What Happens if Christians Ignore the Teachings of Jesus?

[mattlock73]

Here's a list for this month's readings:

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/inspiration.htm

Many epistle readings included. A gospel reading is always included.

Thanks for that, it looks like some things may have changed in the past 16 years. Do you know if that is a daily reading schedule for one church or the approved liturgy by the Holy See for the entire church? (the site did not say) Last I knew, there were still only 3 readings done in mass, OT, Psalms and Gospel.

 

[AndOne]

Here's the authority:

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

What teachings did they pass on by word of mouth and not letter?

In order for us to know, we must study the practices and beliefs of the early Christians.

If Ignatius, who was eaten by lions for his faith, made statements about Christian practices and beliefs, then shouldn't we want to know what he said or wrote? Won't that help us hold fast to the teachings the apostles passed on to us?

Do you think he was a misguided heretic, or a faithful Christian who gave his life for Christ?

Paul was referring to his own teachings - not those of Ignatious.

In the case of Ingatious holding authority - he holds none over scripture. Though he may have been a faithful Christian if anything he taught was in opposition to scripture - then scripture has the final authority. That's how I see it. Same goes for the writings of any Church fathers down through the ages....

 

[chestertonrules]

Thanks for that, it looks like some things may have changed in the past 16 years. Do you know if that is a daily reading schedule for one church or the approved liturgy by the Holy See for the entire church? (the site did not say) Last I knew, there were still only 3 readings done in mass, OT, Psalms and Gospel.

That is for the worldwide Church.

All catholic churches read the same passages each day.

I've only been Catholic for about 5 years so I don't know what was done in the past.

I heard Scott Hahn explaining the lectionary and I think I recall him saying that they had revived an older schedule, which means that there has been a change in the past few years. That's a very hazy recollection, so don't hold me to it!


One other minor point: In addition to the three readings there is always a responsorial psalm.

 

[chestertonrules]

Paul was referring to his own teachings - not those of Ignatious.

In the case of Ingatious holding authority - he holds none over scripture. Though he may have been a faithful Christian if anything he taught was in opposition to scripture - then scripture has the final authority. That's how I see it. Same goes for the writings of any Church fathers down through the ages....

Paul says we, so I assume he means the teachings of all the apostles.

The point here is that not all of the teachings of the apostles are written in the bible.

I agree that oral teachings that contradict the bible should not be respected, but I don't see any of that in the writings of Ignatius.

The early church fathers writings can be very valuable in clarifying portions of scripture which may be ambiguous or confusing. It makes sense to determine what those who had contact with the disciples understood as the truth, don't you think?

 

[mattlock73]

Paul says we, so I assume he means the teachings of all the apostles.

The point here is that not all of the teachings of the apostles are written in the bible.

I agree that oral teachings that contradict the bible should not be respected, but I don't see any of that in the writings of Ignatius.

The early church fathers writings can be very valuable in clarifying portions of scripture which may be ambiguous or confusing. It makes sense to determine what those who had contact with the disciples understood as the truth, don't you think?

This is one of the two main points where Protestants and Catholics differ, the issue of tradition vs sola scriptura (the other being salvation on faith alone). Sola Scriptura does not state that the Bible is the only source of inspiration, nor does it hold that tradition does not have it's place (both are common misconceptions on both sides). It simply states that the scriptures are the ultimate authority on doctrine. That traditions, such as infant baptism or purgatory as examples, should be examined in the light of scripture to see if they are backed by scripture. Now I am not making the case for or against either of those positions, just pointing out that they are two 'hot-button' topics. It's one of the reasons the apocrypha is included in Catholic Bibles as there are some passages from 2 Macabees (if I remember correctly) that seem to lay the framework for support of purgatory. I think tradition (including oral) does have it's place in Christianity, but it should be verified against scripture. The old cliche about telling a story to one person in line and having them pass it on only to have the story mutate into something completely different by the time it gets to the end of the line is apropos here. In the scriptures however, we have the unchanging Word of God. Yes, translations change, but we can always go back to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

 

[chestertonrules]

This is one of the two main points where Protestants and Catholics differ, the issue of tradition vs sola scriptura (the other being salvation on faith alone). Sola Scriptura does not state that the Bible is the only source of inspiration, nor does it hold that tradition does not have it's place (both are common misconceptions on both sides). It simply states that the scriptures are the ultimate authority on doctrine. That traditions, such as infant baptism or purgatory as examples, should be examined in the light of scripture to see if they are backed by scripture. Now I am not making the case for or against either of those positions, just pointing out that they are two 'hot-button' topics. It's one of the reasons the apocrypha is included in Catholic Bibles as there are some passages from 2 Macabees (if I remember correctly) that seem to lay the framework for support of purgatory. I think tradition (including oral) does have it's place in Christianity, but it should be verified against scripture. The old cliche about telling a story to one person in line and having them pass it on only to have the story mutate into something completely different by the time it gets to the end of the line is apropos here. In the scriptures however, we have the unchanging Word of God. Yes, translations change, but we can always go back to the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

I agree.

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture. There are some doctrines that protestants attempt to condemn by their own intepretation of scripture, but that's another matter.

Infant baptism and purgatory, for example, are clearly supportable in scripture, even though they are not explicitly described.

The same can be said for the trinity.

 

[Blood]

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture.
Thats because you don't understand scripture.

 

[chestertonrules]

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture.
Thats because you don't understand scripture.

Let's review:

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture. There are some doctrines that protestants attempt to condemn by their own intepretation of scripture, but that's another matter.


Thank you for your support!

 

[Blood]

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture.
Thats because you don't understand scripture.
Let's review: I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture.
Thats because you don't understand scripture.

 

[heymikey80]

Let's review:

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture. There are some doctrines that protestants attempt to condemn by their own intepretation of scripture, but that's another matter.


Thank you for your support!

I just wouldn't expect someone to discover something they're not looking for.

 

[mattlock73]

Let's review:

I can't find any Catholic doctrine that is condemned by scripture. There are some doctrines that protestants attempt to condemn by their own intepretation of scripture, but that's another matter.


Thank you for your support!

Well actually I can find some catholic dogma not supported by scripture, but that's a topic for another thread and another day. This poor thread is so far off the OP it is unrecognizable by now.

 

[calluna]

Well actually I can find some catholic dogma not supported by scripture

You can't find even one Roman distinctive that is not contradiction of Scripture. That is what 'Tradition' and 'magisterium' and 'Fathers' are for. You can't find one era in which Roman leaders behaved even with responsibility and propriety, let alone Christian character. It is only because this world is such a stinkingly evil place that anyone gives the RCC anything other than contempt. It is a social offense, if not a legal one, to express support for the Holocaust, or deny its occurrence. The same should apply to the RCC and its evils. In a half decent world that would be so.

 

[chestertonrules]

You can't find even one Roman distinctive that is not contradiction of Scripture. That is what 'Tradition' and 'magisterium' and 'Fathers' are for. You can't find one era in which Roman leaders behaved even with responsibility and propriety, let alone Christian character. It is only because this world is such a stinkingly evil place that anyone gives the RCC anything other than contempt. It is a social offense, if not a legal one, to express support for the Holocaust, or deny its occurrence. The same should apply to the RCC and its evils. In a half decent world that would be so.

Meaningless gibberish.

Please site a single doctrine of the Catholic Church that is prohibited by scripture.

Good luck!

 

[chestertonrules]

Well actually I can find some catholic dogma not supported by scripture, but that's a topic for another thread and another day. This poor thread is so far off the OP it is unrecognizable by now.

You changed to subject.(althoughy I know that you didn't post the original post I responded to) The challenge was to find Catholic doctrine that contradicts scripture.

You can't.

 

[calluna]

Meaningless gibberish.

Please site a single doctrine of the Catholic Church that is prohibited by scripture.

Can't you read? All Roman distinctives contradict Scripture. Moreover, they all tend to remove initiative and control from private citizens to an invasive caste, who for over a thousand years was controlled politically. The RC'C' is merely a political tool of the worst people on earth, and that is saying something.

 

[mattlock73]

Can't you read? All Roman distinctives contradict Scripture. Moreover, they all tend to remove initiative and control from private citizens to an invasive caste, who for over a thousand years was controlled politically. The RC'C' is merely a political tool of the worst people on earth, and that is saying something.

All you do is throw out ad hominem attacks and flame. Maybe if you backed up your claims with even a little substance, you might be taken seriously. Have you ever produced anything of substance in a debate? Is this post showing the love of Christ? Is this correcting in meekness as we are told to do in Galatians 6:1? Instead, even when your bias and ignorance is corrected, you ignore it and continue to flame. If all you are interested in is trolling, I can recommend a couple of new boards to join. Otherwise, grow up for crying out loud, my 4 year old makes more cogent and relevant arguments.

 

[calluna]

All you do is throw out ad hominem attacks and flame.

So you are part of the political attempt to suppress the truth? Cut out the ludicrous excuses, and deal with this, poster, if it is possible:

All Roman distinctives contradict Scripture. Moreover, they all tend to remove initiative and control from private citizens to an invasive caste, who for over a thousand years was controlled politically.

Pick a dogma of Rome, anything you like, other than basic teachings. Let's see if I'm wrong.

 

[chestertonrules]

Can't you read? All Roman distinctives contradict Scripture. Moreover, they all tend to remove initiative and control from private citizens to an invasive caste, who for over a thousand years was controlled politically. The RC'C' is merely a political tool of the worst people on earth, and that is saying something.

That's an evasion, not an answer.

 

[calluna]

That's an evasion, not an answer.

It's not enough to just copy out my posts, chestertonrules. One has to know when to post them.

 

[chestertonrules]

It's not enough to just copy out my posts, chestertonrules. One has to know when to post them.

Another evasion.

I'm still waiting for you to post scripture that contradicts a doctrine of the Catholic Church.