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As though 'who makes the best burger' has ever been the source of a major dispute within the church.I'm quite sure we aren't sticking our necks out to conclude that THEOLOGICAL issues was what was meant.
The only reasonable way of approaching this question is to avoid the easy excuses. No one thinks that, when the Pope decides which car to buy, he's making an infallible moral or doctrinal judgment. That being the case, it helps the discussion NOT to make that one's answer to a serious question about the church changing its beliefs--as it has done many times.
At the same time, we do have to realize that there are opinions offered in public by the Pope or other clerics which are important but not meant to be anything official.
The truth is that infallibility--according to the church's own thinking--is not vested solely in the Pope. Far from it. When we look at the "magisterium" and the supposed continuity of beliefs, there are indeed many changes that have been made in history to teachings that were supposed to be infallible...and there is no way to get around that by saying "Oh, we didn't mean that, although we taught it as the whole church's belief for hundreds of years, so don't hold this change against us."
Purgatory and the Immaculate conception and the rosary, I went to google images and type in "Mary worship" and there were like 20 people bowing to a statue of Mary it freaked me out.
Thank God for the Reformation
This quite frankly isn't completely a correct statement. The Church still maintains that salvation is found only within the Church.
14. This holy Council first of all turns its attention to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it. (LUMEN GENTIUM 14)
And it still teaches this very fact. Concerning non-Catholics this document in the following sections explains its position very well, why we hold this position, so I rehash what one can read for themselves.
Concerning the two quotes you have provided, one of the problems that many create for themselves is that when you take quotes like these out of context and their historical environment, you can make them sound however you like. The world has changed drastically since these have been written. When these were written, if you weren't Catholic, then you were basically actively a rebel. Everyone knew what the Church was, and rejecting what the Church was, was also rejecting who God is. Thus in the context of the times these statements made logical sense. Remember what Christ said: He who rejects you, rejects Me, and He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me.
A simple question for you may clear up your confusion. Do you believe that someone who rejects God, knowing who He is, can be saved? The Catholic Church doesn't believe he can be.
The difference today is you have a lot of Christians who are not full members of the Catholic Church at no fault of their own. They haven't necessarily rejected the Catholic Church, knowing it is the Church established by Christ, but rather they reject the Church for other reasons, such as they have been taught the Catholic Church isn't Christian, or its the harlot of Babylon, ect. Invincible Ignorance plays a role here, in that if you are not convienced of the divine origins of the Catholic Church, then you are not rejecting Christ. For many they feel like if they became Catholic it would be the same as rejecting Christ.
The problem is that we are talking about a different time and place, with different issues to discuss.
I have to agree with others here, you don't have a very good leg to stand on. No salvation outside the Church is a doctrine not a theory.
If you don't like discussion, there are lots of other hobbies.It also helps not to make strawmen.
If you want to talk seriously about the issue, let's do that. "quoting" and "making up statements" is pointless.
If you want to talk seriously about the issue, let's do that. "quoting" and "making up statements" is pointless.
Hobby Lobby has a lot of neet stuff for hobbiesIf you don't like discussion, there are lots of other hobbies.
For everything that happened during the Reformation, on the Protestant side?
Yes I thank him I dont have to believe what a man who wears fancy clothes and sits in a gold chair tells me whats truth and not truth.
Besides, the Church isnt a denomation anyways its the body of born again believers. So really the RCC is irrelevant to me.
Interesting. So you stand behind the murder of priests and the destruction of churches perpetrated by German peasants during the Peasants' War that Martin Luther arguably started?
No, I dont really care about Martin Luther. I care about my fellow Christian brethern who get to worship god freely without a man dictating.
Interesting. So you stand behind the murder of priests and the destruction of churches perpetrated by German peasants during the Peasants' War that Martin Luther arguably started?
No, I dont really care about Martin Luther. I care about my fellow Christian brethern who get to worship god freely without a man dictating.
It doesn't matter since you agreed that everything about the Protestant Reformation was good. Are you retracting?
Betcha he also gets all warm and fuzzy when he reads about Hugonots (French Calvinists) burning Catholics too. Just makes one proud to be Protestant eh?
It will be interesting to see what excuse he has this time. The reason why I bring this up is that so many, if they acknowledge the historical Reformation at all, and not just think it magically appeared, think it was all fuzzy rabbits and puppy dogs, with "those evil Catholics" doing all the killing.
Hum, no response forthcoming from him I see, does silence in this case speak volumes, do you think?
Yes I thank him I dont have to believe what a man who wears fancy clothes and sits in a gold chair tells me whats truth and not truth.
It will be interesting to see what excuse he has this time. The reason why I bring this up is that so many, if they acknowledge the historical Reformation at all, and not just think it magically appeared, think it was all fuzzy rabbits and puppy dogs, with "those evil Catholics" doing all the killing.
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