What happened to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

One must also consider the actual pronunciation of the words 'Good And Evil' as it is pronounced in a Hebrew dialect טובורע 'tuberou(s)', tubers like potatoes, carrots, etc., which never to my knowledge have seeds, but 'eyes', and are somewhat 'naked' in appearance like roots without a bark.


[edited, errassed ginger smh]

For the sake of accuracy... potatoes have seeds.. preference is to use the tubers.

It brings tears to my eyes when I think of Cain's Zealous frustration over his brother slaying the lamb, and how Abel was only trying to follow his brother's lead.

All Cain could see was, his brother murdered a precious innocent, and valuable living being, and to make it worse, Abel got the notion from him.

Heaven was שע shocked to see what Abel did,
and he quickly received loving attention for his inappropriate inclinations, which I wish our current justice systems would pick up on instead of their Cain-like responses.

The way I see it, Abel loved his brother so much, and felt so bad for what he had did, that when he re entered the Kingdom as Seth, and begot children, he, and his descendants continued to follow Cain's example by naming their children after Cain's children.

Even though Cain missinterpreted heaven's response, and failed to see the justice in mercy, and the priority, and need for attentiveness, and was harsh with his eye for an eye judgement.

He was not condemned to death, but exiled from the face of the Rock & Consuming Fire, forgiven and still loved by his brother Abel- Seth.

The most difficult pill to get anyone to swallow is, Elohym kills, and makes alive, meaning, yes there is a resurrection, and yes, it was He who said the following that found Cain willing to be an instrument of cruelity in His hand.

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence comes." [Matthew 18:7]

As the Tree has a Crown. Crown of the jewels of Life. And then a Pearl comes to mind.

pinacled said:

As the Tree has a Crown. Crown of the jewels of Life. And then a Pearl comes to mind.

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תעטרהו והדר וכבוד

"...You have Crowned him with K'bowd, and H'dar..."

כבוד K'bowd = Glory, Honor, Laurel

הדר H'dar = Honor, Glory, The Mother of Pearl

Looks like you might have something there, if you would have never mentioned it I would have missed this, thank you!

Laureate said:

תעטרהו והדר וכבוד

"...You have Crowned him with K'bowd, and H'dar..."

כבוד K'bowd = Glory, Honor, Laurel

הדר H'dar = Honor, Glory, The Mother of Pearl

Looks like you might have something there, if you would have never mentioned it I would have missed this, thank you!

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Thank you also. I can't take credit for the inspiration given by the Holy Spirit.
With fellowship so much is given and learned for each members growth.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Lulav said:

The Torah which is called the Tree of Life is 'dressed' in the synagogue and then a silver or if can be afford, gold crown is placed upon it.

Also on the tallit is what some call a collar but it is an atarah, a crown which carries the blessing and that part is to be place upon the forehead when praying.
Some are very fancy, like this one.

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Wow, awesome....

Laureate said:

It brings tears to my eyes when I think of Cain's Zealous frustration over his brother slaying the lamb, and how Abel was only trying to follow his brother's lead.

All Cain could see was, his brother murdered a precious innocent, and valuable living being, and to make it worse, Abel got the notion from him.

Heaven was שע shocked to see what Abel did,
and he quickly received loving attention for his inappropriate inclinations, which I wish our current justice systems would pick up on instead of their Cain-like responses.

The way I see it, Abel loved his brother so much, and felt so bad for what he had did, that when he re entered the Kingdom as Seth, and begot children, he, and his descendants continued to follow Cain's example by naming their children after Cain's children.

Even though Cain missinterpreted heaven's response, and failed to see the justice in mercy, and the priority, and need for attentiveness, and was harsh with his eye for an eye judgement.

He was not condemned to death, but exiled from the face of the Rock & Consuming Fire, forgiven and still loved by his brother Abel- Seth.

The most difficult pill to get anyone to swallow is, Elohym kills, and makes alive, meaning, yes there is a resurrection, and yes, it was He who said the following that found Cain willing to be an instrument of cruelity in His hand.

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence comes." [Matthew 18:7]

Click to expand...

From my studies:

Cain was the firstborn, and thus the High Priest of G-d Most High. He was therefore responsible for bringing the first fruit offering on Bikkurim. He didn't bring firstfruits on Bikkurim (First Fruits). Havel though did his part and sacrificed the first (in contrast to Cain's lack of first fruits) of his flock, which I surmise was either a free will offering itself, or was more likely the daily tamid (continual) offering (the morning lamb in this case), and thus did what was right for his part of the service of that day. His brother Cain may also have had something already against his brother prior to his service, and since he brought an offering that was not only not a firstfruit, but also had something against his brother, his offering was rejected on two counts. He never reconciled with his brother. The dispute may have had something to do with the identity of who was the Messiah between them both, and this may have led Cain to not offer up the firstfruits on Bikkurim, perhaps thinking he himself would literally be accepted as the firstfruit (of Adam and Chavah as the "man" aka Messiah that Chavah hoped he was). But since he was rejected, he realized he was not the Messiah. That only left Havel as the only living candidate. Thus providing a motive for him to kill him on that same day, to see if Havel, as the Messiah, would rise to life and defeat the Serpent as prophesied to their mother Chavah. When HaShem questions him about where his brother is, he is perhaps hoping that HaShem will respond to his "am I my brother's keeper" aka "aren't you the one who keeps Messiah?" But rather than hastening the advent of the Messianic age, he instead realizes by G-d's rebuke that he's not only committed murder, but that now his destiny is to die by murder per the Torah's instruction "he who sheds blood...". This leaves him wondering what options there may be remaining for the advent of Messiah, now that he knows he is not the Messiah, nor his brother who remains dead. So he immediately sets out to build a city, and raise descendents in the hope that someone in his line will be Messiah. It is then that Adam and Chava have Seth, but seeing as how Seth has children, and the prophecy is that Messiah will not have children himself, at that time, men began to either "profane the name of the L-rd" or "call upon the name of the L-rd" ie to look for Messiah. Of course, those who profaned outnumbered more those who called (less than a minyan of righteous people on Earth), leading to the Flood.

Josephus said:

From my studies:

Cain was the firstborn, and thus the High Priest of G-d Most High. He was therefore responsible for bringing the first fruit offering on Bikkurim. He didn't bring firstfruits on Bikkurim (First Fruits).

Havel though did his part and sacrificed the first (in contrast to Cain's lack of first fruits) of his flock, which I surmise was either a free will offering itself, or was more likely the daily tamid (continual) offering (the morning lamb in this case), and thus did what was right for his part of the service of that day.

His brother Cain may also have had something already against his brother prior to his service, and since he brought an offering that was not only not a firstfruit, but also had something against his brother, his offering was rejected on two counts. He never reconciled with his brother.

The dispute may have had something to do with the identity of who was the Messiah between them both, and this may have led Cain to not offer up the firstfruits on Bikkurim, perhaps thinking he himself would literally be accepted as the firstfruit (of Adam and Chavah as the "man" aka Messiah that Chavah hoped he was). But since he was rejected, he realized he was not the Messiah.

That only left Havel as the only living candidate. Thus providing a motive for him to kill him on that same day, to see if Havel, as the Messiah, would rise to life and defeat the Serpent as prophesied to their mother Chavah.

When HaShem questions him about where his brother is, he is perhaps hoping that HaShem will respond to his "am I my brother's keeper" aka "aren't you the one who keeps Messiah?" But rather than hastening the advent of the Messianic age, he instead realizes by G-d's rebuke that he's not only committed murder, but that now his destiny is to die by murder per the Torah's instruction "he who sheds blood...". This leaves him wondering what options there may be remaining for the advent of Messiah, now that he knows he is not the Messiah, nor his brother who remains dead. So he immediately sets out to build a city, and raise descendants in the hope that someone in his line will be Messiah.

It is then that Adam and Chava have Seth, but seeing as how Seth has children, and the prophecy is that Messiah will not have children himself, at that time, men began to either "profane the name of the L-rd" or "call upon the name of the L-rd" ie to look for Messiah. Of course, those who profaned outnumbered more those who called (less than a minyan of righteous people on Earth), leading to the Flood.

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Interesting but easier to read when it is broken up into paragraphs like this.

Lulav said:

That is very interesting to read, especially the part about the looking for the Redeemer so soon from the prophecy and I'm sure that it is one layer laid down in Genesis, but I wonder how within that scenario you find reason for all the animals and birds and creeping things to have to die as well?

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Because everything in the earth corrupted itself. Not even the animals were without fault.

Laureate said:

It brings tears to my eyes when I think of Cain's Zealous frustration over his brother slaying the lamb, and how Abel was only trying to follow his brother's lead.

Click to expand...

Was that extended fiction from the Koran, because it wasn't part of any normal understanding of the biblical account?

Cain brought an unworthy sacrifice to Yahweh. What made it unworthy, the bible doesn't say. Most likely it wasn't his first and best fruits. Abel was favored for his sacrifice, which made Cain jealous to the point of madness. Why did Cain live? Death was still new to people. Yahweh did not want to harden them against it yet.

pat34lee said:

Was that extended fiction from the Koran, because it wasn't part of any normal understanding of the biblical account?

Cain brought an unworthy sacrifice to Yahweh. What made it unworthy, the bible doesn't say. Most likely it wasn't his first and best fruits. Abel was favored for his sacrifice, which made Cain jealous to the point of madness. Why did Cain live? Death was still new to people. Yahweh did not want to harden them against it yet.

Click to expand...

Cain lived because there were no witnesses who could testify against him, per Torah law which requires at least two vetted witnesses in order to convict someone of murder and thus make such a man condemned to die by execution. In the case of a murderer who murders and there are not enough witnesses to convict him, or he is found not guilty when he's really guilty, the Torah prescribes that such a man will die by the hand of Heaven... ie an unnatural death. In the case of Cain, this destiny came when his great great great grandson Lamech killed him by accident during a hunting trip with his son Tubal-Cain. Jewish tradition records this was possible because Lamech could not see very well, and had to rely on Tubal-Cain's instructions to fire off an arrow while they both thought they were hunting prey. It turned out it was their patriarch Cain, and in his grief, Lamech clapped his hands together, but being nearly blind and so fast was his clasp, that it caught his unsuspecting son Tubal-Cain's head in the force of it, and Tubal-Cain also died. Two accidental killings in a row - first his great great great grandfather, and then his son (the "man" and the "young man" mentioned in the text). No wonder he called upon G-d's protection against the avenger of blood for manslaughter, multipled twice - 7 times 7 = 49. And since no accident is coincidental, it is understood from this Torah teaching/context that Tubal-Cain died an unnatural death because he too committed murder - the murder of Cain - meaning he knew what his father Lamech was aiming at.

Lulav said:

Laureate! Great to see you again. I have been trying to digest your last two posts, quite profound. It is quite a puzzle especially with all the input, but certainly worth ascribing to achieve.

True and False.

Same as Messiah and AntiMessiah (meaning instead of)

It also brings to mind the first two children. One Good seed and one Bad Seed. But coming from the same source.

I more and more see a contest of epic proportions that is inconceivable for us to mostly understand. One huge Chess game.

One good, one evil one white, one black, but each has the same 'playing pieces' that look exactly alike.

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I missed you כבוד guys so much, I've tried to log in numerous times, but it just was not happening, we both have been going through some healing, and with a little time out enforcement from heaven, I was able to focus on that.

Yea, you have to pardon some of that tail wagging, a good portion of it is involuntary, you start off with sharing something you came into the knowledge of, next thing you know, you start receiving again, and processing thoughts in an open forum (i.e. thinking out loud), before you can circumcise, and edit the information, the result definitely calls for scrutinization.

It is k'bode (deep), but they still urinate on the shallow side of the pool, besides it's not as murky or crowded on the k'bode side, I love visiting the buggar eating side, they are more adorable than I can ever hope to be, but if I stay there to long, my predator instincts start to itch, and when the moon is full....I go fishing....as if it were without a license, I flash my credentials, but the denominational police have never seen a real badge from heaven before, and with all the perpetraters out there, can you blame them for not taking a chance? No! But we can cite them for not knowing how to authenticate.

See, it's happening again, run away train, move the children to safety, it's all good fun till someone gets offended, or the train jumps track, and...well, you know how it goes.

"One True, and one False" I like the choice of word 'False' over 'Lie' because the word 'false' implys a direct relationship with 'Truth', whereas a 'Lie' only appears to have nothing to do with the Truth, when it is in actuality the Truth that it is speaking evil of, twisting, or otherwise missrepresenting.

I love the parallel you presented, but now consider this, if Seth/Shet was (counted as his name suggests) 'Instead', then my logic presumes that Havel was Cain's 'Instead' standing by 'just in case', like a tree of knowledge of good and evil (on) 'stand (ing) by', that would mean that Cain was Adam's first 'stand by' to stand is his stead, in the office of Israel, just as Adam, (and Moshe), stood in the office of Elohym.

In essence all of the sons of Seth are Anointed, but what manifests is dependent upon our אמן faith as a second witness, because it is the difference of true אמן Faith, and our lack of אמן Faith that Elohym is subject to hand us over to, (3-2=1), the fruit borne represents the (as if it were a) third witness, because it is the demonstration of our faith, the two should be one, thus we strive to align/justify the two, but more important than walking our talk, is to talk The Walk, to know that we comprehend the instructions apropriately before we run off with it.

Today we deal with individuals who demonstrate both forms of evil, רע, and עול, both 'immature babes', and 'spoiled rotten', which can be tricky, the immature just need loving guidance, but the spoiled need a taste of deprivatey to learn the value of appreciation, but often times the immature babe receives the deprivation, and the spoiled rotten gets the loving guidence that it still doesn't know how to appreciate.

Bad seed, to me means bad children, who happen to be made of clay, and are programable with the intercession of competent אמן 'foster parenting' of אמן Faith.

Which of course will never happen just as long as they are dependant on their own demise, thus intercession is necissary until such propensities have been exhausted entirely.

I stand in awe of the puzzle everyday, from heavens perspective, the object of this chess game, is to not let us win by cheating, or by them giving us the answers alone, but by getting us to desire to know, and affording us the time to come to a harmonic agreement with the Truth with what we have been given.

"One black, and one white" I just so happen to be born of two Laurels (Larry, and Laurie), one black, and one white in the hieght of our nations racial conflict, and when they pulled me out of the womb they named me 'Steven' (a Crown), thus (name wise anyway) I am a Laureate, a wreath woven from sprigs of כבוד Laurel.

Now whether or not I live up to the name bestowed upon me when I made my debut into this world rising between a pair of Myrtles, this I do know I enjoy the life of psalms one, in that, I am a Laurel tree that was planted in a LEE (lit. a meadow, grass growing beside a course of water), seeing how L•E•E are the initials of both of my parents name, that aspect of my name is being lived up to, and it has been an כבוד honor, thus far.

I can tell you with all certainty, I know that I am not H'meshiach, though heaven did inform me early on in my calling that many would presume that I am, notwithstanding, he dwells within me, for he dwells within all the living sons of Seth.

However, like the David referred to in Ezekiel 37 I too am formed of two sticks representing two nations, and can not choose a side, but see no other option but to incline to reconcile the two, as the word comes through me precept upon precept, etc., as the Crown of Glory mentioned in Isaiah 28 is also expected to do.

My new signature is a riddle whose answer pretty much sizes up for me, what I believe to be one of my most treasured attributes...

whatisthebaytreeknownfor? what is debate reknown for?

If one were to repeat either question fast enough, running the words together as one who is speaking pidgin sooner or later they would find them self asking the alternate question.

Debate is what lawyers do, their goal is to present a depiction of truth with a reasoning that prevails over the reasoning view points presented by an opposing lawyer, and thus these two opposing forces go back and forth until they have exhausted their testimonies, and present a closing arguement, before a jury and a judge that they may carefully weigh the merits of the case in dispute, and award a descision.

Thus, what is debate reknown for? It is renown for presenting evidence, and testimonies before a judge, and jury to help them make an important Decision.

What is the bay tree known for? Well it was known for more than just crowning victors of various contest, for while Israel was turning to the Crown of Glory resting upon Aaron's head concerning divine answers, solutions, and decisions, the Greeks were seeking the same from the Del-Phi-aN Oracle, as the Romans would turn to their Poet Laureate;

Thus, the one answer that best satisfies both questions is, Both the Bay tree, and the Debate (of lawyers) is (re)known for settling disputes between opposing forces with no respect of person to present and up hold Truth, and Justice.

Of course we were just children then, yet, can you believe a couple of my siblings presented the question to me, 'When the (final) battle between the whites and the blacks breaks out, which side are you going to choose?

I looked at my cinnamon complexion, and knew that predjudice people always favor their own, and the hatred that existed between these two peoples was the only thing that could initiate such a final battle, and while on one hand such a battle had nothing to do with me, on the other hand it had everything to do with me, seeing how I am descended from both peoples.

My poor siblings did not realize I do not have any Real choice in the matter, the decision has already been made for me, I choose cinnamon (which happens to be a laurel tree), so I hope you like it spicey.

visionary said:

For the sake of accuracy... potatoes have seeds.. preference is to use the tubers.

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I love it when the Most high uses You to correct me, it just makes me want to swerve into another lane just so I can be pulled over and cited by you, I truley adore you.

Didn't know that about the potatoes, though I know bananas that are not hybrid have seeds the size of good n plenty (candy).

Josephus said:

From my studies:

Cain was the firstborn, and thus the High Priest of G-d Most High. He was therefore responsible for bringing the first fruit offering on Bikkurim. He didn't bring firstfruits on Bikkurim (First Fruits). Havel though did his part and sacrificed the first (in contrast to Cain's lack of first fruits) of his flock, which I surmise was either a free will offering itself, or was more likely the daily tamid (continual) offering (the morning lamb in this case), and thus did what was right for his part of the service of that day. His brother Cain may also have had something already against his brother prior to his service, and since he brought an offering that was not only not a firstfruit, but also had something against his brother, his offering was rejected on two counts. He never reconciled with his brother. The dispute may have had something to do with the identity of who was the Messiah between them both, and this may have led Cain to not offer up the firstfruits on Bikkurim, perhaps thinking he himself would literally be accepted as the firstfruit (of Adam and Chavah as the "man" aka Messiah that Chavah hoped he was). But since he was rejected, he realized he was not the Messiah. That only left Havel as the only living candidate. Thus providing a motive for him to kill him on that same day, to see if Havel, as the Messiah, would rise to life and defeat the Serpent as prophesied to their mother Chavah. When HaShem questions him about where his brother is, he is perhaps hoping that HaShem will respond to his "am I my brother's keeper" aka "aren't you the one who keeps Messiah?" But rather than hastening the advent of the Messianic age, he instead realizes by G-d's rebuke that he's not only committed murder, but that now his destiny is to die by murder per the Torah's instruction "he who sheds blood...". This leaves him wondering what options there may be remaining for the advent of Messiah, now that he knows he is not the Messiah, nor his brother who remains dead. So he immediately sets out to build a city, and raise descendents in the hope that someone in his line will be Messiah. It is then that Adam and Chava have Seth, but seeing as how Seth has children, and the prophecy is that Messiah will not have children himself, at that time, men began to either "profane the name of the L-rd" or "call upon the name of the L-rd" ie to look for Messiah. Of course, those who profaned outnumbered more those who called (less than a minyan of righteous people on Earth), leading to the Flood.

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Excellent sumarization concerning a Freewill offering, I would suspect the same given the proposed circumstances, for any time I hear someone try to use the 'God gave us all free will' line they read in no biblical book, chapter ∅ verse ∅, I reply...

It was not given to us, we took it upon our selves when we ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil to not rely on the will of Elohym, but to rely on (as if it were) our own will, thus the Freewill offering in my opinion should be the first sacrifice any one makes, to give one's ability to rely on one's self back, by leaning not unto our own understanding.

I love the way this reads...

"...So immediately he Set(s) out to build a city, and raise descendents in the hope that someone in his line will be Messiah.it is then that Adam, and Chava have Seth...

pat34lee said:

Was that extended fiction from the Koran, because it wasn't part of any normal understanding of the biblical account?

Cain brought an unworthy sacrice to Yahweh. What made it unworthy, the bible doesn't say. Most likely it wasn't his first and best fruits. Abel was favored for his sacrifice, which made Cain jealous to the point of madness. Why did Cain live? Death was still new to people. Yahweh did not want to harden them against it yet.

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Hey Pat! No never read the Koran, but we do know how Elohym feels about one who slays a lamb when we read Isaiah 66, which sounds far from a worthy sacrifice.

The scripture says that Ea'huah had שע which is a word that expresses 'dismay, and shock' (kjv transl. 'respect'), and is translated as 'dismay' elsewhere in the scriptures, please consult Strongs #8159

I believe Havel's sacrifice was justified from on high, not by Havel, for his sacrifice, was just that, a Real Sacrifice, I believe Cain's offering would have been acceptable if sin would have never entered the picture, but sin did enter the picture, and a price had to be paid, Cain didn't want to do it, and Havel was willing.

For all I know, Havel was the intended lamb Sacrifice all along, and Cain was in Abraham's shoes, but couldn't bring himself to slay his brother until (something like what Josephus shared from his studies), it became a threat to his birthright.

No body in their right mind should offer a scrafice that is a pleasure to perform, it defeats the purpose.

Josephus said:

Cain lived because there were no witnesses who could testify against him, per Torah law which requires at least two vetted witnesses in order to convict someone of murder and thus make such a man condemned to die by execution. In the case of a murderer who murders and there are not enough witnesses to convict him, or he is found not guilty when he's really guilty, the Torah prescribes that such a man will die by the hand of Heaven... ie an unnatural death. In the case of Cain, this destiny came when his great great great grandson Lamech killed him by accident during a hunting trip with his son Tubal-Cain. Jewish tradition records this was possible because Lamech could not see very well, and had to rely on Tubal-Cain's instructions to fire off an arrow while they both thought they were hunting prey. It turned out it was their patriarch Cain, and in his grief, Lamech clapped his hands together, but being nearly blind and so fast was his clasp, that it caught his unsuspecting son Tubal-Cain's head in the force of it, and Tubal-Cain also died. Two accidental killings in a row - first his great great great grandfather, and then his son (the "man" and the "young man" mentioned in the text). No wonder he called upon G-d's protection against the avenger of blood for manslaughter, multipled twice - 7 times 7 = 49. And since no accident is coincidental, it is understood from this Torah teaching/context that Tubal-Cain died an unnatural death because he too committed murder - the murder of Cain - meaning he knew what his father Lamech was aiming at.

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Awesome!