What happens to the one who commits suicide?

[Zaha Torte]

I think that you're wrong on both counts, suicide follows only after many heartfelt and desperate pleas for mercy. Pleas which God has no doubt heard, and answered... not with an earthly intercession... such things are up to us, or fate. Rather God answers in a way that we should emulate... not by placing blame, but by forgiving. What good am I or God if we cannot understand and forgive the pleas of the suffering?

I wonder, how many sins have you committed for which you've never grieved as much as the suicide victim does over theirs?

God forgives when we repent. Suicide cannot be repented of in this life - because it would be the final act of our life - so it cannot be forgiven of in this life either.

This sin requires a suffering and forgiveness after this life.

 

[atpollard]

I never claimed that anyone was damned.

My bad … that was just what I call being sent to (punishment) rather than Heaven for an undisclosed period of time. I yield to your superior semantic hair-splitting as I note you offered no supporting verses for “suicide=murder, the unrepentable sin”.

 

[Zaha Torte]

My bad … that was just what I call being sent to (punishment) rather than Heaven for an undisclosed period of time. I yield to your superior semantic hair-splitting as I note you offered no supporting verses for “suicide=murder, the unrepentable sin”.

No one enters "Heaven" until after the Resurrection and Judgment.

I never claimed that suicide was the "unrepentable sin" or "unpardonable sin" either. There is only one unpardonable sin - and suicide is not that.

What I said was that we are not able to repent of suicide in this life - meaning that we will need to repent of it after this life - before our Resurrection - and needing to do so will require more sacrifice and suffering on our part.

In the scriptures murder is the unlawful killing of a human being - God gave specific instructions on when a killing was not considered murder.

None of those exemptions or justifications included suicide.

I understand that this is a sensitive topic for you - I also have had family members commit suicide - but we should not lash out in our grief or misrepresent what others say.

And we definitely should not try to explain away God's Word to make ourselves feel better - because the exact opposite will happen.

God is just and merciful - His Word is perfect - any attempt to replace what He has said with a lie will only hurt us - and any attempt to justify suicide or claim that it is preferable to living in any way will lead to more people hurting themselves.

God loves us and He does not want us to kill ourselves. He gave us our lies for a purpose. Only Satan would encourage us to destroy ourselves.

 

[partinobodycular]

Suicide cannot be repented of in this life - because it would be the final act of our life - so it cannot be forgiven of in this life either.

God doesn't give a hoot about when our lives begin or end, or whether we repeated some prerequisite plea for forgiveness. Do you really think that He's that legalistic or ignorant as to not know when people are worthy of forgiveness? Is God that easily impressed by a few well timed words of contrition, such as to not hold the heart of the penitent above all else?

Don't belittle God so, as to hold Him to your human standards.

This sin requires a suffering and forgiveness after this life.

Any suffering to come will be of our own making, not God's. He has no need nor desire for such things. The door to heaven is already open, you just need to walk in. Even here and now, the door is open, there is no tab yet to be paid. No forgiveness to be earned, except our own. The greatest fallacy is that God punishes us... we punish us.

 

[Zaha Torte]

God doesn't give a hoot about when our lives begin or end, or whether we repeated some prerequisite plea for forgiveness.

That is not accurate.

God placed us in this world for a purpose - at a specific time and at a specific place.

He determined when we entered this world, and we should not forsake that gift by determining for ourselves when we exit.

Do you really think that He's that legalistic or ignorant as to not know when people are worthy of forgiveness?

The New Testament is very clear that repentance is what leads to forgiveness in this life.

If you do not repent of your sins - you will suffer for them yourself after this life - before you are forgiven.

We must pay the uttermost farthing.

And to be clear - this is not a case of a person being taken out of the world by something outside of their control - but a person who is choosing to leave by committing sin.

God does know who would have repented had they had more time on Earth. That is not the same for those who willingly chose to leave early.

Is God that easily impressed by a few well timed words of contrition, such as to not hold the heart of the penitent above all else?

Repentance is a process of changing our hearts - having us become new creatures in Him - not a few well-timed words.

Barring some kind of mental deficiency or illness - those who end their lives are committing a selfish act and they are not prepared to meet God.

Don't belittle God so, as to hold Him to your human standards.

You are free to read the scriptures for yourself. I am sharing His standards.

Any suffering to come will be of our own making, not God's.

Absolutely correct. This is the suffering I am referring to.

Because the person chose to leave this world early - committing sin in selfishness - they will be pained by their own conscience - they will suffer the pains of Hell - until they have paid the uttermost farthing and are forgiven - yet they will be diminished.

He has no need nor desire for such things.

Correct - which is why He sent His Son to suffer and die in our stead.

We are obligated to have faith in the Son in order to be forgiven - those who commit suicide do not have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The door to heaven is already open, you just need to walk in.

You cannot open that door with sin.

Even here and now, the door is open, there is no tab yet to be paid. No forgiveness to be earned, except our own. The greatest fallacy is that God punishes us... we punish us.

The Lord Jesus Christ has already paid the price for us - yet His willingness to forgive us our debt relies on us having faith in Him and repenting of our sins.

We cannot be selfish or try to set our own standards or conditions - it is His way or the highway.

 

[partinobodycular]

The New Testament is very clear that repentance is what leads to forgiveness in this life.

If you do not repent of your sins - you will suffer for them yourself after this life - before you are forgiven.

I'm not sure that the bible is clear on anything, considering that it's filtered through the minds of people who seem to have have no idea what it's actually saying. For example, you think that it says that suicide is a sin, yet you can't point to any scripture that actually says that, you're just going to lump it in there with the "thou shalt not kill" commandment simply because you object to it on a cultural basis. Yet Saul committed suicide and nobody ever seemed to have any qualms with that. And God commanded the genocide of every man, woman, and child, yet nobody has any problem with that. So, "thou shalt not kill" seems to be pretty flexible as far as commandments go.

So saying that the bible is clear on something doesn't mean that the bible is clear on something.

You are free to read the scriptures for yourself.

I've actually read the NT many, many, many, many, many times. And what did I learn from all that reading? I learned that the bible can say whatever someone wants it to say, and unless that's in keeping with a benevolent, loving God... then it's probably wrong. Or it's talking about a God that I don't want to believe in.

But you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe... but as for me, I'll stick with Micah 6:8 and leave the legal details to people like you to argue about.

 

[Robban]

I'm not sure that the bible is clear on anything, considering that it's filtered through the minds of people who seem to have have no idea what it's actually saying. For example, you think that it says that suicide is a sin, yet you can't point to any scripture that actually says that, you're just going to lump it in there with the "thou shalt not kill" commandment simply because you object to it on a cultural basis. Yet Saul committed suicide and nobody ever seemed to have any qualms with that. And God commanded the genocide of every man, woman, and child, yet nobody has any problem with that. So, "thou shalt not kill" seems to be pretty flexible as far as commandments go.

So saying that the bible is clear on something doesn't mean that the bible is clear on something.



I've actually read the NT many, many, many, many, many times. And what did I learn from all that reading? I learned that the bible can say whatever someone wants it to say, and unless that's in keeping with a benevolent, loving God... then it's probably wrong. Or it's talking about a God that I don't want to believe in.

But you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe... but as for me, I'll stick with Micah 6:8 and leave the legal details to people like you to argue about.

There s no such commandment as , "Thou shall not kill."

"Thou shall not murder" is though.

To murder is to take an innocent life.

So one can expect much gnashng of teeth in the dark unknown.

 

[johansen]

i've read the prior 22 replies and, i'm not sure i agree fully with any of them

a friend of mine apparently killed himself about 8 months ago now, i've known him since 2016 and to be honest i'm surprised he lived as long as he did. i didn't find out about his suicide till 6 months after, because his family didn't know any of his friends, and i watched maybe 20 minutes of a 2 hour long memorial service on youtube (private link). it took me about 20 minutes to realize.. they all knew this would happen and were in denial of it. denial that their betrayal of him affected him mentally.

anyhow you don't know him but you've probably seen commercials and other digital marketing ad's his firm produced. he fired all his employees and went back to working for himself about 4 years in an attempt to get back to his native introvert self in the hopes his mental state would recover.

my own extra biblical experiences, of which i have no one in real life to talk to either, just as he did not.. suggest that he is with God at this time.

that being said, there are things he told me that he probably didn't tell anyone else, but i do believe he succumbed to suicide because he was wrong on several key points: while he wasn't Calvinist, he was Calvinist in several perspectives with regard to Isaiah 45:7, and this belief hindered him from really getting to know God through the struggle and pain of injustice and betrayal.

the last real conversation we had, he told me God dealt with him harshly for several years after he got angry at God and accused him of bringing upon him, quite a lot of misfortune. -i knew God had nothing to do with it, but he clung to his isaiah 45.

anyhow.. he never discussed suicide. but his health was failing.

I went the other direction he did.. i persistently asked God for a very long time to end my life.. and i look forward to it.

 

[irenevictoria]

We have the gift of life to experience it in all of its beauty and ugliness. It is to learn and grow. God looks at the heart Wolly. All your pain, your hurts, he knows all that. He feels all that and experiences it with you. He's there all along. But we have to feel that we are going through it alone so we can experience it and that it won't defeat the purpose of why we're here.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Suicide is a complication of a more complex medical issue. Compassion and empathy is appropriate, for the person who died but also those who they’ve left behind. Judgment is not. Like all other medical issues, there but for the grace of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hi about 2 years ago I wanted to end my life but my mom stopped that and called the police.What I had were horrible experiences with life drugs,smoking and I felt no divine presence in my life.The question is why did this happen to me?

Why did what happen?
A bad/horrible life? I don't know. No one is guaranteed a carefree life - stuff happens. The theological answer is that sin and suffering came into the world after Adam's disobedience and no one is exempt from it.
We don't choose what happens to us; we can choose how we react to it. It's a cliche, but true.
Why did cigarettes/drugs happen? I'm not being judgmental but they don't "happen" - at some point, we make the decision to go down that path. True, we may start because of the awfulness of life/peer pressure, and maybe we become addicted. But addictions can be broken; there is help available.

What have I done to divinity?What's the point of divinity if it doesn't involve in your life?

The fact that you are calling God "divinity" and "it" suggests that you may not know that he is your heavenly Father and wants a relationship with you.
The fact that you seem to be blaming "divinity" for your life suggests that you seem to believe that God punishes people by letting bad things happen, and that you don't feel you have done anything to deserve the things that have happened to you.
God punishes sin - but he sent Jesus to die for you so that your sin can be forgiven.
Believing in God and accepting Jesus doesn't mean that nothing bad will ever happen to you again. It does mean that you have his help, his strength and so on if it does happen.

I'm sorry things became so bad that you felt your only option was to end your life.
Have you ever thought that maybe God stopped you because he wants you alive for a reason?

If you insult the holy spirit like I did will you end up in hell?

If you mean "do those who end their lives end up in hell? I don't believe so.

I mean if you cut your eyes with a knife in the sea will someone search for your body?

I don't understand this.
If a person goes missing, police, and others, search for that person.
If there was a reason to think they had taken a boat out, they'd probably call the coastguard. If there was a reason to think that someone had gone out in a boat with the intent of hurting, and then drowning, themselves, they'd send people out to help.

 

[Strong in Him]

It is my understanding that suicide is akin to murder - which would require a time spent in Hell to be forgiven of.

I believe God is more compassionate than that.

A person may take their own life due to depression, mental illness, depression and and overwhelming belief that they are messing up other people's lives and the world would be a better place without them. They are in hell in this life and almost certainly believe that nothing can be any worse than the pain they are in at that moment.

Besides, the idea of people going to hell for a time and God later saying "that's enough time in hell; you're forgiven now," is not a Christian one.
Christ died for our sins so that we can be reconciled to God and don't go to hell.

 

[Strong in Him]

God forgives when we repent. Suicide cannot be repented of in this life - because it would be the final act of our life

And how do you know that a person may not call out to God for help and forgiveness before they die?
How do you know that the Spirit cannot minister to someone while they are unconscious, or before they become so?
How do you know that death from suicide will always be instant?

 

[johansen]

And how do you know that a person may not call out to God for help and forgiveness before they die?
How do you know that the Spirit cannot minister to someone while they are unconscious, or before they become so?
How do you know that death from suicide will always be instant?

correct.

as for life after death, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

Its hard for a healthy person to even understand what its like to be so depressed you don't even want to breath air.

this is google's retarded ai overview:

Emotional demoralization, also known as demoralization, is a state of persistent inability to cope with a chronic stressor. It can be characterized by feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, confusion, and subjective incompetence. Demoralization can also lead to low mood, anhedonia, diminished self-attitude, and changes in vital sense.
Demoralization can occur in people with a number of medical and psychiatric conditions, including chronic illness, cancer, and schizophrenia. It can also be comorbid with other conditions such as major depression, cognitive impairment, adjustment disorders, behavioral difficulties, dementia, and delirium.
Demoralization is different from depression, which is characterized by anhedonia, while demoralization is characterized by subjective incompetence.
Treatments for demoralization include: Improving coping skills, Therapeutic optimism, Support, Time, and Rehabilitation.
Some things you can do if you're feeling demoralized include: Activating a core identity, Shifting from avoidant to active coping, Believing that you can do it, Seeking relationships, and Being mindful of your emotions

Note the part towards the end: "activating a core identity"

It is my opinion that about half of the people diagnosed as bpd of which 10% kill themselves, are actually shell alters of OSDD systems and they don't know it.
As such, they do not have an identity as a person.. because.. wait for it..... they aren't a person. they are a shell, created by the mind for the purpose of hiding the underlying trauma that is contained by the other dissociated "persons" hidden in the background. -they have no identity, because it was fragmented in childhood trauma they aren't allowed to remember yet. my estimate is over 20% of these people kill themselves.

These people, are the most likely to be forgiven for killing themselves in my opinion.

the ones who harden their heart and curse God and die, as Job's wife told him to do.. won't.

 

[Zaha Torte]

And how do you know that a person may not call out to God for help and forgiveness before they die?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

How do you know that the Spirit cannot minister to someone while they are unconscious, or before they become so?

Not all ministrations of the Spirit are those of forgiveness. Forgiveness requires repentance.

How do you know that death from suicide will always be instant?

It does not matter. It cannot be forgiven of in this life.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I believe God is more compassionate than that.

I believe that what I said is the essence of compassion.

A person may take their own life due to depression, mental illness, depression and and overwhelming belief that they are messing up other people's lives and the world would be a better place without them.

A person may take the life of another for various reasons as well - it could still be murder.

They are in hell in this life and almost certainly believe that nothing can be any worse than the pain they are in at that moment.

No, this life is not Hell. God created this world for us and even at its worst it is not Hell.

Their delusional beliefs about their own suffering does not negate their sins.

Besides, the idea of people going to hell for a time and God later saying "that's enough time in hell; you're forgiven now," is not a Christian one.

Revelation 20:13-15 clearly teaches that Hell will give up the dead which are in it to be judged according to their works and those among them whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

Christ died for our sins so that we can be reconciled to God and don't go to hell.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all Mankind so that those who have faith in Him and repent can be forgiven of sin and be redeemed from Hell.

Those who do not have faith in Him and do not repent of their sins will be required to suffer the penalties of their own sins in Hell.

Since the Lord Jesus Christ promised that all sins save one will be forgiven Man - this would mean that those who suffer in Hell will eventually be forgiven as long as they did not commit that one unpardonable sin.

Only those who commit that one sin will be cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

 

[johansen]

Since the Lord Jesus Christ promised that all sins save one will be forgiven Man - this would mean that those who suffer in Hell will eventually be forgiven as long as they did not commit that one unpardonable sin.

this is purgatory nonsense.

Jesus never promised all sins will be.
he said can be.

you have to ask, and righteously desire to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.. not some, all.

if you die with a hardened heart, why would you ask for forgiveness later?

 

[Zaha Torte]

this is purgatory nonsense.

Revelation 20 clearly states that Hell will give up the dead within it to be judged of their works.

Jesus never promised all sins will be.
he said can be.

Matthew 12:31 Parallel: Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Out of the 45 Bible versions on the above referenced site - only 3 claimed "can" - the rest said either "will" or "shall" - one even said "may".

You are free to believe what you would.

you have to ask, and righteously desire to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.. not some, all.

Correct. This is why those who die in their sins must suffer the penalties themselves in Hell.

Then after they have paid the "uttermost farthing" they will stand before God to be judged.

Since the Lord promised that all sins will or shall be forgiven - save one - only those who committed that one will be cast into the lake of fire.

if you die with a hardened heart, why would you ask for forgiveness later?

No, of course not. Hell is not for those who would ask forgiveness if given the chance - but those who are unrepentant.

There are certain sins - such as murder - that just cannot be forgiven of in this life - despite pleads for forgiveness.

God would not be just if He allowed such to remain unpunished.

 

[Strong in Him]

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

What's that got to do with it?

Not all ministrations of the Spirit are those of forgiveness. Forgiveness requires repentance.

How do you know what happens at the point of death?
How do you know that someone may not take an overdose/jump off a bridge, survive - at least for a while - then die from their injuries?

It does not matter. It cannot be forgiven of in this life.

Oh so you're telling God what he can, and can't forgive now?
Good luck with that one.

 

[Strong in Him]

I believe that what I said is the essence of compassion.

If you're saying that someone who takes their own life, even if severely depressed, mentally ill and believing that their family would be better of without them is going to hell, no, that's not compassionate.

No, this life is not Hell. God created this world for us and even at its worst it is not Hell.

It could be hell for them; how would you know?

Their delusional beliefs about their own suffering does not negate their sins.

How do you know that they can't cry out to God and he forgives their sins?

Revelation 20:13-15 clearly teaches that Hell will give up the dead which are in it to be judged according to their works and those among them whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

And how do you know that suicides will be included in that?

Christians are not exempt from depression and mental illness. If someone were to take their own life as a result are you saying that God would condemn them to hell - eternity without him?
I know Christians who have died from dementia; they could no longer worship, pray, go to church etc. If they had somehow been able to get hold of a load of tablets to end it all, or if they kept taking tablets because they had forgotten they had previously had them, are you saying God would condemn them?
I know a Christian who had mental health problems but hardly ever missed church. Yet he is now in a very bad way in a mental health institution. Does God condemn him too?

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all Mankind so that those who have faith in Him and repent can be forgiven of sin and be redeemed from Hell.

And how do you know that people who believed in him, took their own lives but were able to whisper "sorry", or "help me" before they lost consciousness will still be sent to hell?

Like I said, I believe God is compassionate.

Those who do not have faith in Him and do not repent of their sins will be required to suffer the penalties of their own sins in Hell.

As you're not the judge, you have no idea who will go there and who won't.

Since the Lord Jesus Christ promised that all sins save one will be forgiven Man - this would mean that those who suffer in Hell will eventually be forgiven as long as they did not commit that one unpardonable sin.

Oh so you're saying now that hell is temporary?
Does God send people there for correction or to scare them into repenting?
Does he review the situation from time to time or check his notes and say "no, you didn't commit the unpardonable sin; you can come out now?"
If either of the above, how do you know that someone who had taken their own lives and been sent there (according to your beliefs), is not now in heaven?