What happened to all those people....

[weybourne1]

who were born, lived, and died before Jesus lived and died for our sins?

Would they have gone to hell?

 

[drich0150]

who were born, lived, and died before Jesus lived and died for our sins?

Would they have gone to hell?

All of those (God loving) people were looking foward to the comming of the messiah, and all of us since Jesus are looking back. In the same way those who Loved God looking forward, are saved by the same grace of all of us who are looking back.

 

[weybourne1]

I'm referring to the first homo sapiens who knew nothing of a 'god'.

 

[wlajoie74]

how do you know they knew nothing of a god

 

[weybourne1]

I don't know. OK so I'll rephrase: Anyone livign before Jesus' time who DIDN'T hold a belief in a god, what would happen to them when they die?

After asking a similar question in another post about people who have come and gone, lived their lives without ever hearing about Jesus' existence, and I was informed by members of the Christian faith that they would go to hell along with anyone who openly rejects god.

Is this not absolute madness?

What you're telling me, if I understand correctly, is that someone who lives a perfectly morally sound life will burn for eternity simply for being born and raised in a part of the world where they had never heard of Jesus???

That is what I'm getting at with this thread. What about all of the pre-Jesus humans who never heard the name, never knew of a 'coming messiah'? If they lived a perfectly moral life, why should they be condemned to hell for eternity?

 

[wlajoie74]

no, that is a falsity. i don't know where they got that from, but this is what the bible says in romans 2

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

the gentiles represent those without the law which of course was replaced by jesus' sacrifice.its basically saying that if you don't know the written law of God [or jesus] you will be judged according to the law written on your heart which all mankind has. in other words your concience. i particularly like verse 11 which states that God does not show favoritism, and verse 16 which clearly states that we all will be judged according to our secrets.

 

[weybourne1]

Wow! Thank you for that. I knew that there was something incorrect and unChristian-like telling people they will burn for eternity simply for not being born and raised in an area where the idea of a messiah (and one in particular) thrives!

That's what is so scary about religion: it is so open to interpretation that anyone can carry out acts of evil and still truly believe they are acting according to their god's will.

I like the verse where it says you will be judged by your conscience (or at least that was the interpretation you passed on that I agree with). It makes me feel better to know that I can live my life morally sound without having to bow down to (IMO) ridiculous rituals, so in other words to see that even if there is a god, he's cool with that.

And that is what I have always thought: if you lead a good life and do not harm anyone else, why would your only options be 1) Conform to Christianity or any other belief system, or 2) GO DIRECTLY TO HELL!

Thanks again for the post, Wlajoie, darn near made my day! (It's odd that my atheism is yet again reinforced by a passage from the bible! lol)

 

[wlajoie74]

Wow! Thank you for that. I knew that there was something incorrect and unChristian-like telling people they will burn for eternity simply for not being born and raised in an area where the idea of a messiah (and one in particular) thrives!

That's what is so scary about religion: it is so open to interpretation that anyone can carry out acts of evil and still truly believe they are acting according to their god's will.

I like the verse where it says you will be judged by your conscience (or at least that was the interpretation you passed on that I agree with). It makes me feel better to know that I can live my life morally sound without having to bow down to (IMO) ridiculous rituals, so in other words to see that even if there is a god, he's cool with that.

And that is what I have always thought: if you lead a good life and do not harm anyone else, why would your only options be 1) Conform to Christianity or any other belief system, or 2) GO DIRECTLY TO HELL!

Thanks again for the post, Wlajoie, darn near made my day! (It's odd that my atheism is yet again reinforced by a passage from the bible! lol)

ummmm......now you have misinterpreted the verses. your question was about those who have never heard the teachings of god. i'm pretty sure that you know the basic concepts of what it means to be christian, and that you have the opportunity to accept Him. if you refuse Him you will be judged accordingly.

romans 1

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.

if you see all the wonderful things He has given us and refuse to thank him and recognize his glory you will be judged accordingly. as far as the burning for eternity in hell thing goes i don't think you have to worry about that. just everlasting destruction and the loss of the chance to bask in His glory and love.

deuteronomy 4

29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

if you wholeheartedly put your self-serving attitude behind you and seek him with all you got he will reveal himself to you.

or not its up to you.

sorry if i burst your bubble.lol

 

[weybourne1]

I knew it was too good to be true! lol!

So to get it straight:

- never heard of Jesus, act good = Heaven

- never heard of Jesus, act poorly = Hell

- heard of Jesus, act good = Heaven

- heard of Jesus, act poorly = Hell

- heard of Jesus, but not convinced he is the truth = Hell?

Now in all fairness (given that I AM asking this on a Christian forum), the only verification that you have for any of this is the bible, correct?

 

[wlajoie74]

I knew it was too good to be true! lol!

So to get it straight:

- never heard of Jesus, act good = Heaven

- never heard of Jesus, act poorly = Hell

- heard of Jesus, act good = Heaven

- heard of Jesus, act poorly = Hell

- heard of Jesus, but not convinced he is the truth = Hell?

Now in all fairness (given that I AM asking this on a Christian forum), the only verification that you have for any of this is the bible, correct?

no, once again not hell. everlasting destruction. no more existance. end of the road. no chance of everlasting life. the concept of hell as you are thinking of it was created by the RCC its scriptual basis is shaky at very best.

yes, the only verification that i have for any of this that i can show you through the internet is the bible. considering you can't see what god has put in my heart and you have not recieved the visions that i have.

 

[ebia]

who were born, lived, and died before Jesus lived and died for our sins?

Would they have gone to hell?

Scripture is much more concerned with what God is doing and how he invites us to get involved than answering such questions in detail. It does make clear that certain figures are included in God's salvation (eg Abraham) but leaves the rest of the question open because it's not directly relevent to our situation.

 

[drich0150]

I'm referring to the first homo sapiens who knew nothing of a 'god'.

The first homo sapiens walk with God daily. So it would be a fair bet they knew him.