What if a loved one ends up in Hell?

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
There is a difference between caring and enabling.

Well, if there is a difference between caring and enabling, then why would you talk about enabling at all when we are having a discussion about a topic on caring when a loved one is in pain?

There's a crucial difference. It is of the utmost importance to understand that difference for the sanity of all concerned.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source
Medical Dictionary

en·abler definition
Pronunciation: /i-ˈnā-b(ə-)lər/
Function: n
: one that enables another to achieve an end
especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by helping that individual avoid the consequences of such behavior

 

[Whatthedeuce]

There's a crucial difference. It is of the utmost importance to understand that difference for the sanity of all concerned.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source
Medical Dictionary

en·abler definition
Pronunciation: /i-ˈnā-b(ə-)lər/
Function: n
: one that enables another to achieve an end
especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by helping that individual avoid the consequences of such behavior

I am aware of what enabling means. However, when you put quote marks around it, it indicates you are using it in a non-traditional way, and are probably actually talking about the topic you were responding to instead of bringing up some new topic.
So, why did you bring up the term? Does it lend any insight to my OP, or are you introducing a new topic?

 

[Criada]

If we are talking about loved ones who are already in hell, then enabling is fairly irrelevant.
Feeling sadness, pain, distress over the fate of someone one loves (or indeed of any human being!) is not enabling. I cannot contemplate the idea of eternal torment - nor do I think that it is scriptural - but if I did believe that anyone was to be tortured eternally for finite sins, I would indeed be distraught over it.

 

[Sketcher]

Since the judgment is final, it wouldn't do any good to dwell on it.

 

[Criada]

Since the judgment is final, it wouldn't do any good to dwell on it.

So we just forget those we love?
I don't think that is possible.. or I hope that it isn't...

 

[brinny]

First of all, this question is primarily directed at Christians who believe that Heaven and Hell exists and their memories of loved ones persist in the afterlife. If you don't believe in one of those ideas, I welcome your comments, but I am most interested in the thoughts of Christians who do believe those ideas.

Heaven is supposed to be a place of bliss. However, with the large number of people who will not gain entrance to Heaven, it is unavoidable that some of its members will have spouses, parents, children and other loved ones who are in Hell. Could you be happy if a loved one ended up in Hell while you were in Heaven?

The above is the Opening Post.

I wil clarify my response and why i brought up the word "enabling" vs "caring".

I believe that yes, there is a hell. It is written. That is why Jesus the Christ Himself said that NOW, TODAY, is the time of salvation. He came as propitiation for our sins. The offer is for you, me, our loved ones, all of mankind.

There wil be those who pay it no heed and kick it away as if it's a dead carcass. If, suddenly they died, they would be lost. It is unfortunate, but it is the choice they made. They, in essence kicked in the teeth of God's grace. Thy would face a holy God's wrath, and explain, all alone, why they rejected the priceless gift of grace from God's only begotten Son, Who died that they may be reunited with this holy God.

To such, condemnation is sure.

To those who accept God's grace, God heals all pain and grief, and heaviness of spirit. He will lift each of His own children's heads, and heal all that pains them, wiping away each and every tear.

Yes, it is tragic that someone would blatantly choose to swat away God's grace as if it was a fly, However, it is their choice. Caring for loved ones who do this does not mean that we take on the guilt that they bear for their decision. To do so is enabling, and not healthy love. Our love will be perfected when we see God face to face. There will be no false guilt haunting us for something we had no control over.

The one rejecting GOd's grace will be compelled to bear their own guilt for they rejected the Saviour Who would have borne it for them and saved them from such a place.

The One each of us will come face to face with, is God Himself. Those Who rejected the costly sacrifice of His only begotten son, will be standing alone, before a holy God, Who will not be smiling.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

Here's something i wrote on this very thing:

Fiery Murmurings

Fiery murmurings, skulls and bones,
darkly moving shadowy groans
Pits of bondage
Howls of pain
haunting sorrows
Gnawing shame
Hope is gone
All is lost
What a pity
What a cost
To cast aside the grace
That would’ve saved you
From this place

Jesus Himself said, in reference to His own earthly family:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50).

 

[Whatthedeuce]

The above is the Opening Post.

I wil clarify my response and why i brought up the word "enabling" vs "caring".

I believe that yes, there is a hell. It is written. That is why Jesus the Christ Himself said that NOW, TODAY, is the time of salvation. He came as propitiation for our sins. The offer is for you, me, our loved ones, all of mankind.

There wil be those who pay it no heed and kick it away as if it's a dead carcass. If, suddenly they died, they would be lost. It is unfortunate, but it is the choice they made. They, in essence kicked in the teeth of God's grace. Thy would face a holy God's wrath, and explain, all alone, why they rejected the priceless gift of grace from God's only begotten Son, Who died that they may be reunited with this holy God.

To such, condemnation is sure.

To those who accept God's grace, God heals all pain and grief, and heaviness of spirit. He will lift each of His own children's heads, and heal all that pains them, wiping away each and every tear.

Yes, it is tragic that someone would blatantly choose to swat away God's grace as if it was a fly, However, it is their choice. Caring for loved ones who do this does not mean that we take on the guilt that they bear for their decision. To do so is enabling, and not healthy love. Our love will be perfected when we see God face to face. There will be no false guilt haunting us for something we had no control over.

The one rejecting GOd's grace will be compelled to bear their own guilt for they rejected the Saviour Who would have borne it for them and saved them from such a place.

The One each of us will come face to face with, is God Himself. Those Who rejected the costly sacrifice of His only begotten son, will be standing alone, before a holy God, Who will not be smiling.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

Here's something i wrote on this very thing:

Fiery Murmurings

Fiery murmurings, skulls and bones,
darkly moving shadowy groans
Pits of bondage
Howls of pain
haunting sorrows
Gnawing shame
Hope is gone
All is lost
What a pity
What a cost
To cast aside the grace
That would’ve saved you
From this place

Jesus Himself said, in reference to His own earthly family:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50).

So, I see that enabling is directly related to whether or not you will feel guilty when a loved one is in Hell. O.K. So then why did you start talking about guilt, when my OP made no mention of that emotion? Not feeling guilty does not preclude someone from feeling sad(the opposite of happy).

When you care about someone, by definition their situation is important to you. If you know that a person you care about is in a bad situation(such as being in Hell), this would be important to you, and it would have to affect you in some way even if you do not feel guilty. The OP was asking whether or not you could be happy while feeling the effects of knowing that a loved one is in hell. It makes no mention of guilt.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
The above is the Opening Post.

I wil clarify my response and why i brought up the word "enabling" vs "caring".

I believe that yes, there is a hell. It is written. That is why Jesus the Christ Himself said that NOW, TODAY, is the time of salvation. He came as propitiation for our sins. The offer is for you, me, our loved ones, all of mankind.

There wil be those who pay it no heed and kick it away as if it's a dead carcass. If, suddenly they died, they would be lost. It is unfortunate, but it is the choice they made. They, in essence kicked in the teeth of God's grace. Thy would face a holy God's wrath, and explain, all alone, why they rejected the priceless gift of grace from God's only begotten Son, Who died that they may be reunited with this holy God.

To such, condemnation is sure.

To those who accept God's grace, God heals all pain and grief, and heaviness of spirit. He will lift each of His own children's heads, and heal all that pains them, wiping away each and every tear.

Yes, it is tragic that someone would blatantly choose to swat away God's grace as if it was a fly, However, it is their choice. Caring for loved ones who do this does not mean that we take on the guilt that they bear for their decision. To do so is enabling, and not healthy love. Our love will be perfected when we see God face to face. There will be no false guilt haunting us for something we had no control over.

The one rejecting GOd's grace will be compelled to bear their own guilt for they rejected the Saviour Who would have borne it for them and saved them from such a place.

The One each of us will come face to face with, is God Himself. Those Who rejected the costly sacrifice of His only begotten son, will be standing alone, before a holy God, Who will not be smiling.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

Here's something i wrote on this very thing:

Fiery Murmurings

Fiery murmurings, skulls and bones,
darkly moving shadowy groans
Pits of bondage
Howls of pain
haunting sorrows
Gnawing shame
Hope is gone
All is lost
What a pity
What a cost
To cast aside the grace
That would’ve saved you
From this place

Jesus Himself said, in reference to His own earthly family:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50).

So, I see that enabling is directly related to whether or not you will feel guilty when a loved one is in Hell. O.K. So then why did you start talking about guilt, when my OP made no mention of that emotion? Not feeling guilty does not preclude someone from feeling sad(the opposite of happy).

When you care about someone, by definition their situation is important to you. If you know that a person you care about is in a bad situation(such as being in Hell), this would be important to you, and it would have to affect you in some way even if you do not feel guilty. The OP was asking whether or not you could be happy while feeling the effects of knowing that a loved one is in hell. It makes no mention of guilt.

Jesus Himself answered. Read again what He Himself said:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50)

And yes, those with the Father, face to face, will see Him rejoice over His own, with singing. His joy will be ours.

 

[Whatthedeuce]

Jesus Himself answered. Read again what He Himself said:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50)

And yes, those with the Father, face to face, will see Him rejoice over His own, with singing. His joy will be ours.

I read the quote the first time. It doesn't talk about people who go to Hell. It only mentions people who go to Heaven.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Jesus Himself answered. Read again what He Himself said:

“For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother" (Matthew 12:50)

And yes, those with the Father, face to face, will see Him rejoice over His own, with singing. His joy will be ours.

I read the quote the first time. It doesn't talk about people who go to Hell. It only mentions people who go to Heaven.

That's the point. Jesus' family is those who will be with Him in heaven. All others, including His earthly family who do not accept God's grace, are not His family. That's what Jesus was referring to.

It is also written that we to love God more than our earthly families/loved ones.

 

[Whatthedeuce]

That's the point. Jesus' family is those who will be with Him in heaven. All others, including His earthly family who do not accept God's grace, are not His family. That's what Jesus was referring to.

So, does the assertion that members of your Earthly family who do not go to heaven are not part of Jesus' family mean you don't love them? If you do love people who may end up in Hell, then in what way is this relevant?

It is also written that we to love God more than our earthly families/loved ones.

This appears to be more on the topic of my OP than your other posts. Could you elaborate more please? Exactly how does it address your ability to be happy while you have knowledge that loved ones are in Hell?

 

[brinny]

So, does the assertion that members of your Earthly family who do not go to heaven are not part of Jesus' family mean you don't love them? If you do love people who may end up in Hell, then in what way is this relevant?



This appears to be more on the topic of my OP than your other posts. Could you elaborate more please? Exactly how does it address your ability to be happy while you have knowledge that loved ones are in Hell?

We are transformed by our Father. Our family and loved ones will be in His presence, with us. All others who were formerly earthly loved ones/family, who rejected God and hIs offer of grace, are no longer such. Old things (relationships, family, loved ones who are not in Christ) pass away. We will not be the same, but transformed. WE will be with our Beloved, the One we love. That's why we are called His "Bride". It is as it was written in the beginning, that man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, and the two will become one.

There will be no tears for those not in Christ when the Bride is joined with the Groom, Jesus the Christ.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." ~2 Corinthians 5:17

 

[Whatthedeuce]

We are transformed by our Father. Our family and loved ones will be in His presence, with us. All others who were formerly earthly loved ones/family, who rejected God and hIs offer of grace, are no longer such. Old things (relationships, family, loved ones who are not in Christ) pass away.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." ~2 Corinthians 5:17

what does "pass away" mean? does it mean your memory of them is erased? does it mean the memory remains intact, but the emotional attachment erased? does it mean something else?

 

[brinny]

what does "pass away" mean? does it mean your memory of them is erased? does it mean the memory remains intact, but the emotional attachment erased? does it mean something else?

It means all earthly attachments, memories for the one in Christ, towards those who are not in Christ, cease. For we come face to face with our Beloved. We are no longer the same. All things become new. THere are no longer any tears or grieving over those not in Christ.

 

[Criada]

Sorry, forgot is was a no debate area.

 

[DoctorJosh]

First of all, this question is primarily directed at Christians who believe that Heaven and Hell exists and their memories of loved ones persist in the afterlife. If you don't believe in one of those ideas, I welcome your comments, but I am most interested in the thoughts of Christians who do believe those ideas.

Heaven is supposed to be a place of bliss. However, with the large number of people who will not gain entrance to Heaven, it is unavoidable that some of its members will have spouses, parents, children and other loved ones who are in Hell. Could you be happy if a loved one ended up in Hell while you were in Heaven?

This world will pass away and we will not remember this world or anyone we knew on it. This is because Jesus knows we would miss our loved ones who would not make it to Heaven.

 

[Dragons87]

First of all, this question is primarily directed at Christians who believe that Heaven and Hell exists and their memories of loved ones persist in the afterlife. If you don't believe in one of those ideas, I welcome your comments, but I am most interested in the thoughts of Christians who do believe those ideas.

Heaven is supposed to be a place of bliss. However, with the large number of people who will not gain entrance to Heaven, it is unavoidable that some of its members will have spouses, parents, children and other loved ones who are in Hell. Could you be happy if a loved one ended up in Hell while you were in Heaven?

An excellent question. For me this goes to the heart of what love is. I quote 1 John 4:19:

We love because he [God] first loved us.

You are right to state that anyone will feel unhappy when harm or pain affects our loved ones. But the degree with which we love our loved ones cannot be compared to the degree with which God loves our loved ones.

Therefore, if I feel unhappy if my loved ones may end up in hell, how much unhappier will God feel if he has to banish the unrighteous, who are still his children and creation, into hell?

I won't try to square God's righteousness with his love, but I take comfort that since he loved us first, and that his love for every one of us is greater than my love for anyone else, each and every one of us will be treated by God in the most appropriate way that balances his love with his justice, and that no one will say they were treated unfairly by God.

I hope that that helps. It's just one perspective, anyway.