainly too complex to be fully understood by any individual anyway, or encompassed within any particular religion. So, again, God not being quite like I thought he would be is no real surprise--there's no way I have the wisdom at this point to fully understand the nature of God.

So, to me, the situation is fairly nonsensicle.

If I was a polytheist and believed in a separate YHVH and Allah--and it turned out that I was standing in front of Allah, well--there he is. Not much I can say or do to deny that. But I'm not a polytheist. Even less so than most, I would say. Many people who claim monotheism seem to have this idea that "There is YHVH, and Allah, and Vishnu and Krishna, and lots of others, but only [this one] really fully exists. There are empty voids where the others would be. A prayer to a god who doesn't exist dissipates into the ether."
I say, there is God. There are no empty voids. There are different names and different human mythologies and different forms of worship and devotion, but they all refer to the same God.

Good for you!
thanks for your responses, both of you.

 

[Key]

What if you went before God when you died - and discovered that it was Allah?

What if you learned that actually it was the Muslims who were right, and the Christians who were wrong, and what if Allah gave you a choice: follow him - worship and obey him in Paradise - or else go straight to hell forever.

I don't know all that much about Islamic beliefs, about whether or not you would get a choice, or be sent to hell forever, but what if the above did happen? What would you do?

Ok so the question is.

I die, and find out I'm worng (Like I have never been wrong before), and there stands this "Diffrent" god, then the God I worshiped and dedicated my life to.

First, there needs to be the establishment that this is not a "False God" like a test by Satan or soemthing, and for the sake of this question, we will just go with the idea that, Yes, the Real god is what ever meets me after death, and this is not a Trick by Satan.

Then I would be a Fool not to accpet that this was the God of Creation, the God that I had sought to worship, I had spent my life following the "One True God" , and if this was that God, Then I would spend my afterlife Following that Self same God.

If I was worng, It was not for lack of effort, or faith, so I see no shame in continuing my faith in the god I thought I was folling my whole life.

Makes no diffrence "Who" met me.. as long as they were the One True God, that I Spent my Life trying to follow.

However, a nagging question would remain, if I was wrong, why did this god answer my Prayers?

I hope I have answered this question for you.

God Bless

Key

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Ok so the question is.

I die, and find out I'm worng (Like I have never been wrong before), and there stands this "Diffrent" god, then the God I worshiped and dedicated my life to.

First, there needs to be the establishment that this is not a "False God" like a test by Satan or soemthing, and for the sake of this question, we will just go with the idea that, Yes, the Real god is what ever meets me after death, and this is not a Trick by Satan.

Then I would be a Fool not to accpet that this was the God of Creation, the God that I had sought to worship, I had spent my life following the "One True God" , and if this was that God, Then I would spend my afterlife Following that Self same God.

If I was worng, It was not for lack of effort, or faith, so I see no shame in continuing my faith in the god I thought I was folling my whole life.

Makes no diffrence "Who" met me.. as long as they were the One True God, that I Spent my Life trying to follow.

However, a nagging question would remain, if I was wrong, why did this god answer my Prayers?

I hope I have answered this question for you.

God Bless

Key

That sounds great. Good for you.

Re your question - maybe he didn't.

Thanks!