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What Happened to King Saul?

Stewartnz

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What Happened to King Saul?

“And the Philistines chased hard after Saul, and after his sons; and the Philistines slew... the sons of Saul. And the battle went very badly against Saul, and the archers hit him, and he was wounded by the archers.
Then Saul said to his armourbearer, Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it; lest these uncircumcised [Philistines] come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not do it; because he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise on the sword, and died.
So Saul died, and his three sons, and all his house died together.” (1Chron 10:2-6)

Having read the details of Saul’s death, is it a contradiction to say that God killed him?

It cannot be a contradiction, because the last two verses of the chapter says,

“So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he did not keep, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit [i.e. the witch of endor], to inquire of it;
And he inquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.” (1Chron 10:13-14)

In this instance we have the actual circumstances relating to Saul’s death. In the end it was a suicide. And yet it is nonetheless true that the Lord “slew him”.

So did God arrange certain events, in the same sense that David arranged certain events to kill Uriah (the husband of Bathsheba)?

To David, the word of God had been, “you have slain [Uriah] with the sword of the children of Ammon.” (2Sam 12:9) But did God slay Saul, effectively using the Philistine archers? And then, going on to overwhelm him with despair, did He finally drive him to suicide, so that He might pass the kingdom on to David? Some have reasoned this way, but this is far from right.

The truths relating to Saul’s death can be reconciled, and reconciled to the honor of God’s name. It is a broad study, yet I offer a brief outline of the principle that I believe operated, and continues to operate to this day.

In the days of Jeremiah, the Jews had effectively put God out of His Temple. The word of the Lord was, “I have forsaken Mine house, I have left My heritage; I have given the love of My soul into the hand of her enemy.” (Jer 12:7 margin)

The Lord was effectively shut out. He continued knocking at the door, gave warnings and pointed them to the path of safety, but day by day they were placing themselves further from His protection.

When God gives a beloved soul into the hands of an enemy, it is because that soul chooses to cut all lines of communication with God. Finally He must give [or release] him into the hands of the foe. So it was, I believe, with Saul.

_____________________

"He never lets go the hand of anyone, unless it is withdrawn." (7MR 160)

"God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself." (COL p.84)

And again,
"God destroys no man; but after a time the wicked are given up to the destruction they have wrought for themselves." (Youth’s Instructor, November 30, 1893)
 

EastCoastRemnant

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God cannot stop us from engaging in behaviour that can/will lead to our demise. Nor can He stop others from exercising their will against us. The concept of punishment, suffering and death is not an invention of God's but a result of the effects of sinful behaviour... either on our part or on someone elses.

Sometimes God can affect the outcome of a situation and He does, sometimes He choses not to and sometimes, because of the gift of free will, He can't.
 
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k4c

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God cannot stop us from engaging in behaviour that can/will lead to our demise. Nor can He stop others from exercising their will against us. The concept of punishment, suffering and death is not an invention of God's but a result of the effects of sinful behaviour... either on our part or on someone elses.

Sometimes God can affect the outcome of a situation and He does, sometimes He choses not to and sometimes, because of the gift of free will, He can't.

I've been thinking, does free will change for those who have been bought with a price?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I've been thinking, does free will change for those who have been bought with a price?


How so? We are always in danger of reverting to our own ways and falling away... this our choice everyday, either seek Him and live or seek self and perish.
 
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k4c

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How so? We are always in danger of reverting to our own ways and falling away... this our choice everyday, either seek Him and live or seek self and perish.

Could it be that the whole human race have been bought with a price and not just me as an individual?

Through one man, Adam, all die and through one man, Jesus, all will be made alive. One will be made alive at the first resurrection and one will be made alive at the second resurrection. Which resurrection we partake in is determined by our response to the gift of eternal life.
 
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Princessdi

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I like this thread k4c.

First God did not kill Saul. The laws, rules, statutes that God wants us to live by are thing that will better our lives. We will spare ourselves much grief. Sins, for the most part, carry their own consequences, and it is from these consequences that God wishes to save us. Saul made some serious errors including trying to kills the Lord's annointed sucessor to Saul's throne(IOW, trying to undermine God's authority) all the way to going to a witch when he wasn't hearing what he wanted from God. He was a victim of his own choices. simple.

Also, good answers on the free will. Folks choose to turn down free gifts all thet time
 
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Stewartnz

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Yeah great thread idea Stew:thumbsup:

Thank you Crib.

Saul "inquired not of the Lord: therefore He slew him".

Of course God says that His way of doing things is not the same as man's way. When God says He slays a man, the tendency is for people to equate His action with the 'common' idea, but this is not right. (As a fly goes to a rotten thing, so our minds can go to the worldly way.)

When God says that He destroyed the world in the flood, we naturally think that He pulled the proverbial plug and drowned the people. But God's work of destruction is a "strange act" -- not strange in the sense that it is uncommon or unusual for Him (because it is quite a common occurrence), but "strange" in the sense that His way is not the same as man's.

God destroys no man, in the way that we would naturally understand "destroying".

He never says, "If you don't do what I want, then I will kill you." Never.
 
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honorthesabbath

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I think that when the bible makes statements like this one about Saul and the Lord slaying him, I see Gods' wrath as Him merely giving the rebellious what they desire--freedom from His presence. And so the wrath of God is God withdrawing Him protection from the sinner and allowing the sinner to suffer the natural consequences of his rebellion.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I think that when the bible makes statements like this one about Saul and the Lord slaying him, I see Gods' wrath as Him merely giving the rebellious what they desire--freedom from His presence. And so the wrath of God is God withdrawing Him protection from the sinner and allowing the sinner to suffer the natural consequences of his rebellion.

Good observation... :thumbsup:
 
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Stewartnz

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I think that when the bible makes statements like this one about Saul and the Lord slaying him, I see Gods' wrath as Him merely giving the rebellious what they desire--freedom from His presence. And so the wrath of God is God withdrawing Him protection from the sinner and allowing the sinner to suffer the natural consequences of his rebellion.

I agree. And God withdraws His protection, not out of spite or any such thing, but only because He is effectively shut out.

God's attitude [through the ages] is perfectly expressed by Jesus, when He says,

"How often I would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, but you would not [let Me]."
 
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