- Oct 28, 2004
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What happens to people who die without having believed in Jesus?
What happens to people who die without having believed in Jesus?
What is accountable sin? If I do not know that sloth is sin, will it not make me guilty of that sin?not really. God judges according to accountable sin, and judgement varies according to the revelation of sin (Capernaum and Sodom). A 1 day old foetus will be judged much differently to an old priest.
"but sin is not counted where there is no law." Rom 5:13
What is accountable sin? If I do not know that sloth is sin, will it not make me guilty of that sin?not really. God judges according to accountable sin, and judgement varies according to the revelation of sin (Capernaum and Sodom). A 1 day old foetus will be judged much differently to an old priest.
"but sin is not counted where there is no law." Rom 5:13
What is accountable sin? If I do not know that sloth is sin, will it not make me guilty of that sin?
The Bible clearly teaches that if you have transgressed one commandment, you have transgressed all.
You seem to suggest that those that have never been exposed to the Gospel will be "pardoned" as they "did not know"?
Yet the Bible clearly teaches that all men are guilty . (Ecc 7:20, Ps 143:2, Rom 3:19,23, 1 John 1:8 etc.) as all have transgressed the law. That is exactly the purpose of the law- to show us that we are guilty. No one can claim righteousness (or ignorance).
How is any person to be saved ? Claimed either through ignorance or faith? No, the whole Bible tells a totally different story, it is only by grace and through faith and by the blood of Jesus that we are saved - removal of ALL sin through His blood and thus no trace of sin on which to judge.
This is a hard saying but exactly what the Bible teaches throughout - Old and New Testament.
Has the law been abolished? - No it is still in force for those that are under the law (the unsaved).
To suggest that different people will be treated differently (i.e foetus), finds no proof in the Bible. If it was so, our righteousness is not that of Christ, but our own based on the "number of transgressions" or ignorance. Christ has removed all sin.
The Bible however speaks of "rewards" based on our lives.
I cannot give you the answer in respect of foetusses , handicapped as it is nowhere indicated. I trust God to be righteous but I am not describing who He must save.Does God condemn all mutes or foetuses or mentally handicapped children to hell because they cant confess, much less understand Jesus? NO. I dont have every answer, but I know that God is righteous and just, and loving.
If your theology paints God a monster, better to be agnostic and silent, because we dont actually know or understand everything. Thats in the Bible too.
Does God condemn all mutes or foetuses or mentally handicapped children to hell because they cant confess, much less understand Jesus? NO. I dont have every answer, but I know that God is righteous and just, and loving.
If your theology paints God a monster, better to be agnostic and silent, because we dont actually know or understand everything. Thats in the Bible too.
Thanks for the post. Please excuse my ignorance, but can you refer me to the relevant Scriptures?A couple of things are clear in scripture.
One is that God's judgment does take ignorance into account. The reason an infant who dies is saved is not because he's "innocent," but because he's totally ignorant.
The other is that those of us who have been able to observe creation are held to a minimum amount of knowledge of God's existence, thus are expected to a certain minimum amount of acceptance of him--we can't claim a baby's total ignorance if we've been living a while.
If you accept that *all* babies who die go to heaven, like most christians, it is completely inconsistent to then say that once a child reaches an age of accountability, that God decides before they are born whether they will be saved or not. At least be consistent and say that all humans, regardless of age of death, go to the place destined for them - that I could respect as being consistent, albeit fundamentally wrong.
Thanks for the post. Please excuse my ignorance, but can you refer me to the relevant Scriptures?
Hi there. My background is Christian and based on the Bible. To put people in "pigeon holes" is an error, I would think, one does not "subscribe" to the views of a specific "view", but only on what the Bible teaches. This error becomes evident when I analyze your response - assuming that I, being a "Calvinist" subscribe to all his views on any topic. Any topic is analysed on the basis of Scripture only.Hello Andre77, you sound like to come from a Calvinist background. The Bible says whoever calls upon the Lord will be saved, and that with the mouth man confesses and with the heart man believes. These are positive statements, and in that, I mean that they *only* say what happens in the positive without necessarily making claims in their absence. For example, those verses cannot be used as proof texts to say that only people with tongues can be saved, or only people with the capacity to believe can be saved. If you can accept that babies are saved, then you cannot promote a ultra-literalist view of a sinners prayer, confessing Jesus, as the only way to heaven.
If you accept that *all* babies who die go to heaven, like most christians, it is completely inconsistent to then say that once a child reaches an age of accountability, that God decides before they are born whether they will be saved or not. At least be consistent and say that all humans, regardless of age of death, go to the place destined for them - that I could respect as being consistent, albeit fundamentally wrong.
If, as Calvin says in his writings, that God plans and ordains the fall of adam and the damnation of mankind so that He can *then* chose to save *some*, then I would say his teachings are to be damned as evil heresy.