What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
So? What do you expect. Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

And that is exactly why the law is upheld.

It is only held in error when believers conclude themselves to be sinless by upholding it.

hence, SDAists.

I'm not fond of trying to pull Gods Leg on the matter.

s

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
And that is exactly why the law is upheld.

It is only held in error when believers conclude themselves to be sinless by upholding it.

hence, SDAists.

I'm not fond of trying to pull Gods Leg on the matter.

s

You don't know Seventh Day Adventistism. If you did you would know that they do not conclude and never concluded that one was sinless even if one was completely obedient to God,s holy law. You would also know that they do not believe that salvation is not by the law either. So desist from telling lies on the people.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You don't know Seventh Day Adventistism.

I know it well enough to see the ripe hypocrisy and double measures they employ on matters of sin and law. It is quite a common phenomenon in christiandom in general, so don't feel alone.

If you did you would know that they do not conclude and never concluded that one was sinless

Their false claim is flat out provably wrong and very ill willed. Want to hear it again and again until you understand it?

Their false claim is that other believers who do not do the Sabbath on Saturday are sinners who stand condemned under the law and are therefore subject to possible eternal death. That is the epitome of a false holding of the law and a showing of the evil in their own hearts by that intention.

They are no different in regards of being sinners under the law then any believer on the face of the planet.

If you think you dodge the conclusion of being a sinner under the law you are only kidding yourSELF. God certainly isn't fooled by sinners sitting in the pew on Saturday, condemning everyone else who doesn't do so.

even if one was completely obedient to God,s holy law. You would also know that they do not believe that salvation is not by the law either. So desist from telling lies on the people.

Your position is openly transparent to anyone with half an eye to see it for the false claim it is.

s

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
I know it well enough to see the ripe hypocrisy and double measures they employ on matters of sin and law. It is quite a common phenomenon in christiandom in general, so don't feel alone.

Instead of basing your responses upon conclusions you have privately made, without giving your Scriptural foundational basis for them? For how else can one change change his mind about the matter if we only hear one side, your condemning conclusion, without the Scriptural justification for it?

Stop for one moment, please. OUTLINE for us using Scripture the basis for what your crusading is being based upon. Give us an outline using Scriptures. For if you do not? You will continue to sound like a delusional crusader who keeps throwing out subjective conclusions that are making the presumption that we are thinking wrongly, but you never give what is needed to be corrected. Without the solution what good is it that you do? Stop just tearing down. Build up as well.

Stop this ongoing cycle of never ending negative rebukes that leave us with no place to turn for correction.

Give us an outline for what you base your thinking upon. You may be right after all. But, terribly wrong, in that you never give any positive to balance out your continuous negative rebukes.

Then maybe we can begin to agree with you. As it now stands? No one is sure of what you are talking about. All we see is someone acting like a crotchety old man hitting sinners over their head with his splintered cane.

Thank you. Open our eyes Squint.

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
Anyone here every looked at Revelation 12 seriously? Why is Satan angry with God's church? 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Clearly satan is against God's people because they keep His Ten Commandments. Where does that put those who negates them?

Your premise is dependent on replacing the commandments of God with the old covenant He delivered us from, and commanded us to cast off (Galatians 4:30). This forces the conclusion that you don't know, and don't keep, the commandments of God.

1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

There are plenty of Christian assemblies available to you in Barbados. Go and visit one, and learn the genuine Gospel you've deprived yourself of.

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
You don't know Seventh Day Adventistism. If you did you would know that they do not conclude and never concluded that one was sinless even if one was completely obedient to God,s holy law. You would also know that they do not believe that salvation is not by the law either. So desist from telling lies on the people.

You don't know what Adventism's source of doctrine wrote in her writings.

Redemption in Christ means to cease the transgression of the law of God and to be free from every sin. (Faith and Works, p. 95)

There is no safety nor repose nor justification in transgression of the law. Man cannot hope to stand innocent before God, and at peace with Him through the merits of Christ, while he continues in sin. (1 Selected Messages, p. 213)

In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning. (Signs of the Times, March 3, 1888).

Christ died to evidence to the sinner that there was no hope for him while he continued in sin. Obedience to all God's requirements is his only hope for pardon through the blood of Christ. (The Upward Look, p. 189)

This vein of thought continues into modern Adventism as an integral part of your eschatology written into the Sanctuary Doctrine (where you get your Investigative Judgment):

In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated. (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)

You've seen this last quote before. It is evident that you misrepresent the lunacy codified by Ellen White and the 'church' dependent on her teachings.

MJohn7 · Dec 25, 2013

Paul says the commandments are about love. This is why he teaches many of the commandments, because they help us fulfill the Lords command to love. He also says that holy days are just a shadow of things to come and he doesnt seem to teach observing them necessarily.

Love Fulfills the Law

Romans 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
The Day Is Near

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
s

So, its Vermin Supreme in 2016?

This is your leader?

Vermin Supreme at Colby-Sawyer - YouTube

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
I know it well enough to see the ripe hypocrisy and double measures they employ on matters of sin and law. It is quite a common phenomenon in christiandom in general, so don't feel alone.

Their false claim is flat out provably wrong and very ill willed. Want to hear it again and again until you understand it?

Their false claim is that other believers who do not do the Sabbath on Saturday are sinners who stand condemned under the law and are therefore subject to possible eternal death. That is the epitome of a false holding of the law and a showing of the evil in their own hearts by that intention.

You don't know Adventistism an never did. Do you agree or disagree that we as Christians should worship God only? Answer: Yes. My brother that is the first Commandment. Now am I ill willed in saying that all who break this commandment will be subject to death? Am I evil to say that that is a sin and that God will destroy all sinners? Is that not biblical? Tell us all! We are waiting to hear!
Now the Sabbath. Just you did not know it forms part of the Ten Commandments and is a sin just as breaking the first. Sorry but SDA's did not write it there, God did. Will anyone who break the other 9 see heaven? NO! Did God put the fourth with the other nine? Yes. If God equated the fourth with all the others who is man to remove it?
You speak of a faults holding of the law, so tells us what is the penalty of sin if not death. Tell us if breath the Ten Commandments is not also sin?
Romans 7:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

squint said:
They are no different in regards of being sinners under the law then any believer on the face of the planet.

If you think you dodge the conclusion of being a sinner under the law you are only kidding yourSELF. God certainly isn't fooled by sinners sitting in the pew on Saturday, condemning everyone else who doesn't do so.

Your position is openly transparent to anyone with half an eye to see it for the false claim it is.

s

You absolutely refuse speak the truth. Who said they is a difference being a SDA sinner or else? You said that if you keep the Sabbath you score points with God? The claim is in your head. Do you not steal to score points with God? So why would you think that other people obey God just to score points? Again, you just don't know Adventist.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

genez said:
So, its Vermin Supreme in 2016?

This is your leader?

Vermin Supreme at Colby-Sawyer - YouTube

Let's just say I have an eye for legitimate criticism put into creative expression.

Mr. Supreme has a LOT to offer compared to most of our politicians. I mean come on. A PONY? Who doesn't love A PONY?

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
And that is exactly why the law is upheld.

It is only held in error when believers conclude themselves to be sinless by upholding it.

hence, SDAists.

I'm not fond of trying to pull Gods Leg on the matter.

s

This is absolute stupidity! Where did you see, read or was told that anyone is sinless by upholding the law? You should be ashamed for making such a faults accusation. You are not allowing Christ and Christian principles to show through here, not at all.

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
Let's just say I have an eye for legitimate criticism put into creative expression.

Mr. Supreme has a LOT to offer compared to most of our politicians. I mean come on. A PONY? Who doesn't love A PONY?

This is the major problem I have with what you are expressing.

It sounds like.. you are saying.. That when I sin, the devil joins me in union while I sin. Not, that I simply take on the traits and actions of the devil. But, that he actually becomes one with me in my sin.

Not saying that is what your intention is. I am saying, that is how what you are saying reads to me.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

genez said:
Instead of basing your responses upon conclusions you have privately made, without giving your Scriptural foundational basis for them? For how else can one change change his mind about the matter if we only hear one side, your condemning conclusion, without the Scriptural justification for it?

If any believer doesn't understand that we all deal with an adversary who's primary approach is through the avenue of temptation what do you really expect me to say about that genez? Did you miss that part or what? And needing to call that well established christian fact some private determination? Before you consider me a fool try reading the text sometime and spare me your angles.

Stop for one moment, please. OUTLINE for us using Scripture the basis for what your crusading is being based upon.

Already have with you many times. I'd suggest reading.

The point with the LAW remains that it engages more than just MAN into action. Go READ Matt. 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8's facts on this matter and get back to me. If you were really interested you'd have done so already.

I can read. Anyone else who does so should be able to come to an identical conclusion, that SATAN is prompted into action where the Word is sown, and yes, including LAW Word.

Give us an outline using Scriptures. For if you do not? You will continue to sound like a delusional crusader who keeps throwing out subjective conclusions that are making the presumption that we are thinking wrongly, but you never give what is needed to be corrected. Without the solution what good is it that you do? Stop just tearing down. Build up as well.

Let's just say that I reject your spin put upon the 'facts' being shared.

It's pretty basic stuff that I engage in here. I'm only surprised at the lack of grasp that people have on this basic subject matter.

Well, not really, but whatever. I could show you all day long that the tempter, the devil, Satan responds adversely IN MAN where the Word is sown and you may just never get it anyway. That doesn't change the fact of it.

s

Elder 111 · Dec 25, 2013

VictorC said:
Your premise is dependent on replacing the commandments of God with the old covenant He delivered us from, and commanded us to cast off (Galatians 4:30). This forces the conclusion that you don't know, and don't keep, the commandments of God.

1 John 3
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

There are plenty of Christian assemblies available to you in Barbados. Go and visit one, and learn the genuine Gospel you've deprived yourself of.

So you are telling us that nothing of the Ten commandments are pleasing in the sight of God? Thank God that He has kept me from such stupidity/deception. When I look at them they are look pleasing to God. Show us the one that are not.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

GenemZ · Dec 25, 2013

squint said:
And that is exactly why the law is upheld.

It is only held in error when believers conclude themselves to be sinless by upholding it.

The Christian remains sinless ONLY while being filled with the Spirit. If they should choose to grasp a thing tempting them, they are no longer filled, and its the Law that will define that what they did is a sin. The Law remains as the referee who declares how we fouled up during the play.

But, while filled with the Spirit, and desiring to gain more in the realm of truth and life? That is when we have no need to be Law conscious. For the Law is only there to check us after we sin.

The Devil opposes the believer understanding of what the Law contains. He is against it in that sense. For, he does not want our sins defined. Because, if we understand we sinned - according to what the Law proclaims? Then, with the Law's definition, we can confess our sins and regain fellowship an the filing of the Spirit. In that sense, the Devil is against the Law.

Are we on the same page?

squint · Dec 25, 2013

genez said:
This is the major problem I have with what you are expressing.

It sounds like.. you are saying.. That when I sin, the devil joins me in union while I sin.

Go back and tell me how many times I've cited 1 John 3:8 to establish the link between sin and the DEVIL.

The fact is they are linked. I understand that conclusion is not well received, but again, the words are not going away anytime soon.

Not, that I simply take on the traits and actions of the devil. But, that he actually becomes one with me in my sin.

You wouldn't be the first person to reject that linkage.

How many times do you need to hear that Paul had evil present with him? Romans 7:21. How many times do you need to read 2 Cor. 12:7 to see that Paul himself had a 'messenger of SATAN' in his own flesh? How many times do you need to hear that Paul had temptation in his own flesh? Galatians 4:14. How many times would Paul have to tell you that the sin that indwelt him was NOT him. Romans 7:17-20. How many times do you have to read Romans 7 in general to understand that when the LAW came to Paul that every manner of concupiscence transpired within his MIND? How many times will Paul have to say that he was the chief of sinners after salvation? 1 Tim. 1:15.

How many times would it take you to understand that an Apostle is scheduled to be on the FRONT LINES of these kinds of attacks from whom I wonder?

Hmmmmm? Let me think? Yeah, Paul must have been just attacking himself...

NOT.

Not saying that is what your intention is. I am saying, that is how what you are saying reads to me.

I engage in scriptural facts, not self imposed fantasy, about matters of SIN and LAW as the scriptures teach us all.

They are not just matters of MAN alone.

s

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
My brother that is the first Commandment. Now am I ill willed in saying that all who break this commandment will be subject to death? Am I evil to say that that is a sin and that God will destroy all sinners?

Now the Sabbath. Just you did not know it forms part of the Ten Commandments and is a sin just as breaking the first. Sorry but SDA's did not write it there, God did. Will anyone who break the other 9 see heaven? NO!

Compare this to Elder111's post dated November 22, 2013:

Elder 111 said:
Salvation is by Jesus and His Ten commandments, if you have a problem with that take up with Jesus Himself.

What we have on display is a soteriology based on 'keeping' the old covenant, and a denial of God's redemption. If we were to remove the mention of Jesus we would have the basic tenets of Judaism. I don't see any difference, and this continued rejection of the essential tenets of Christianity is the reason I can't accept the seventh-day Adventist 'church' as anything other than a cult.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

genez said:
The Christian remains sinless ONLY while being filled with the Spirit.

Well, there is at least part of the issue genez. No person becomes sinless in this present life. Nor does the SPIRIT leave us after we are saved.

So ya got a bit of a dilemma on yer hands doncha?

You might have to decide that God Loves you and dwells in you regardless of being a FACTUAL sinner just like He Loves the balance of us sinners.

We don't make ourselves 'sinless' in order for His Spirit to be with us and in us. That is quite an odd belief you may have there.

s

VictorC · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
So you are telling us that nothing of the Ten commandments are pleasing in the sight of God? Thank God that He has kept me from such stupidity/deception.

It is hard to ignore a denial concurrent of your actual practice.
Please explain why you've dismissed the commandments of God?

Elder 111 said:
When I look at them they are look pleasing to God. Show us the one that are not.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Now you've abandoned any appeal to the commandments of God, and instead list the contents of the covenant from Mount Sinai. How on earth did you get this far displaying such abject ignorance? God's commandments were listed right in my post where it simply isn't possible for you to ignore them! It takes practice to feign this level of illiteracy.

squint · Dec 25, 2013

Elder 111 said:
This is absolute stupidity! Where did you see, read or was told that anyone is sinless by upholding the law? You should be ashamed for making such a faults accusation. You are not allowing Christ and Christian principles to show through here, not at all.

The SDA is pretty clear that us other believers who don't show up in the pew on SATURDAY are sinning against GODS LAW/SABBATH and they apparently are not.

So that makes them what then? BETTER SINNERS than other SINNERS?

lol with that angle.

What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

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