What exactly is an angel?

[monkeypsycho62]

What do they look like? When were they made? What can they do?

 

[HypnoToad]

They are spirits, so they have no "standard" appearance.

They were likely made when the world was created. When creation was finished, it states that the heavens and earth and "everything in them" was finished.

There were three basic roles played by angels mentioned in Scripture. They are mentioned as worshipping God (angels called "seraphim" supposedly do nothing but worship). They are mentioned as messengers, like Gabriel visiting Mary. And they are instruments of God's wrath - an angel slew the firstborn children of Egypt in the ten plagues, and angels unleash God's wrath on earth in the vision of Revelation.

They are probably "capable" of doing lots of other stuff, but those are pretty much all the examples we get in Scripture.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

So are they actually just a metaphor for God's speech? The "mouth" of God, so to speak?

 

[HypnoToad]

So are they actually just a metaphor for God's speech? The "mouth" of God, so to speak?

No, they are real beings.

 

[heron]

The term used is interchanged with "messenger."

People I know who have seen angels say that they are huge, but it seems as though they are able to change appearance. Several people have told me they saw angels standing around nine feet tall, but there were a few times friends saw huge ones in the back of a sanctuary.

They never describe them with non-human characteristics, except for wings (which people argue over) or a glow.

Since there are so many stories of people who were rescued by angels that appeared as humans and suddenly disappeared, I would guess they have the ability to change form.

This form change has been documented millions of times concerning demons, so I would guess it's just as possible for angels. They usually appear in a form that people will trust, in order to get the job done. (Old man helping change a tire, etc.)

Scripturally, there are angels who have delivered messages, and angels in charge of territories who hold back demonic forces and deliver huge events to a region. They instigate, protect, inform, and rescue, among other things.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

Why would God need "messengers" if he can do anything? That doesn't really make sense to me. And do these angels have free will? What if they didn't want to do errands for God? Aren't they slaves?

And if they can fly, can never die, are incredibly strong, and other things, then wouldn't that make them.........gods? I mean, Greek and Roman gods sound like these descriptions of angels.

 

[heron]

People barely know the surface of what's in the supernatural level of this universe. We just go with what we've heard and experienced.

Why would God need "messengers" if he can do anything?

Choice. There are many things that He puts in our hands to do too. For instance, prayer. Why would we need to pray if He could fix everything without us asking. It's a whole setup that He decided to operate a certain way. Being entrusted with responsibility is a nice honor.

That doesn't really make sense to me. And do these angels have free will?

There are fallen angels, so I would assume so. But they appear to make their choice and stick with it... not sure.

What if they didn't want to do errands for God? Aren't they slaves?

And if they can fly, can never die, are incredibly strong, and other things, then wouldn't that make them.........gods? I mean, Greek and Roman gods sound like these descriptions of angels.

 

[HypnoToad]

And do these angels have free will? What if they didn't want to do errands for God? Aren't they slaves?

Well, it involves a little deeper philosophy and logic, so I don't know if you'll understand it. Thomas Aquinas delved into the subject of angels' free will. What he came up with is, basically, angels have a perfect free will. A consequence of this is that once they make a choice, they never change their mind. So, when the angels who originally chose to obey God made that decision to do so, they stick with that choice forever. So, they freely chose to submit to God and will never change. They are not slaves, as it was their own choice to submit.

And if they can fly, can never die, are incredibly strong, and other things, then wouldn't that make them.........gods? I mean, Greek and Roman gods sound like these descriptions of angels.

It makes them god-like, but there are limits, they are definitely weaker than God. They aren't omnipresent as God is, they are subject to His will, they can't "create" anything.

 

[monkeypsycho62]

Well, it involves a little deeper philosophy and logic, so I don't know if you'll understand it. Thomas Aquinas delved into the subject of angels' free will. What he came up with is, basically, angels have a perfect free will. A consequence of this is that once they make a choice, they never change their mind. So, when the angels who originally chose to obey God made that decision to do so, they stick with that choice forever. So, they freely chose to submit to God and will never change. They are not slaves, as it was their own choice to submit.

Well, yeah, but they couldn't really choose. The angel that DID resist was put into Hell for all of eternity. It's kinda hard to have free will when you're being threatened with eternal torture by the person who created you a little bit ago.

It makes them god-like, but there are limits, they are definitely weaker than God. They aren't omnipresent as God is, they are subject to His will, they can't "create" anything.

If they are subject to his will, then why did (or could) Satan rebel? And wasn't Satan pretty brave to try and overthrow a being that he KNEW to be completely superior to him? And why didn't God just destroy Satan instead of letting him screw up the world forever? Or just forgive Satan as one might forgive a foe in war, or something such as when the Pope forgave someone who shot him.

Btw, thanks for the good responses.

 

[ContentInHim]

Lucifer wasn't brave - he was the ultimate in stupidity. God is using him now to separate believers from those who will never believe and he will never be forgiven.

I'll be glad to post scripture if you will read it.

 

[s_gunter]

If they are subject to his will, then why did (or could) Satan rebel? And wasn't Satan pretty brave to try and overthrow a being that he KNEW to be completely superior to him? And why didn't God just destroy Satan instead of letting him screw up the world forever? Or just forgive Satan as one might forgive a foe in war, or something such as when the Pope forgave someone who shot him.

Btw, thanks for the good responses.

I don't think that Satan was either stupid or brave. I don't think that Satan trusted God at all, either that, he was so jealous that he couldn't see truth. The angels, just like us humans, are given the choice to choose God or ourselves. Obviously, Satan choose himself in trying to overthrow God.

Oh, and without a tempter, there's not really a choice, is there? If Satan hadn't but doubt in Eve's mind, who knows? She might not have ever taken a bite from the forbidden tree. She might not have known there was a difference in following self and following God. . . .

 

[monkeypsycho62]

I don't think that Satan was either stupid or brave. I don't think that Satan trusted God at all, either that, he was so jealous that he couldn't see truth. The angels, just like us humans, are given the choice to choose God or ourselves. Obviously, Satan choose himself in trying to overthrow God.

Oh, and without a tempter, there's not really a choice, is there? If Satan hadn't but doubt in Eve's mind, who knows? She might not have ever taken a bite from the forbidden tree. She might not have known there was a difference in following self and following God. . . .

So God allows Satan to do evil in the world because.......he wants it to be more interesting? That's kinda cruel.

 

[R3quiem]

I never understood Lucifer's rebellion either.

Angels are supposed to have a much better understanding of God than humans do- they should realize his omnipotence and omniscience. They are in his presence quite frequently, and even Satan after the fall was able to stand in God's presence (when he talked with him about Job).

Also, it is written that angels are a little bit higher than humans, so I would assume that would include intelligence.

Why then, would a very intelligent being who had a higher understanding of God's omnipotence and personality than we do choose to rebel? If he knows God is omnipotent, he knew God could stop him at any time and put him in hell or whatever. It doesn't add up.

 

[HypnoToad]

Well, yeah, but they couldn't really choose. The angel that DID resist was put into Hell for all of eternity. It's kinda hard to have free will when you're being threatened with eternal torture by the person who created you a little bit ago.

You can't argue that they couldn't choose because the devil and 1/3 of all the other angels DID choose.

If they are subject to his will, then why did (or could) Satan rebel?

Because God allowed it.

And wasn't Satan pretty brave to try and overthrow a being that he KNEW to be completely superior to him?

Yes, he was full of pride.

And why didn't God just destroy Satan instead of letting him screw up the world forever? Or just forgive Satan as one might forgive a foe in war, or something such as when the Pope forgave someone who shot him.

Because God wanted the situation as it is.

 

[tapero]

What do they look like? When were they made? What can they do?

Apparently angels were created on the first day of creation.Gen 1:1-5 In the beginning [of the first day] God created the heavens

Job 38:4 God says:

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone- 7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?

In the bible many times they are referred to as sons of God. They appeared as men in the ot. Some were so awed in seeing an angel, they dropped like dead men, all strength gone, some assuming it was God, while others were not effected that way when seeing an angel.

Bible says:

Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.

They are servants of God; if fallen of course are called demons; both angels and demons fight spiritual battles which we do not know about.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Above is referring to demons.

We do have some insight into some spiritual occurances in the bible on the battle, but not a lot.

Jesus said speaking of children:

See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Due to this some believe every one has an angel, which this does not say, but is where comes from. May be so, but this does not say such. Children must have angels but it doesn't mean as we grow up that we do, just says children have angels.

As said, angels worship God, different kinds of angelic beings as well, angels carry out Gods wrath in ot and nt.

satan had ability to destroy by weather, also things we would consider supernatural, like psychic ability, foretelling, etc, are demonic, and detested by God. Also, some people in ot had demonic ability to perform things as well.

So are they actually just a metaphor for God's speech? The "mouth" of God, so to speak?

No angels are quite real.

Why would God need "messengers" if he can do anything? That doesn't really make sense to me. And do these angels have free will? What if they didn't want to do errands for God? Aren't they slaves?

And if they can fly, can never die, are incredibly strong, and other things, then wouldn't that make them.........gods? I mean, Greek and Roman gods sound like these descriptions of angels.

yes, angels have free will as far as we know, however, we do know that satan was restrained in job in part, and is also probably restrained right now, so in a sense, may not have complete free will. In the sense of doing right or wrong, they obviously had free will to do so, as many fell when satan fell. So, it may be after the fall, some of their powers were restrained no clue.

I would think but we've no clue that if angels good ones, don't wish to do a task, they don't do it. no clue tho not written.

while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.

so maybe can fly. we know there are angels called seraphims that have wings. didn't search exhaustively so they may well all be able to fly. They aren't all extremely strong. As we know due to spiritual battles shown us some are unable to defeat the demon, needs help from others..so strength varies and not sure why.

a god, is a created being, a god is a creation..men are calle gods, mythical creatures called gods, etc. God created all things. There's nothing created that God didn't create. So, if someone is called a god, means nothing. There are no other Gods, only gods, man created beings (mythical) or woods, gold, whatever, created things. such as goddess of love, no such thing, only exists in minds.

angels are angels, created beings, only given what God gave them, same as man, given what He gave us. No one is forced by God to do anything. angel or man.

Well, yeah, but they couldn't really choose. The angel that DID resist was put into Hell for all of eternity. It's kinda hard to have free will when you're being threatened with eternal torture by the person who created you a little bit ago.

If they are subject to his will, then why did (or could) Satan rebel? And wasn't Satan pretty brave to try and overthrow a being that he KNEW to be completely superior to him? And why didn't God just destroy Satan instead of letting him screw up the world forever? Or just forgive Satan as one might forgive a foe in war, or something such as when the Pope forgave someone who shot him.

Btw, thanks for the good responses.

You wrote it's hard to have free will if hell awaits. nope not hard, whole world has free will, and hell awaits those without Christ. Christians and non christians alike sin, but christians are forgiven sin, hence saved. It matters not what one does in life, but who we believe in. As for angels we know very little about them.

As for Gods judging angels is his priviledge same as man, as he created us and he is not a hard task master or mean ogre, but a loving God. His character I imagine has to repsond to certain events, some with immediate judgement, and as for now, we know, he is patiently waiting, holding his wrath, gently waiting for more children to come in the kingdom, and whatever else is restraining his wrath, which will be shown in tribulation time, and times after.

God doesn't go against what he set in motion from the beginning of time. Man is eternal, I guess angels are too since they will the bad ones, be in hell tortured forever, same with non believers in Christ.

satan rebelled for his reason, just as we rebel for our reasons, tho before Christ, I didn't think about God at all, but was living in rebellion none the less and until I came to Christ wasn't aware. God gave us free will to do so.

If you think satans smart, which he aint as he rejected God, what do you thnk of man who knows theres a God and rejects God..same thing.

don't know why satan isn't destroyed prob cause God has ordained what will occur, as clearly has, but if God wiped out evil, all men would cease to exist. All men.

dont' think God would destroy satan a fallen being, whatever he set in motion in the beginning as pertains to angels is what his actions would be.

Same as with men. by the way, if satan didn't fall,and God put adam and eve on earth just as he did, they very well or a descentdant would've probably eaten the fruit and sin enter the world as it did so, and all men spritual death by such, and so we have our own evil.

may be possible they would not have fallen if satan didn't tempt them,don't know, but may well have fallen without being tempted.

I'm sure if forgiveness were available to fallen angels it would be given them, as it is, it isn't at least to the angels we know that fell in the bible.

So God allows Satan to do evil in the world because.......he wants it to be more interesting? That's kinda cruel.

Don't know where that comes from. No God does not allow satan to do evil for any reason. satan does evil on his own. we have only one instance where satan was allowed by God what God knew was in satans evil heart. It may be due to the power satan has (angels have differnt power it appears) that in that event in job, God said okay,don't touch his life. Then satan murdered and destroyed as is what he does, is doing now, to keep people from Christ.

We do not know if this always occurs, such as occured in Job, and i can assure you that God is not allowing a rapist of a child to rape, the raper is doing it of his own free will.

people really get mixed up with saying God allows certain things.

I never understood Lucifer's rebellion either.
Angels are supposed to have a much better understanding of God than humans do- they should realize his omnipotence and omniscience. They are in his presence quite frequently, and even Satan after the fall was able to stand in God's presence (when he talked with him about Job).

Also, it is written that angels are a little bit higher than humans, so I would assume that would include intelligence.

Why then, would a very intelligent being who had a higher understanding of God's omnipotence and personality than we do choose to rebel? If he knows God is omnipotent, he knew God could stop him at any time and put him in hell or whatever. It doesn't add up.

We don't know that angels have a better understanding of God than we do. It's not written, but those who are in heaven, and there may be certain ones chosen for certain knowledge etc. We know they don't know same as no one knows when the end times will occur.

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

As to man made a little lower, one can't imply what it might mean. It may mean powers, abilities that we don't have, may not mean intelligence at all.

I did explain this above, but intelligence has nothing to do with fear of God. Scripture makes that clear, he chose the foolish to confound the wise, he chose the lower, the hated, etc. If someone thinks he is intelligent and such keeps him from God, pretty dumb, but is what occurs.

Not that many Christians are not intelligent, anyone can come to Christ, but clear that most of us are regular folk. Our intelligence has nothing to do with our walk with God, our faith has all to do with it.

So with all our intelligence, in answer to your question; with all we have many reject God, so there's your answer, angels no different.

Men know if they don't believe in Christ, if htey have heard, they know the bible says will go to hell, doens't change their mind, does some, but not many, so no differnt with satan and fallen angels.

blessings,
tapero

 

[heron]

If you want to read more on angels, this link is a word search through scriptures -- references to angels. You can do the same for demons and the devil, etc.

http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=e...saiah%2053:5-7&new=1&sr=1&nb=isa&ng=53&ncc=53

 

[monkeypsycho62]

Because God wanted the situation as it is.

Why? I would think that an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God would attempt to stop evil from happening as soon as he saw it. I wouldn't think he'd want people to suffer, but that's exactly what he's allowing by letting Satan interact with the world.

 

[R3quiem]

Tapero, you pointed out that angels MAY not be more intelligent, and they MAY not be more knowledgeable about God than humans. So let's assume that's true.

Can we at least assume that angels KNOW that God exists? Plenty of humans do not, or they "know" he exists but have occasional doubts, but I would think that angels are God's direct messengers so they pretty much KNOW that God exists.

Now, if the angels, including Satan KNOW that God exists and they know he created them- that he has complete power over them- why would they rebel? Yeah, Satan was supposedly prideful, but there are biblical examples that show him to be a very intelligent, cunning being. It doesn't matter how prideful you are, you have to be STUPID to rebel against an omnipotent God that you are familiar with.

The story doesn't make sense.

 

[heron]

t doesn't matter how prideful you are, you have to be STUPID to rebel against an omnipotent God that you are familiar with.

What teenager hasn't riled their parents, at the risk of getting kicked out of the house? Some things are more valuable to [people] than comfort and acceptance.

 

[heron]

You might enjoy reading the book of Enoch, which is not included in the Bible but was referred to in both OT and NT.

There is a point in his vision/experience where he tried to intercede for the fallen angels.
Drop down to this section: XII-XVI. Dream-Vision of Enoch


http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm