What evolution does NOT explain

llDayo · Apr 8, 2005

Lonnie said:
It is more logical to believe that the universe was caused by an all powerful God, who claimed to have created the universe. Then to believe that the universe has no cause, and that nothing caused the universe into being.

What are the odds that a supreme being would create a universe when it exists in an eternal place of happiness and perfection? Sounds like there's no need for it to do so or else it would indicate a need of some sort. Since God can't have a need beings as it's omnipotent then the universe existing means he cannot.

"And God disappears in a puff of logic."

(if you dont understand why it is more logical, and you would like to understand why, then you should try reading the book "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist")

Takes more faith to believe in something with no evidence, of which the existence of a god has none.

llDayo · Apr 8, 2005

Lonnie said:
So, Big Bob.

You believe that "Nothing caused the universe and everything in it" is more logical than, "Something caused the universe and everything in it"?

Without any evidence of something before our universe this IS the most logical conclusion.

Hydra009 · Apr 8, 2005

Irish_Guevara said:
You see, your belief that there had to be some sort of Christian creator God simply because the physical laws of the universe that we live in allows life COMPLETELY DESTROYS EVOLUTION. I just can't argue with your superior logic.

JohnR7 said:

I said nothing about where the physical laws come from.

Click to expand...

That's right, you didn't. But you did say, "If the nuclear force were 2% weaker or 0.3% stronger we would not have any life at all, anywere in the universe.", which is exactly what I'm addressing. When you figure out what you just said, we can continue this discussion.

We assume the physical laws exist and evolutionary theory far to often would be a violation of those physical laws. I have been saying this all along.

You have been making lots of outlandish claims, but you have yet to prove any of this.

Pete Harcoff · Apr 8, 2005

So basically, the OP's argument is: if things weren't the way they are, then things wouldn't be the way they are.

Not exactly the most compelling argument.

As far as the ToE goes, we don't need to know why the universe is the way it is to understand evolution of species. That would be like saying I can't learn how to drive a car until I know how to build one.

Pete Harcoff · Apr 8, 2005

Irish_Guevara said:
You have been making lots of outlandish claims, but you have yet to prove any of this.

Love it.

caravelair · Apr 8, 2005

Lonnie said:
So, Big Bob.

You believe that "Nothing caused the universe and everything in it" is more logical than, "Something caused the universe and everything in it"?

the problem is when you baselessly assume that 'something' = 'god'. something caused the universe =/= god caused the universe.

Lonnie · Apr 8, 2005

"Without any evidence of something before our universe this IS the most logical conclusion."

Then that conclusion also breaks the Law of Causality(the fundamental principle of science).

I would like to discuss this more, in another thread, in the near future.

llDayo · Apr 8, 2005

Lonnie said:
Then that conclusion also breaks the Law of Causality(the fundamental principle of science).

I would like to discuss this more, in another thread, in the near future.

Law of Causality implies something before God. So what caused God?

tocis · Apr 8, 2005

JohnR7 said:
The universe maintains a very delicate balance in order for life to form as we know it. If the nuclear force were 2% weaker or 0.3% stronger we would not have any life at all, anywere in the universe.

1. PRATT alert! PRATT alert!
2. no life at all? You don't know that. You can say "no life as we know it, but what do you think makes you so sure that other types of life are impossible?

Lonnie · Apr 8, 2005

"Law of Causality implies something before God. So what caused God?"

God has no beginning, therefore the Law of Causality does apply to God.

ServantofTheOne · Apr 8, 2005

llDayo said:
Law of Causality implies something before God. So what caused God?

the Creator is not a thing contained within this universe, and He is not restricted by its laws.

a programmer creates a program that does adds only like numbers, 1+1=2, 2+2=4, etc etc... and the "universe" of this program is limited to this Law. similarly we are created with certain finite laws governing our universe and all things follow certain properties and by certain criterea... one of these properties is cause and effect. every result in this universe follows this property, despite we might not know the cause of certain things that seem spontaneous.

this property cannot be applicable to the Creator just like the restrictive properties of the computer program cannot be applied to the programmer.

235U92 · Apr 8, 2005

How exactly can a God(s) exist before the universe when the universe, by definition, is all that there is?

ServantofTheOne · Apr 8, 2005

235U92 said:
How exactly can a God(s) exist before the universe when the universe, by definition, is all that there is?

how do you know the universe is all that there is? what of the expanding universe? rewind and there is a starting point.

235U92 · Apr 8, 2005

ServantofTheOne said:
how do you know the universe is all that there is? what of the expanding universe? rewind and there is a starting point.

Because, the word "universe" contains everything.

ServantofTheOne · Apr 8, 2005

235U92 said:
Because, the word "universe" contains everything.

there was a starting point, where was this everything before it?

235U92 · Apr 8, 2005

The universerse/space cannot exist when nothing else exists. Space is merely the relationships between objects and such.

Big Rob · Apr 8, 2005

Lonnie said:
So, Big Bob.

You believe that "Nothing caused the universe and everything in it" is more logical than, "Something caused the universe and everything in it"?

No. I don't know whether the universe has a cause and neither do you. It is, however, completely stupid and illogical to attempt to give credit to some random diety that has no evidence of it's existance when you clearly don't have a clue whether there is a cause at all.

Big Rob · Apr 8, 2005

235U92 said:
The universerse/space cannot exist when nothing else exists. Space is merely the relationships between objects and such.

Really? Space can be warped and distorted. How do you warp a relationship?

ServantofTheOne · Apr 8, 2005

Big Rob said:
Really? Space can be warped and distorted. How do you warp a relationship?

can you clarify what space is made out of. is it matter? is it something like our atmosphere made up of gases.. what is it.. its certainly not a void vacuum of nothingness.

235U92 · Apr 8, 2005

ServantofTheOne said:
can you clarify what space is made out of. is it matter? is it something like our atmosphere made up of gases.. what is it.. its certainly not a void vacuum of nothingness.

Hence my explanation of what space "is".

What evolution does NOT explain

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