What does this verse mean?

[SongOnTheWind]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

 

[Clare73]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) (father of believers from all nations, Galatians 3:29) in the presence of Him (our father in the sight of God) whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead (Sarah's dead womb) and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; (Isaac from a dead womb)?

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

 

[Dave G.]

It's not really a stand alone verse and you can't easily understand it unless you realize what verse 16 and 18 means and the whole Abraham thing. Your immediate ( surface) answer is right there in verse 16. 17 is a kind of parenthetical statement following 16 and spilling into 18. Abraham then becomes your actual study if you read these three verses together and don't get this meaning. IE, dig deeper ! If you have a good reference bible follow the cross references, if a good study bible take in the commentaries.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

This story begins in Gen 12 when Abram is 75 yrs old. Rom 4:17 cites Gen 17:4 when Abram is 99 yrs old.

Abram & his wife are both to old to have children, yet, God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did. Tells them they will have a multitude of descendants.

Gen Easy-to-Read Version

Gen 17:
3 Then Abram bowed down before God. God said to him,

4 “This is my part of our agreement: I will make you the father of many nations.

5 I will change your name from Abram to Abraham,[c] because I am making you the father of many nations.

6 I will give you many descendants. New nations and kings will come from you

God enables Abrahams wife/Sarah to conceive, they have Isaac & the rest is now history.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

It's not really a stand alone verse and you can't easily understand it unless you realize what verse 16 and 18 means and the whole Abraham thing. Your immediate ( surface) answer is right there in verse 16. 17 is a kind of parenthetical statement following 16 and spilling into 18. Abraham then becomes your actual study if you read these three verses together and don't get this meaning. IE, dig deeper ! If you have a good reference bible follow the cross references, if a good study bible take in the commentaries.

I have heard it referenced standing alone as something quite significant. I really don't think you can do that in this verse, especially with the context it's in. But I'm no scholar. I agree that Abraham was the focal example here, but I have heard this being quoted as something else entirely, something which concerns me.

 

[HTacianas]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

There is some difficulty in the translation. Those things that did not exist were those not called the sons of God. But God called them into existence, i.e., he called those who were not his sons into being his sons. Therefore what did not exist he called into existence.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

There is some difficulty in the translation. Those things that did not exist were those not called the sons of God. But God called them into existence, i.e., he called those who were not his sons into being his sons. Therefore what did not exist he called into existence.

Except the scripture says what, not who. And sons are not mentioned here. The who may be those who are dead that He gives life to. But that may also mean dead things that are supposed to be alive. I get the analogy you are drawing, and it certainly is true that creation is groaning for the sons of God to be revealed; those who were once in darkness, who have now been brought into His marvellous light, especially in the light of His promise to Abraham of many descendants. Hmmmmm.

 

[HTacianas]

Except the scripture says what, not who. And sons are not mentioned here. The who may be those who are dead that He gives life to. But that may also mean dead things that are supposed to be alive. I get the analogy you are drawing, and it certainly is true that creation is groaning for the sons of God to be revealed; those who were once in darkness, who have now been brought into His marvellous light, especially in the light of His promise to Abraham of many descendants. Hmmmmm.

It actually doesn't say either who or what. A "who" or "what" is part of the translation into English.

 

[Dave G.]

I have heard it referenced standing alone as something quite significant. I really don't think you can do that in this verse, especially with the context it's in. But I'm no scholar. I agree that Abraham was the focal example here, but I have heard this being quoted as something else entirely, something which concerns me.

I think you're correct to question another use besides in context. Course that is without knowing just how it was used.

 

[newlightseven]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) (father of believers from all nations, Galatians 3:29) in the presence of Him (our father in the sight of God) whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead (Sarah's dead womb) and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; (Isaac from a dead womb)?

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

This is correct.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

It actually doesn't say either who or what. A "who" or "what" is part of the translation into English.

You are right, thank you. Could be either or.

 

[SongOnTheWind]

I think you're correct to question another use besides in context. Course that is without knowing just how it was used.

As a reasoning for us to call into existence that which does not as though it did.

 

[Dave G.]

As a reasoning for us to call into existence that which does not as though it did.

It sounds like it's being used more as an example perhaps or maybe used for it's nature or flavor, it's essence ?

 

[SongOnTheWind]

It sounds like it's being used more as an example perhaps or maybe used for it's nature or flavor, it's essence ?

Perhaps so. I have heard people use it to speak money into existence, cars, houses, jobs.
I don't know if that's the right application of this word???

 

[Dave G.]

Perhaps so. I have heard people use it to speak money into existence, cars, houses, jobs.
I don't know if that's the right application of this word???

 

[eleos1954]

Romans 4:17
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;

This verse has always perplexed me, especially when others have given their interpretations of it.

Thoughts?

Contemporary English Version
The Scriptures say that Abraham would become the ancestor of many nations. This promise was made to Abraham because he had faith in God, who raises the dead to life and creates new things.

you can look at some other translations here ...


Click verse for linked page

Romans 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the presence of God, in whom he believed, the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being what does not yet exist.