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What happened to SkyWriting?

Papias

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While I wouldn't call him a "worthy opponent" for you (see my .sig, below), he is quite active, as you can see by using the "search" pulldown menu above and to the right, and then selecting his name, "posts" etc in "advanced search". He's been posting in another forum.

Have a fun day-

Papias
 
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Fascinated With God

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Well, he made one post in the Society > Physical & Life Sciences forum three days ago, but that is it.

And I disagree with your assessment of him. No YEC creationist has ever given me anywhere near as much of a run for my money as he has. I learned a lot by having to research a large amount of information to counter his assertions.
 
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Calminian

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...And I disagree with your assessment of him. No YEC creationist has ever given me anywhere near as much of a run for my money as he has. I learned a lot by having to research a large amount of information to counter his assertions.

I think someone may be drinking too much of his own kook-aid. From what I've seen, you're not the most eloquent representatives of TE, in fact have offered some pretty poor arguments for your views. Your command of the text is astounding at times, and you offer up quite a few logical fallacies.

Now perhaps science is what you think makes the debater, but that's again a misunderstanding on your part about the nature of this debate.

The debate starts with the text. If you can't justify your rendering of the text, all arguments from science and other methodologies fail.

Now I'm sure SW is fantastic, I'm just saying, is it possible you've over estimated the league you belong in?
 
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Fascinated With God

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I think someone may be drinking too much of his own kook-aid. From what I've seen, you're not the most eloquent representatives of TE, in fact have offered some pretty poor arguments for your views. Your command of the text is astounding at times, and you offer up quite a few logical fallacies.

Now perhaps science is what you think makes the debater, but that's again a misunderstanding on your part about the nature of this debate.

The debate starts with the text. If you can't justify your rendering of the text, all arguments from science and other methodologies fail.

Now I'm sure SW is fantastic, I'm just saying, is it possible you've over estimated the league you belong in?
Well far be it for me to complement a creationist without receiving a haughty and condescending reply. I think in your case the disagreement has more to do with lack of manners than with knoweldge of either theology or science.
 
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Calminian

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Well far be it for me to complement a creationist without receiving a haughty and condescending reply. I think in your case the disagreement has more to do with lack of manners than with knoweldge of either theology or science.

Sorry, couldn't resist noticing the self admiration in the OP. The idea that only one guy has given you a "run for you money" while the rest cowered from your intellectual dominance was a bit too enticing. Thought I would just offer moderately alternative perspective.
 
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SkyWriting

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While I wouldn't call him a "worthy opponent" for you (see my .sig, below), he is quite active, as you can see by using the "search" pulldown menu above and to the right, and then selecting his name, "posts" etc in "advanced search". He's been posting in another forum.

Have a fun day-

Papias

I've learned from a number of sources to punt first.
A number of the most successful people in the world use the
Ready - Fire - Aim system. I'm working with a business incubator
here in town and we're setting up a program using that very
method as part of a business growth program.
But if you want to try and ridicule it, you keep at it Joe!

images


Ready, Fire, Aim: | Download Ready, Fire, Aim

http://www.forbes.com/right-times-to-be-a-ready-fire-aim-entrepreneur/






I've mentioned, I work FT, college FT, and I'm in talks getting
the incubator going in my "spare" time. Lucky they have room
I can study.
 
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mark kennedy

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Hey Skywriting,

I was browsing your blog entries. I thought you might find this quote of interest judging from some of the things you said:

Through multiplication upon multiplication of facts, information, theories and hypotheses, it is science itself that is leading mankind from single absolute truths to multiple, indeterminate, relative ones. (Robert Pirsig)​

Just throwing that out there.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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SkyWriting

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Hey Skywriting,

I was browsing your blog entries. I thought you might find this quote of interest judging from some of the things you said:

Through multiplication upon multiplication of facts, information, theories and hypotheses, it is science itself that is leading mankind from single absolute truths to multiple, indeterminate, relative ones. (Robert Pirsig)​

Just throwing that out there.

Grace and peace,
Mark

That would be a quote from someone clueless about science. Science is: documenting observations and creating theories about those observations for one and only one purpose, so that others can accurately recreate the observations to get the same result and perhaps draw the same conclusion.

There is a hint of truth in that observations change reality, but that's not what Persig is suggesting. He is observing that the more garbage you throw in a bucket, the harder it is to find edible food in the bucket. Not that the edible food is gone. Just that it's harder to find and separate the steak and potatoes from the goo and have a pleasant meal.

From what I read about his life, he was always eating the goo and avoiding the task of identifying nutritious food.
 
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mark kennedy

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That would be a quote from someone clueless about science. Science is: documenting observations and creating theories about those observations for one and only one purpose, so that others can accurately recreate the observations to get the same result and perhaps draw the same conclusion.

There is a hint of truth in that observations change reality, but that's not what Persig is suggesting. He is observing that the more garbage you throw in a bucket, the harder it is to find edible food in the bucket. Not that the edible food is gone. Just that it's harder to find and separate the steak and potatoes from the goo and have a pleasant meal.

That's from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He was something of a child prodigy starting college in his mid-teens. What he is discussing is his failure at the university. He's just describing how at first he never got tired of a seemingly endless string of hypothesis that can be generated from a single fact. His problem wasn't with science per se I don't think but what we would call empirical testing. I think he was frustrated in his search for meaning and science isn't really designed to provide values, at least not the kind he was looking for.

It's just an interesting thought, nothing more.
 
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SkyWriting

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That's from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He was something of a child prodigy starting college in his mid-teens. What he is discussing is his failure at the university. He's just describing how at first he never got tired of a seemingly endless string of hypothesis that can be generated from a single fact. His problem wasn't with science per se I don't think but what we would call empirical testing. I think he was frustrated in his search for meaning and science isn't really designed to provide values, at least not the kind he was looking for.

It's just an interesting thought, nothing more.

And so he left school and then left society all together.
Robert M. Pirsig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The concern people show for others get's my attention.
Mr. Pirsig seems lost and not interesting. I tried to read
Zen once. I'd gladly be one of the 121 who found no value
and wouldn't publish his book.
 
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mark kennedy

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And so he left school and then left society all together.
Robert M. Pirsig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The concern people show for others get's my attention.
Mr. Pirsig seems lost and not interesting. I tried to read
Zen once. I'd gladly be one of the 121 who wouldn't publish
his book.

Well he went back later but he did have a nervous break down after something that happened at the University of Chicogo. The story is about him taking his son on a cross country motorcycle trip when he was starting to show signs of mental illness.

His depression left him catatonic and they had to give him electric shook or they were going to lose him. In addition to trying to sort out his son's problems he is also trying to remember who he was before. It has it's little gems, I always liked this one:

In the temple of science are many mansions -- and various indeed are they that dwell therein and the motives that have led them there.

Many take to science out of a joyful sense of superior intellectual power; science is their own special sport to which they look for vivid experience and the satisfaction of ambition; many others are to be found in the temple who have offered the products of their brains on this altar for purely utilitarian purposes. Were an angel of the Lord to come and drive all the people belonging to these two categories out of the temple, it would be noticeably emptier but there would still be some men of both present and past times left inside -- . If the types we have just expelled were the only types there were, the temple would never have existed any more than one can have a wood consisting of nothing but creepers -- those who have found favor with the angel -- are somewhat odd, uncommunicative, solitary fellows, really less like each other than the hosts of the rejected.

What has brought them to the temple -- no single answer will cover -- escape from everyday life, with its painful crudity and hopeless dreariness, from the fetters of one's own shifting desires. A finely tempered nature longs to escape from his noisy cramped surroundings into the silence of the high mountains where the eye ranges freely through the still pure air and fondly traces out the restful contours apparently built for eternity.

The passage is from a 1918 speech by a young German scientist named Albert Einstein.​

He eventually became a Buddhist and it's not a serious philosophical work. I've seen it in major libraries under 'Travel', that ought to tell you something. I do think the quote I originally shared with you emphasizes that limited use of science as epistemology and the need to find deeper answers elsewhere. Science is great at what it does but like all philosophy it has borders and boundaries. That's why I wish these scientific apologists would quit passing off their skepticism of Biblical doctrines like creation as scientific. It's more like a pretense then a standard of proof.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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SkyWriting

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Well he went back later but he did have a nervous break down after something that happened at the University of Chicogo. The story is about him taking his son on a cross country motorcycle trip when he was starting to show signs of mental illness.

His depression left him catatonic and they had to give him electric shook or they were going to lose him. In addition to trying to sort out his son's problems he is also trying to remember who he was before. It has it's little gems, I always liked this one:

In the temple of science are many mansions -- and various indeed are they that dwell therein and the motives that have led them there.

Many take to science out of a joyful sense of superior intellectual power; science is their own special sport to which they look for vivid experience and the satisfaction of ambition; many others are to be found in the temple who have offered the products of their brains on this altar for purely utilitarian purposes. Were an angel of the Lord to come and drive all the people belonging to these two categories out of the temple, it would be noticeably emptier but there would still be some men of both present and past times left inside -- . If the types we have just expelled were the only types there were, the temple would never have existed any more than one can have a wood consisting of nothing but creepers -- those who have found favor with the angel -- are somewhat odd, uncommunicative, solitary fellows, really less like each other than the hosts of the rejected.

What has brought them to the temple -- no single answer will cover -- escape from everyday life, with its painful crudity and hopeless dreariness, from the fetters of one's own shifting desires. A finely tempered nature longs to escape from his noisy cramped surroundings into the silence of the high mountains where the eye ranges freely through the still pure air and fondly traces out the restful contours apparently built for eternity.

The passage is from a 1918 speech by a young German scientist named Albert Einstein.​

He eventually became a Buddhist and it's not a serious philosophical work. I've seen it in major libraries under 'Travel', that ought to tell you something. I do think the quote I originally shared with you emphasizes that limited use of science as epistemology and the need to find deeper answers elsewhere. Science is great at what it does but like all philosophy it has borders and boundaries. That's why I wish these scientific apologists would quit passing off their skepticism of Biblical doctrines like creation as scientific. It's more like a pretense then a standard of proof.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I'm not to fond of him either.


I'll take a Christian like Farmer Dan any day over Einstein.

EFScheels.jpg

The Elegant Farmer :: Our History
 
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Papias

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Skywriting wrote:


I've learned from a number of sources to punt first.
A number of the most successful people in the world use the
Ready - Fire - Aim system. I'm working with a business incubator
here in town and we're setting up a program using that very
method as part of a business growth program.
But if you want to try and ridicule it, you keep at it Joe!

Thank you for responding without greater animosity than my post.

I agree that the ready-fire - aim approach can work in business (and sports too, for that matter).

However, that seems different to me than discussions of scientific reality (where one can simply be "wrong", as opposed to business or sports where one can be "not as good", and where quick action is often more important than being exactly right.). The ready-fire-aim approach seems also out of place in theology, where (I hope) we agree that there is an actual reality involved.

some thoughts. maybe not relevant to you.

Papias
 
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SkyWriting

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I agree that the ready-fire - aim approach can work in business (and sports too, for that matter).

However, that seems different to me than discussions of scientific reality (where one can simply be "wrong", as opposed to business or sports where one can be "not as good", and where quick action is often more important than being exactly right.). The ready-fire-aim approach seems also out of place in theology, where (I hope) we agree that there is an actual reality involved.

some thoughts. maybe not relevant to you.

Papias

In Science one makes some general observations then
formulates an opinion, then creates a theory to test,
then postulates a process to examine the facts to test
the theory. It's the ready-fire-aim approach as well. :thumbsup:

At least as far as the thought process goes.

Indeed God is not in charge of the natural world and
so requires faith first before action. Ready-Fire-Aim.
It depends on your definitions and viewpoint.
 
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Notedstrangeperson

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mark kennedy said:
Through multiplication upon multiplication of facts, information, theories and hypotheses, it is science itself that is leading mankind from single absolute truths to multiple, indeterminate, relative ones. (Robert Pirsig)

Hmm. That's an interesting quote. I might use that.
 
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