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Didn't mean to make you swerve. Sorry... just for clarification for the readers. Not to throw you off your game. I liked your post.I love it when the Most high uses You to correct me, it just makes me want to swerve into another lane just so I can be pulled over and cited by you, I truley adore you.
Didn't know that about the potatoes, though I know bananas that are not hybrid have seeds the size of good n plenty (candy).
Cain lived because there were no witnesses who could testify against him, per Torah law
the Torah prescribes that such a man will die by the hand of Heaven... ie an unnatural death.
In the case of Cain,
Hey Pat! No never read the Koran, but we do know how Elohym feels about one who slays a lamb when we read Isaiah 66, which sounds far from a worthy sacrifice.
The scripture says that Ea'huah had שע which is a word that expresses 'dismay, and shock' (kjv transl. 'respect'), and is translated as 'dismay' elsewhere in the scriptures, please consult Strongs #8159
I believe Havel's sacrifice was justified from on high, not by Havel, for his sacrifice, was just that, a Real Sacrifice, I believe Cain's offering would have been acceptable if sin would have never entered the picture, but sin did enter the picture, and a price had to be paid, Cain didn't want to do it, and Havel was willing.
For all I know, Havel was the intended lamb Sacrifice all along, and Cain was in Abraham's shoes, but couldn't bring himself to slay his brother until (something like what Josephus shared from his studies), it became a threat to his birthright.
No body in their right mind should offer a sacrifice that is a pleasure to perform, it defeats the purpose.
Didn't mean to make you swerve. Sorry... just for clarification for the readers. Not to throw you off your game. I liked your post.
Dispensation comes from reading and Hearing the Torah. Confirming the Word with the Word.The blood of Abel testified against him, and there was no Torah yet, so no two witness requirement. We know that Yah taught Adam, who taught his sons, but we don't know exactly what they were taught. Only those prone to lawbreaking need the law spelled out.
Torah or talmud?
Fairy tale, as many other attempts to explain or expand on biblical stories.
Isaiah 66 is not about the sacrifices, but the intent of the people making them. If you offer an unworthy sacrifice (lame, blind, blemished), then you are worse than offering no sacrifice at all. You are offering insult as sacrifice to the creator. Obey first, then you will be worthy to offer a fitting sacrifice.
Yes, many Hebrew words can be either positive or negative, depending on circumstance. The text around this does not support the negative view. Yah respected or regarded Abel's sacrifice.
As to whether or not a sacrifice should be a pleasure, that depends on the sacrifice. There are non-blood sacrifices, such as wine, meal or first fruits of the fields. No blood sacrifice should be easy or light. That is why the Passover lamb had to be brought in for four days. In that time, it becomes like a pet, especially to the children.
As for human sacrifice, no. That was never allowed or acceptable. Cain's sin was pride. He could not humble himself to offer the correct sacrifice even when given a second chance. He chose instead to kill his brother who had done right.
I thoroughly enjoy your post.What if, like with Abraham, Elohym was only examining Cain's ability to have faith, and comply, trusting that Elohym knew what He was doing? And instead of succeeding unto the title 'father of many nations' as Avraham, instead he failed.
What if the sacrifice was Havel all along? yet, Elohym was prepared to offer Havel's lamb as a substitute at the moment He was convinced that Cain was going to follow through with it?
What if Cain thought he could regain his birth right stolen upon Havel's sacrifice? Then he would have a gainful motive fueled with anger jealousy, and resentment!
Yet to attempt to follow through with a sacrifice that was already accounted for by Havel's sacrifice, would place Cain in the same position the children of Israel were in, when Elohym told them to not go, after failing to comply with the first instructions, i.e. to go.
The blood of Abel testified against him, and there was no Torah yet, so no two witness requirement. We know that Yah taught Adam, who taught his sons, but we don't know exactly what they were taught. Only those prone to lawbreaking need the law spelled out.
Torah or talmud?
Fairy tale, as many other attempts to explain or expand on biblical stories.
The Torah has always existed. It was given to Moses, not drafted by him.
So yes, the two witness requirement exists for there to be a conviction and execution of a murderer. And yes the Torah, not Talmud explains by Cain's example that one who murders, and is not convicted by the testimony of two witnesses, that such a murderer dies an unnatural death.
Not to say it's Talmud, but "talmud" means "study" as in Torah/bible study. So I don't understand the anathema to "Torah study." And when you study the Torah on this matter, it can only be logically drawn that Lamech killed Cain, and Tubal-Cain, the only two individuals who legally qualify for such an action to have happened to them and for the Torah to take pains to describe such in the fewest words possible, leaving the reader to figure it out based on the clues and logic they present.
The entirety of the Torah must be taken and understood in order to understand just one part of it. That is its design. That is truly its divinely inspired essence and the root of its structure. Take even just one tittle out, and you have destroyed the entire meaning and application/understanding of Torah. Thus everything that applies to a murderer in Torah, applies to Cain. Thus any consequences that befall him, is explained later in the Torah that describes what happens to someone who is not convicted by two witnesses but is still guilty by Heaven for murder. It all connects. It all relates. The Torah is a self extracting archive of teaching of what is right and wrong. It explains itself. We don't have to conjecture. This is true Torah study.
The same as that as found in most Orthodox Jewish commentaries. I don't find much to differ.What is your interpretaton of Lamech's utterances in the "song of the sword" ?
Because everything in the earth corrupted itself. Not even the animals were without fault.
... Only those prone to lawbreaking need the law spelled out.
Very succinct, dont bother wrapping it I'll take it as is, now I have something beautiful to add to my repertoire, thanks Pat!
How does everything in the earth corrupt itself? What did the animals do wrong?
I have brought this up before. The waters stood out to me so I share what I have found.I thoroughly enjoy your post.
But being brought back to Yeshua's Words. Grace is given. Is it possible that Good and Evil perpetuated here in Cain and Able?
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
For me this is Cain. "Murderer from the beginning".
You have the seed of the serpent and the seed of Eve at enmity
Curses and Blessings.
Yeshua/Jesus is the School Master.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent: 'Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle, and from among all beasts of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.' {S}
17 And unto Adam He said: 'Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying: Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Cain brought forth the fruit of the ground? The ground was cursed right?
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering;
Message to Cain
7 If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door; and unto thee is its desire, but thou mayest rule over it.'
Yeshua/Jesus is the Word.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
And in the Beginning the Waters were Divided.
Was Yeshua/Jesus Revealing something?
Through out the Torah There is a Well to Water the flock.
Why the Salt to dip into?I have brought this up before. The waters stood out to me so I share what I have found.
So maybe there is way to understand further scripture with comparative context to the Torah.
Bitter then Sweet.
Psalm 46King James Version (KJV)
46 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.
4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
8 Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
Psalms Chapter 65 תְּהִלִּים
א לַמְנַצֵּחַ מִזְמוֹר, לְדָוִד שִׁיר. 1 For the Leader. A Psalm. A Song of David.
ב לְךָ דֻמִיָּה תְהִלָּה אֱלֹהִים בְּצִיּוֹן; וּלְךָ, יְשֻׁלַּם-נֶדֶר. 2 Praise waiteth for Thee, O God, in Zion; and unto Thee the vow is performed.
ג שֹׁמֵעַ תְּפִלָּה-- עָדֶיךָ, כָּל-בָּשָׂר יָבֹאוּ. 3 O Thou that hearest prayer, unto Thee doth all flesh come.
ד דִּבְרֵי עֲוֹנֹת, גָּבְרוּ מֶנִּי; פְּשָׁעֵינוּ, אַתָּה תְכַפְּרֵם. 4 The tale of iniquities is too heavy for me; as for our transgressions, Thou wilt pardon them.
ה אַשְׁרֵי, תִּבְחַר וּתְקָרֵב-- יִשְׁכֹּן חֲצֵרֶיךָ:
נִשְׂבְּעָה, בְּטוּב בֵּיתֶךָ; קְדֹשׁ, הֵיכָלֶךָ. 5 Happy is the man whom Thou choosest, and bringest near, that he may dwell in Thy courts; {N}
may we be satisfied with the goodness of Thy house, the holy place of Thy temple!
ו נוֹרָאוֹת, בְּצֶדֶק תַּעֲנֵנוּ-- אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׁעֵנוּ;
מִבְטָח כָּל-קַצְוֵי-אֶרֶץ, וְיָם רְחֹקִים. 6 With wondrous works dost Thou answer us in righteousness, O God of our salvation; {N}
Thou the confidence of all the ends of the earth, and of the far distant seas;
ז מֵכִין הָרִים בְּכֹחוֹ; נֶאְזָר, בִּגְבוּרָה. 7 Who by Thy strength settest fast the mountains, who art girded about with might;
ח מַשְׁבִּיחַ, שְׁאוֹן יַמִּים--שְׁאוֹן גַּלֵּיהֶם; וַהֲמוֹן לְאֻמִּים. 8 Who stillest the roaring of the seas, the roaring of their waves, and the tumult of the peoples;
ט וַיִּירְאוּ, יֹשְׁבֵי קְצָוֹת--מֵאוֹתֹתֶיךָ; מוֹצָאֵי בֹקֶר וָעֶרֶב תַּרְנִין. 9 So that they that dwell in the uttermost parts stand in awe of Thy signs; Thou makest the outgoings of the morning and evening to rejoice.
י פָּקַדְתָּ הָאָרֶץ וַתְּשֹׁקְקֶהָ, רַבַּת תַּעְשְׁרֶנָּה-- פֶּלֶג אֱלֹהִים, מָלֵא מָיִם;
תָּכִין דְּגָנָם, כִּי-כֵן תְּכִינֶהָ. 10 Thou hast remembered the earth, and watered her, greatly enriching her, with the river of God that is full of water; {N}
Thou preparest them corn, for so preparest Thou her.
יא תְּלָמֶיהָ רַוֵּה, נַחֵת גְּדוּדֶהָ; בִּרְבִיבִים תְּמֹגְגֶנָּה, צִמְחָהּ תְּבָרֵךְ. 11 Watering her ridges abundantly, settling down the furrows thereof, Thou makest her soft with showers; Thou blessest the growth thereof.
יב עִטַּרְתָּ, שְׁנַת טוֹבָתֶךָ; וּמַעְגָּלֶיךָ, יִרְעֲפוּן דָּשֶׁן. 12 Thou crownest the year with Thy goodness; and Thy paths drop fatness.
יג יִרְעֲפוּ, נְאוֹת מִדְבָּר; וְגִיל, גְּבָעוֹת תַּחְגֹּרְנָה. 13 The pastures of the wilderness do drop; and the hills are girded with joy.
יד לָבְשׁוּ כָרִים, הַצֹּאן-- וַעֲמָקִים יַעַטְפוּ-בָר;
יִתְרוֹעֲעוּ, אַף-יָשִׁירוּ. 14 The meadows are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; {N}
they shout for joy, yea, they sing. {P}
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