What does..........

[LinuxUser]

Social Justice have to do with Christianity? I always heard it was a liberal buzz word. I know we are to help people but this idea of "Social Justice" makes me no nauseous

 

[christdiedforus]

I am not sure. I guess it would depend in what context it is being used. It could be a valid term or it could be a manipulative term, it just depends.

 

[A New Dawn]

IMO, social justice is just another name for liberation theology, which is based on the belief that Jesus came only for the poor and downtrodden. It is a theology that is governed by praxis rather than belief.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

It would depend on the context used. "Social justice" can be a liberal buzzword, or it can be a legitimate cry to help the oppressed. Civil rights legislation would definitely be a legitimate form of social justice. So, no, the term doesn't make me nauseous when used correctly.

 

[E.C.]

When used in the correct context it means helping the poor, downtrodden and those who need it.

A few years ago Seattle University was in process of buying an old-folks home to turn into future dorms. The students protested it greatly and when the deal went through anyway they went to great lengths to ensure that the residents of the home would be able to stay until they had a new place to stay. The students themselves even helped the residents look for new homes and made sure that the residents were treated very well during the whole process. That is one example of true social justice.

 

[HantsUK]

When used in the correct context it means helping the poor, downtrodden and those who need it.

A few years ago Seattle University was in process of buying an old-folks home to turn into future dorms. The students protested it greatly and when the deal went through anyway they went to great lengths to ensure that the residents of the home would be able to stay until they had a new place to stay. The students themselves even helped the residents look for new homes and made sure that the residents were treated very well during the whole process. That is one example of true social justice.

"That is one example of true social justice." Really? True social justice would have ensured the original elderly residents were not made homeless in the first place. This sounds more like an example of injustice.

This is an example of students showing practical love and care in the face of injustice.

Throughout the Bible we read of God's concern for justice and for the poor.

Proverbs 29:7
The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.

Isaiah 10:1-2
Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless.

Zechariah 7:9-10
This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other.'

 

[Joe the 2nd]

Social Justice have to do with Christianity? I always heard it was a liberal buzz word. I know we are to help people but this idea of "Social Justice" makes me no nauseous.

The concept of social justice should be very important to all Christians. The scriptures reveal that to uphold the cause of the vulnerable is to know the character of God.

Jeremiah 22:16 says:

"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD.

Read the above verse. What are the implications if we claim to be in relationship with God and do not grasp the need for social justice?

The Bible records hundreds of years of God calling out for justice and mercy.

In my view the evangelical movement in the UK has rightly emphasised the need to believe the Bible and to be born again; to be in relationship with God and with Jesus at the centre of our lives.

BUT, the same movement has largely diverted nearly all attention away from the need for Christians to stand up for justice. This leaves Christians who have practiced their faith for years, still in a state of immaturity.

 

[HantsUK]

The concept of social justice should be very important to all Christians. The scriptures reveal that to uphold the cause of the vulnerable is to know the character of God.

Jeremiah 22:16 says:

"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?" declares the LORD.

Read the above verse. What are the implications if we claim to be in relationship with God and do not grasp the need for social justice?

The Bible records hundreds of years of God calling out for justice and mercy.

Agreed.

In my view the evangelical movement in the UK has rightly emphasised the need to believe the Bible and to be born again; to be in relationship with God and with Jesus at the centre of our lives.

BUT, the same movement has largely diverted nearly all attention away from the need for Christians to stand up for justice. This leaves Christians who have practiced their faith for years, still in a state of immaturity.

While this was the case longer ago, I think this is changing. Evangelicals (in the UK) are now much more concerned about and involved with social justice.

 

[E.C.]

"That is one example of true social justice." Really? True social justice would have ensured the original elderly residents were not made homeless in the first place. This sounds more like an example of injustice.

...That's exactly what the students had done...

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

While this was the case longer ago, I think this is changing. Evangelicals (in the UK) are now much more concerned about and involved with social justice.

Evangelicals in the U.S. are concerned with helping the poor and needy, too. I wonder how much of the idea that evangelicals stopped giving assistance to the disadvantaged is just a stereotype, perpetuated by those who dislike some legitimate elements of the Christian faith (opposing homosexuality, for example) and want to present Christians as hypocrites on the issues that they do agree with? Not to say that evangelicals are perfect on actually practicing what they preach on the topic, but most people aren't. We all have weaknesses.

 

[A New Dawn]

Evangelicals in the U.S. are concerned with helping the poor and needy, too. I wonder how much of the idea that evangelicals stopped giving assistance to the disadvantaged is just a stereotype, perpetuated by those who dislike some legitimate elements of the Christian faith (opposing homosexuality, for example) and want to present Christians as hypocrites on the issues that they do agree with? Not to say that evangelicals are perfect on actually practicing what they preach on the topic, but most people aren't. We all have weaknesses.

I have to wonder about that, too. It's pretty sad that some have to tear others down to make themselves look good.

 

[Torporeal]

"Social justice" is ostensibly the eradication of inequality amongst humans. But it's a perverted view of justice inasmuch as inequalities that result from a person's right to choose, to make free choices, to live as they deem proper, etc. cannot, must not be viewed as "unjust."

It's not somehow "unjust" if by my poor choices I end up in poverty, or homeless, or sick, or whatever - when in contrast someone else makes good choices and ends up wealthy. Neither situation, including the gap that exists from the one to the other are "unjust" - except to those enamored with the political ideology of social justice.

But then irrespective of the choices that were made, or how they were made, should a situation arise where one person is rich and the other poor, the social justice crowd would unequivocally assert such a condition as "unjust." Their solution is, via the political system or an established progressive government structure, to take from the one who has and give it to the one who does not have. The problem with that is that those in favor of such a solution place no value whatsoever on whether either party deserved their "solution."

The mere fact that one person has more than another person is "unjust" to the social justice crowd. It matters not whether the wealthy person earned their wealth, or whether the poor person deserved their poverty. Worse, it matters not whether either deserves the social justice crowd's solution. Does the poor person deserve the rich person's money? Does the rich person deserve their money forcibly taken from them and given to the poor person? It doesn't matter to them. What matters is the inequality.

Which begs the question then, how can there be "social justice" if it be based on an unjust solution?

The answer lie not in any rational concept of justice (for their solution is anything but rational), but in the concept of a society where a central governing power is at the hub of dispensing "justice" to all. It is this power that determines "merit" and "need" and takes forcibly from those who have to give to those who don't.

Such power could care less about the "needy" - and even less still about the "able." What is important is that they derive their power from the transfer of wealth from the one to the other.

One quickly realizes then that such a "solution" immediately defeats itself should it ever be successful. Given that, it becomes even more important that the chasm between the two (rich and poor) NEVER be bridged fully, but that it be MAINTAINED in a constant state of disrepair.

Social justice then is truly not about the poor at all, or about the rich - it's about those who keep both as far apart as they can.

And trying to plug Jesus, or Christianity into that formula is - well, in my mind it's heresy.

 

[Torporeal]

Social Justice have to do with Christianity? I always heard it was a liberal buzz word. I know we are to help people but this idea of "Social Justice" makes me no nauseous

In the end, social justice is about equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

Theirs would be a race where each runner crossed the finish line at the same time, the faster ones hobbled, the slower ones carried.

The words of Christ are frequently employed to justify the cause, but merely using the same words does not at all guarantee the same message is being communicated.

It is not remotely "Christ-like" to 'turn the other cheek' so the government can slap one with more regulations, more fines, more taxes, more tariffs, more penalties... nor is it "Christ-like" to give the government your shirt too after they've taken your coat for the purposes of being "socially just."

God and Christ seek cheerful givers, givers who give from their heart - as individuals, not as a collective to the government for bureaucrats to distribute as they see fit. Indeed, the ability and desire to give is a blessing bestowed in hearts of individuals being conformed to His image, by His Spirit - not by some government transforming their behavior with regulations, laws, and taxation.

Being rich is not a sin. Having wealth is not sinful. That does not mean one should seek wealth, let alone covet it - those who do find it invariably difficult to do His will, if not altogether impossible. However, God blesses certain individuals with wealth (Abraham, David, Job et. al.), and talents (viz the parable with the same title) whose hearts are His and His fully. In such blessings God is not some author of sin by giving more to some, and less to others. Heaven forbid!

Social justice works from a false premise (equality of outcome is good) and seeks to subvert the power and simplicity of God's Word and His Spirit working powerfully in the hearts of individuals who've given their lives to Him, and give it into the hands of a few operating within a structure of their own making, distributing the wealth of one class of people (the "rich") to another (the "poor"). And as I said previously, there is nothing remotely "just" in such cabalistic maneuverings.

Stealing, confiscating from one to give to another is not Christ's way.

As with any wolfish scheme, it is often clothed in the raiment of what we all know to be benign and good. One is wise who understands such shrewd plots and machinations and the associated language that inevitably heralds, and then subsequently attends them. Wiser still the one who recognizes the outcome of such schemes is never as advertised.

God bless...

 

[Joe the 2nd]

Evangelicals in the U.S. are concerned with helping the poor and needy, too. I wonder how much of the idea that evangelicals stopped giving assistance to the disadvantaged is just a stereotype, perpetuated by those who dislike some legitimate elements of the Christian faith (opposing homosexuality, for example) and want to present Christians as hypocrites on the issues that they do agree with? Not to say that evangelicals are perfect on actually practicing what they preach on the topic, but most people aren't. We all have weaknesses.

When I think of social justice, it isn't just about giving aid to the poor and needy. It's also about defending them and helping them to stand up for their rights. It's about them having voice over the future of their community and their life situations.

I've never really known churches in my area of the UK to do that. And across the nation as a whole, it simply isn't true to say that churches commonly stand up for social justice. As a general trend, churches give out aid but are rarely involved in other issues of justice.

I think that the Evangelical movement has definitely contributed to this problem, because social justice features so little in its message - although it does get a lot of other things right. Christians need to bite the bullet, take stock of where they are getting things wrong and make it right.

 

[Joe the 2nd]

Social justice works from a false premise (equality of outcome is good)...

Well whose definition is that? It's not mine. In Isaiah 59:14-16 the Lord looks and is displeased that there is no justice and nobody prepared to intercede on the side of justice.

We can't dodge the importance of justice by redefining it.

 

[A New Dawn]

When I think of social justice, it isn't just about giving aid to the poor and needy. It's also about defending them and helping them to stand up for their rights. It's about them having voice over the future of their community and their life situations.

I've never really known churches in my area of the UK to do that. And across the nation as a whole, it simply isn't true to say that churches commonly stand up for social justice. As a general trend, churches give out aid but are rarely involved in other issues of justice.

I think that the Evangelical movement has definitely contributed to this problem, because social justice features so little in its message - although it does get a lot of other things right. Christians need to bite the bullet, take stock of where they are getting things wrong and make it right.

So, out of curiosity, what do you consider the other issues to be, and how do you see Christianity as failing at that mission?

 

[Joe the 2nd]

So, out of curiosity, what do you consider the other issues to be, and how do you see Christianity as failing at that mission?

It's an interesting question and I can't answer with regard to the situation where you live.

The first thing that springs to mind is that my local churches don't know what the justice issues are in the community. We have community meetings called PACT meetings, where residents meet to discuss local issues that need sorting out. No members from the churches attend, and consequently they don't know what the issues are when I talk to them.

One problem has been with a social landlord collecting rents from all the people each month but neglecting their responsibility to maintain the children's play area. Another has been the local authority trying to close down a school with special needs kids to save money. Church leaders could attend the public consultations, ask pertinent questions, and make sure that the people are being listened to. But they don't come to the consultations to be able to do that.

So how can these leaders and laity do what God tells them to do - and stand up for social justice - if they don't find out what the issues are and come to the meetings in the first place?? The next Sunday in church they'll be talking again about Christianity as a relationship with God, without seeing God's heart in the struggles of the community

At the national level, it is also very rare to see the churches stand up for justice. One Christian tried to set up a system where churches in each part of the UK meet with their MP four times a year, to examine whether their MP is really caring for the poor with his/her policies. But only a handful of churches across the country are interested in doing that.

Greedy corporations find legal loopholes to avoid paying millions and billions in tax, while our government cuts welfare to some of the most vulnerable people in society. One firm has dodged paying an estimated £6 billion in tax, while the government has just cut winter fuel allowance to the elderly. This year thousands of extra elderly people will die of the cold as a result.

But when I attend the peaceful protests against this economic scandal, I end up inadvertantly rubbing shoulders with some Marxists and Anarchists in the crowd. They are the ones who seem to care about the unjust situation; the Christians are nowhere to be seen.

 

[LinuxUser]

While standing for the little guy is a good thing I think it soon becomes to subjective just who that might be. I don't see that in Scripture, I do see feed the hungry, tend to the sick, visit the lonely, etc.

I think that is where "Social Justice" goes wrong it tries to do more than what Scripture says to. Now I can see some saying that I am bad because I don't want to stand up for the poor and downtrodden but I never said that; I just don't think we should use the Scriptures when we do it. I can further see some can say it's just an extension of that and that is great, but it never specifically says to do "Social Justice".

I do think in America that "Social Justice" has a liberal negative connotation of let government do things and government must help the little guy. I don't see that in Scriptures either. I know we like to give names to things so we can shorten them and have it all encompassing but I happen to think "Social Justice" to describe what we are to do as Christians is the wrong term.

 

[Joe the 2nd]

While standing for the little guy is a good thing I think it soon becomes to subjective just who that might be. I don't see that in Scripture, I do see feed the hungry, tend to the sick, visit the lonely, etc.

I think that is where "Social Justice" goes wrong it tries to do more than what Scripture says to. Now I can see some saying that I am bad because I don't want to stand up for the poor and downtrodden but I never said that; I just don't think we should use the Scriptures when we do it. I can further see some can say it's just an extension of that and that is great, but it never specifically says to do "Social Justice".

I do think in America that "Social Justice" has a liberal negative connotation of let government do things and government must help the little guy. I don't see that in Scriptures either. I know we like to give names to things so we can shorten them and have it all encompassing but I happen to think "Social Justice" to describe what we are to do as Christians is the wrong term.

The scriptures do say more than that.

The Book of Proverbs tells us to speak up on behalf of the vulnerable and powerless. In Jeremiah 22:16 we read that King Josiah defended the cause of the vulnerable and this is equated to knowing the character of God.

In Isaiah 58:6 God commands the people to break the yoke of oppression and set the oppressed free.

Isaiah 59:16 describes a situation in which God looks and is displeased that nobody is intervening to address the injustices that are going on.

Moreover, we are told to follow the example of Jesus Christ, and we see that Jesus spoke against the religious leaders of his day over the oppression of the poor.

Could it be that you don't see these things for the reason that I've outlined? That many forms of Christianity omit the need to seek social justice - even though that criterion is clearly expressed in scripture?

 

[LinuxUser]

No Christ spoke about the Religiousness of the Pharisees. I think you maybe seeing it through a bit of a liberal lens.