What gives you hope for the future of Catholicism?

[mmmcounts]

What gives you hope that average Catholics of the future will be more like liberal Catholics of today?

Put another way, what are some things from the past that indicate a progression of this sort? And if you don't mind, could you outline a connection or two between some of the things you'd like to see in the future and some of the progression you've seen in the past? If you could tell me why some of the things from the past tend to indicate a particular kind of progression in either the near or more-distant future, that would be absolutely perfect.

 

[BabyChristian22]

I suggest reading Romans chapter 1 of the Holy Bible.

 

[Number 6]

The march of history. Unfortunately, history marches slowly.

 

[rayodeluz]

I suggest reading Romans chapter 1 of the Holy Bible.

I suggest reading ALL of Romans so as nothing is taken out of context.

 

[Lily_Among_Thorns]

What gives you hope that average Catholics of the future will be more like liberal Catholics of today?

Put another way, what are some things from the past that indicate a progression of this sort? And if you don't mind, could you outline a connection or two between some of the things you'd like to see in the future and some of the progression you've seen in the past? If you could tell me why some of the things from the past tend to indicate a particular kind of progression in either the near or more-distant future, that would be absolutely perfect.

It is the Church that directs the average Catholic and there is nothing liberal about the Church. I don't see anything in the past or anything in the future that will change this. To most Catholics the Church is the Authority and I accept this. The Church has moral veracity and Catholics do not doubt this. So I don't see liberal theology creeping in ever unless the Church itself changes it's mind.

 

[Sonny1954]

Honestly, I see very little that is hopeful in the way of a Progressive Catholic Church, at least through this coming generation. I believe that within the next 10-20 years, the following changes will occur to diminish
the role of the Catholic laity:

• Mass will increasingly be in the unintelligble language (to most Catholics) of Latin
• Priests in greater number will say mass with their backs to the faithful, whose sole function will be to hear mass
• Catholics will be disallowed to receive communion in the hand because it is a "less reverent" posture than sticking one's tongue out
• As much as the priest shortage permits, lay ministers of the Eucharist will be phased out (perhaps to be replaced by Deacons)
• Individual Bishops will demand to know individual Catholics' positions on issues like abortion rights birth control before allowing them to receive communion
• Female altar servers will be actively discouraged and banned in some dioceses (they already are in some)
• No one will be allowed to touch the chalice except the priest

The clergy who insituted the reforms of Vatican II are aging and will be largely dead within the next 20 years. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have been actively undermining the reforms and the spirit of Vatican II. I believe the Catholic Church will remain in this reactionary tailspin for at least another 30 to 40 years. After that....who knows?

 

[Elfstone]

Actually, some of what gives me hope are what Sonny dreads.. return to Latin and all that.

One of the most Traditionalists I know is also one of the most forward-thinking progressives I know.
I don't see Traditionalism as necessarily entailing clericalism; quite the opposite, in fact.

I feel that the more seriously newer generations take their faith, the more they'll be apt to re-examine it and try to filter out some of the mess that's accumulated.

That, and the promise of Christ to never let His Church fall to the Gates of Hades. That alone makes me confident that in God's own good time, He'll lead the Church in a more progressive direction.

 

[TheDude28]

:

• Mass will increasingly be in the unintelligble language (to most Catholics) of Latin
• Priests in greater number will say mass with their backs to the faithful, whose sole function will be to hear mass
• Catholics will be disallowed to receive communion in the hand because it is a "less reverent" posture than sticking one's tongue out
• As much as the priest shortage permits, lay ministers of the Eucharist will be phased out (perhaps to be replaced by Deacons)
• Individual Bishops will demand to know individual Catholics' positions on issues like abortion rights birth control before allowing them to receive communion
• Female altar servers will be actively discouraged and banned in some dioceses (they already are in some)
• No one will be allowed to touch the chalice except the priest

These all give me hope. Also the seminaries I have visited the young men there training to become Priests are EXTREMELY traditional. I would say from what I have seen among young Priests and Religious that as this lib generation dies away and some one from the JPII generation becomes Pope 30-40 years or so away there will be a new council to correct the grievous modernist errors of Vatican II.

 

[Sonny1954]

My biggest source of hope for the Catholic Church is that the pendulum can only swing so far in one direction. Following a period of limited openness to the laity within Church leadership, we are now headed back firmly in the direction of a medieval divine-right monarchy. For progressive Catholics, this is a time of challenge and spiritual hardship. But nothing lasts forever. Who knows, the generation about to be born may grow into adult Catholics who wish to re-open the windows of the Vatican and breathe what Pope John XXIII called "fresh air" once again.

 

[TheCunctator]

Honestly, I see very little that is hopeful in the way of a Progressive Catholic Church, at least through this coming generation. I believe that within the next 10-20 years, the following changes will occur to diminish
the role of the Catholic laity:

• Mass will increasingly be in the unintelligble language (to most Catholics) of Latin
• Priests in greater number will say mass with their backs to the faithful, whose sole function will be to hear mass
• Catholics will be disallowed to receive communion in the hand because it is a "less reverent" posture than sticking one's tongue out
• As much as the priest shortage permits, lay ministers of the Eucharist will be phased out (perhaps to be replaced by Deacons)
• Individual Bishops will demand to know individual Catholics' positions on issues like abortion rights birth control before allowing them to receive communion
• Female altar servers will be actively discouraged and banned in some dioceses (they already are in some)
• No one will be allowed to touch the chalice except the priest

The clergy who insituted the reforms of Vatican II are aging and will be largely dead within the next 20 years. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have been actively undermining the reforms and the spirit of Vatican II. I believe the Catholic Church will remain in this reactionary tailspin for at least another 30 to 40 years. After that....who knows?

What a beautiful Catholic Church it would be if she returned to this!

 

[Sonny1954]

To each his own, my brother, God bless you. I grew up in that repressive pre-Vatican II Church. Had it been so beautiful, Blessed John XXIII would not have found it necessary to revive a dying Church.

 

[TheDude28]

To each his own, my brother, God bless you. I grew up in that repressive pre-Vatican II Church. Had it been so beautiful, Blessed John XXIII would not have found it necessary to revive a dying Church.

Hahahahaha A dying CHURCH! Take a look around bro the Church has been dying SINCE Vatican II. Before that heretical council there were full seminaries and full Churches. My diocese in 1960 ordained 35 Priests this Year 2, 2010 none 2009, 3. The Church I attend is half full at best. Wherever there is tradition the Churches are full. The seminary of the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter which celebrates the real Tridentine Mass turns men away. St Louis is also full thanks to Cardinal Burke. Yeah by their fruits thou shalt know them. Liberal dissident cafeteria Catholicism is dying, once the baby boomers go to that big Woodstock in the sky the Church wont have any liberals left.

 

[Catherineanne]

What gives you hope that average Catholics of the future will be more like liberal Catholics of today?

Put another way, what are some things from the past that indicate a progression of this sort? And if you don't mind, could you outline a connection or two between some of the things you'd like to see in the future and some of the progression you've seen in the past? If you could tell me why some of the things from the past tend to indicate a particular kind of progression in either the near or more-distant future, that would be absolutely perfect.

From my experience of the so called 'Liberal Catholic Church', the world can do without progression of this kind.

I am all for equality and inclusion, but frankly that is not what I have seen demonstrated in the LCC, or received from them, for that matter.

Lord deliver us from liberal catholicism.

 

[Dark_Lite]

From my experience of the so called 'Liberal Catholic Church', the world can do without progression of this kind.

I am all for equality and inclusion, but frankly that is not what I have seen demonstrated in the LCC, or received from them, for that matter.

Lord deliver us from liberal catholicism.

It should be noted that this particular forum is for Catholics of the liberal variety, not Christians who belong to the Liberal Catholic Church. This forum was specifically created for people who don't necessarily agree with everything in OBOB. In recent years, the forum's meaning has expanded a bit, apparently. But originally it was not for the LCC. STR was for that denomination since they fall under Old Catholicism.

 

[Sonny1954]

I am pleased that the anti-Vatican II Catholics are so content. Bless you. Just check your brains at the door. Mindlessly follow the orders of celibate old men who do not followthe rules themselves, and just let go.....May you find peace.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I am pleased that the anti-Vatican II Catholics are so content. Bless you. Just check your brains at the door. Mindlessly follow the orders of celibate old men who do not followthe rules themselves, and just let go.....May you find peace.

I'm not really sure who that's addressed to, but insulting an entire group of people by calling them all mindless is pretty low. I've noticed that pattern in your posts a lot. "Anti-Vatican II", "check your brains at the door", "mindlessly follow", and so on. A lot of rhetoric and ad hominems, but otherwise little substance.

 

[TheDude28]

I'm not really sure who that's addressed to, but insulting an entire group of people by calling them all mindless is pretty low. I've noticed that pattern in your posts a lot. "Anti-Vatican II", "check your brains at the door", "mindlessly follow", and so on. A lot of rhetoric and ad hominems, but otherwise little substance.

That tends to be the way cafeteria "catholics" act. They are scared because they know the tide is against them. So all they have left are nasty ad hominems.

 

[steve_bakr]

Honestly, I see very little that is hopeful in the way of a Progressive Catholic Church, at least through this coming generation. I believe that within the next 10-20 years, the following changes will occur to diminish
the role of the Catholic laity:


[*]Mass will increasingly be in the unintelligble language (to most Catholics) of Latin
[*]
[*]Priests in greater number will say mass with their backs to the faithful, whose sole function will be to hear mass
[*]
[*]Catholics will be disallowed to receive communion in the hand because it is a "less reverent" posture than sticking one's tongue out
[*]
[*]As much as the priest shortage permits, lay ministers of the Eucharist will be phased out (perhaps to be replaced by Deacons)
[*]
[*]Individual Bishops will demand to know individual Catholics' positions on issues like abortion rights birth control before allowing them to receive communion
[*]
[*]Female altar servers will be actively discouraged and banned in some dioceses (they already are in some)
[*]
[*]No one will be allowed to touch the chalice except the priest

The clergy who insituted the reforms of Vatican II are aging and will be largely dead within the next 20 years. Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI have been actively undermining the reforms and the spirit of Vatican II. I believe the Catholic Church will remain in this reactionary tailspin for at least another 30 to 40 years. After that....who knows?

From my observation, the Church is dependent on the laity to keep it going. The Church where I go utilizes, I think, as many as four lay ministers to assist with Communion. That is simply a manner of logistics. The priests I've observed are very uncomfortable when someone sticks their tongue out to receive the wafer; they try to administer the wafer without touching the tongue the way some people give a dollar to the homeless without touching their hand. There are hand sanitizers next to the altar. Also, it is the lay minister's job to finish off the last swill of wine leftover after Communion. A priest is only used to drinking out of his own chalice. All these little details are more important than you may initially realize--logistically, of course.

There is also the matter of enforcement. Almost an entire generation does not follow the ruling on birth control. One woman told me after her fifth child--the maximum number that can fit in her van--"This is it for me, I'm not having any more." (Logistics)

Also, almost an entire generation of Catholics are not going to Confession anymore (renamed Reconciliation by the Church). Question: Is it really wise to receive marital advice or advice about raising a family from someone who has no experience in either case? Is it really wise for the Church's policy on sexuality to be determined by eighty year-olds who don't remember what testosterone feels like? Can the Church really go back to a Mass that most people don't understand? Can the Church really return to the Middle Ages?.

Peace to all

 

[mark46]

The Catholic Church will survive because the Holy Spirit has made that promise.

In the end, it is the stupidity of the man-made rules that has crippled the Church. The most obvious are the insistence on a celibate preisthood for Latin-Rite Catholics who weren't Anglican priests first. It is OK for Eastern Rite Catholics to be married. It is OK for Anglican priests to move to the Catholic Church and be married priests. But, as a general rule, priests are to be unmarried men. The Vatican can change this rule at any time. The Church would be very different if priests were married.

 

[KevinKuck]

What gives you hope that average Catholics of the future will be more like liberal Catholics of today?

Put another way, what are some things from the past that indicate a progression of this sort? And if you don't mind, could you outline a connection or two between some of the things you'd like to see in the future and some of the progression you've seen in the past? If you could tell me why some of the things from the past tend to indicate a particular kind of progression in either the near or more-distant future, that would be absolutely perfect.

I would suggest that in the upcoming generations, we will see an increasing shift towards a Third World understanding of what it means to be Catholic. As the number of Catholics in the northern hemisphere decrease and the number of Catholics in th southern hemisphere increase, I believe many concepts (or perhaps priorities is the better word), will be challenged and re-evaluated. Obviously, a third world mentality brings with it notions of poverty, hunger, dignity, mercy, and compassion.

It really does seem an issue of human geography. I don't presume to have a crystal ball, but I think in some way these are the challenges of the future and I am at least optimistic that history will progress in this manner. It would indeed be interesting, as some have asserted that the Third World of today is very comparable (at least in its history and priorities) to that of Roman-occupied Judea during the lifetime of Jesus.