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What does this verse mean?

Dominus Fidelis

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Luke 16:16-17

"The law and the prophets lasted until John; but from then on the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone who enters does so with violence. It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest part of a letter of the law to become invalid."

Contrasted with the often quoted...

Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

I would take this to mean that "Heaven and Earth" passed away as metaphorical for the "new" Kingdom of God coming into existence, ie New Covenant, since Jesus said the Law and the Prophets only lasted until John the Baptist.

Everything was fufilled when Jesus died and said "It is finished."

That is the only way I can see to reconcile these verses.

:scratch:

What is the Messianic interpretation?
 

Dominus Fidelis

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St Paul teaches us that if we count on the Law for righteousness, and build up the Law from which we were freed, then we are transgressors.

Galatians 2:15-21

"We, who are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles, yet who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not!

But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.

For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing."


Seems to indicate that the Torah should be abandoned for pure faith in Christ.

What am I reading incorrectly? :scratch:
 
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Charlesinflorida

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Defens0rFidei said:
Luke 16:16-17

"The law and the prophets lasted until John; but from then on the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone who enters does so with violence. It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest part of a letter of the law to become invalid."

Contrasted with the often quoted...

Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

I would take this to mean that "Heaven and Earth" passed away as metaphorical for the "new" Kingdom of God coming into existence, ie New Covenant, since Jesus said the Law and the Prophets only lasted until John the Baptist.

Everything was fufilled when Jesus died and said "It is finished."

That is the only way I can see to reconcile these verses.

:scratch:

What is the Messianic interpretation?

What Yeshua says in Luke is a response to the Pharisees questions. What it means is that the prophets and the law looked forward to, or proclaimed the promises of the Kingdom some day coming. And now (in that time) It was breaking forth, beging to be born. It was the time that the Torah and the Prophets looked forward to and those who recognized it were pushing and shoving (figuratively) to get in, while others who did not recognize it, were struggling and fighting against it and further preventing others from going in. Therefore the Kingdom comes with struggle and violence.

It has nothing to o with the end of the authority of the Torah. As he says Heaven and Earth would pass away before one small part of the law passes away. This is literal and the Heavens and Earth have not passed away, and the Torah Remains.

In Mathew 5 it is even more clear if you read it in context, for he says he came to fulfil the law and the pophets. Fulfil in the Greek Playroo means "To bring to its fulness" "To properly establish in fulness" and he follows this up by saying that anyone who keeps (obeys) the commandments will be called great in the Kingdom of heaven, and anyone who breaks the least of the comandments and teaches others to do the same wil be called the least in the kingdom. Then he gives a bunch of examples of how to properly understand the Torah in its full meaning, "You have heard of old if you murder you are guilty under the law, but I say to you if you have anger in your heart toward your brother, you have already killed him in your heart and are guilty of murder." He is bring the law to its fulfness.

You must not try to understand scripture by taking them out of context, and try squeezing them into your practiced doctrine.

In II Tim 3 we are told by Paul that al the scriptures all the Old Testament, is to be used for doctrine reproof training in righteousness. Any doctrine that we hold to must agree with and be founded upon the old testament. Ths is clearly stated by Paul and by Yeshua. They even criticize some of the Rabbinical tradtions that were added to the law as being counter productive. You can not use Church traditons or new testament writings independent of the Old testament. The Old Testament is where you must test your doctrine and in the old testament there is nothing that says the Torah is to be done away with, or made obsolete. In fact what it says is that the Torah is the law that will go forth from Jerusalem to all the nations in the Millenial Kingdom.

Charles
 
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Charlesinflorida

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Defens0rFidei said:
St Paul teaches us that if we count on the Law for righteousness, and build up the Law from which we were freed, then we are transgressors.

Galatians 2:15-21

"We, who are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles, yet who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not!

But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.

For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing."


Seems to indicate that the Torah should be abandoned for pure faith in Christ.

What am I reading incorrectly? :scratch:


What Paul is addressing here is the perversion of, or the incorect use of Torah as a salvific document. IT isn't and never was a means of salvation. But the first century Jews under the leadership of the apostate priesthood of Hasmoneans, had tried to make the law just that, something that if you followed all the rules you could be justified before God, eaning your own acceptance in God. The ritualistic, leagalistic observing of Torah commands to gain you own salvation is works based flesh powered waist of time.

Throughout the Torah we see over and over it is faith in God, our repentence and Gods Grace that brings salvation. Obedience to the teachings of God called Torah, is what makes us into a people sanctified for service to God through praise, and ministry. Torah teaches us holy living, sanctification. James speaks of a man who looks in the miror steps away and forgets what he looks like. Because in the miror he ses his natural physical self. But in Torah he looks and se himself as he is supposed to look as a child of God, and that is the image that we must remember is ours and we are to maintain that image. How? By obedience to Gods instructions, that will make that image a reality in our lives.

Dof, the more you try to justify your rejection of Gods instruction, the farther you will be from becoming what God has intended for you and for the community around you. If what you live and expound to others tears away that which God is trying to build up in you and all of us, we will never realize the kingdom or take part in it. We will only take part in what man has created through his wisdom rather than Gods wisdom.

You must test your doctrine by the Old testament which has at its heart Torah, the instructions and teachings of God for his speacial household of faith. The doctrines of men are all faulted and contrary to Gods plan.

When you read the New testament, understand that Paul fully supports and encourages Torah for all blievers both Jew and Gentiles. He is totally against trying to use your legalistic pactice of Torah as a means of salvation, or as a wall of division though ethnicisty to make one man better than the other. The Torah is spiritual in nature and written on our hearts as well as on those stones. It is near unto you, even in your mouth hat you might obey them, for they are not a burden but a joy.

Faith in Messiah Yeshua, and his atoning work is our only means of salvation. Once we are saved THEN and only then can we begin to walk in the new spirit, which is subject to the law of God. Ro. 8 tells us that a man who operates in the flesh can not please God because his very mind is emnity against God because it is not subject to the law of God. On the other hand the spiritual man, now, He does please God because HIS mind IS subject to (obedient to) the law of God (Torah).

Blessing to you

Charles
 
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Charlesinflorida

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15–16 These two verses are the key to how Sha’ul regarded the Law of Moses; thus they are the key to the book of Galatians and to the book of Romans. He who seizes their true meaning can help repair the grave damage done to the unity of Jews and Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah by those who have misunderstood Sha’ul’s view of Torah.
In these verses Sha’ul pivots from defending the authority behind his version of the Gospel (which he began in the very first verse of the letter and has made his central topic since 1:10) to explaining why under the New Covenant it is wrong to Judaize Gentile believers. From here to the end of the book of Galatians he will be attacking the Judaizers (see v. 14bN) and defending the true Gospel, according to which Gentiles need not become Jews in order to follow Yeshua the Messiah.
For comparative purposes, here is a literal translation of vv. 15–16:

15 We, by nature Jews and not sinners from Gentiles, 16 but knowing that a person is not justified from works of law but through trust of Messiah Yeshua, even we unto Messiah Yeshua trusted, in order that we might be justified from trust of Messiah and not from works of law, because from works of law not will be justified all flesh.

15 “Goyishe sinners,” literally, “sinners from Gentiles.” I have added the words, “so-called,” along with quotation marks, in order to show that Sha’ul was not employing this demeaning term himself but using the terminology of his opposition, the Circumcision faction (see vv. 11–12&NN). According to them Gentiles were by definition sinners, since they did not have the Torah. This equating of Goyim and sinners can be found in the Apocrypha (1 Maccabees 1:34, Tobit 13:6) and in the Gospels themselves (compare Lk 18:31–33 with Lk 24:7); while at Mt 9:10, 11:19; Lk 7:34, 37; 15:1–2 the P<rushim apply the word “sinners” in a similar way, but to a class of Jews rather than Gentiles. Formerly Kefa himself had held a low view of Gentiles, but his vision in Yafo changed his attitude (Ac 10:1–11:19). We don’t have evidence for how Sha’ul thought about Gentiles before he came to faith, but it is clear from the whole book of Romans that as a Messianic Jew he went out of his way to emphasize the equality of Jews and Gentiles before God. See also vv. 17–18.

16a Declared righteous by God, Greek dikaiooÆ, “make righteous, justify.” In order for a person to have fellowship with God, he must be righteous; because God is righteous, holy, without sin, and cannot tolerate sin in his presence. Theology distinguishes two kinds of righteousness: (1) behavioral righteousness, actually doing what is right, and (2) “forensic righteousness,” being regarded as righteous in the senses (a) that God has cleared him of guilt for past sins, and (b) that God has given him a new human nature inclined to obey God rather than rebel against him as before.
Yeshua the Messiah has made forensic righteousness available to everyone by paying on everyone’s behalf the penalty for sins which God’s justice demands, death (see Ro 5:12–21&N). Forensic righteousness is appropriated by an individual for himself the moment he unreservedly puts his trust in God, which at this point in history entails also trusting in Yeshua the Messiah upon learning of him and understanding what he has done (1 Yn 2:23). The task of becoming behaviorally righteous begins with appropriating forensic righteousness by trusting in Yeshua; and it occupies the rest of a believer’s life, being completed only at his own death, when he goes to be with Yeshua (Pp 1:23).
Libraries of books have been written on the subject of righteousness, both Jewish ethical treatises and volumes of Christian theology, since the question of how righteousness is attained sparked the entire Protestant Reformation. What is important to keep in mind here is the difference between these two kinds of righteousness. Each time the Greek word “dikaiooƔ or a cognate is encountered, it must be decided which of these two meanings of the word is meant. In the present verse and the next, all four instances of “dikaiooƔ refer to forensic righteousness. But in v. 21, the related word “dikaiosuneƔ refers to behavioral righteousness (see note there).

16b Legalistic observance of Torah commands. The Greek word “nomos” usually means “law”; it is also the normal New Testament word for Hebrew Torah, which can usually be translated by the phrase, “Law of Moses,” or simply, “Law.” Most Christians therefore suppose that “erga nomou,” literally, “works of law,” a term which appears three times in v. 16, must mean, “actions done in obedience to the Torah.” But this is wrong. One of the best-kept secrets about the New Testament is that when Sha’ul writes “nomos” he frequently does not mean “law” but “legalism.”
So that my defense of this interpretation will not appear to be special pleading, I make my case by quoting from two distinguished Gentile Christian scholars without any Messianic Jewish axe to grind. C. E. B. Cranfield, in his commentary on the book of Romans, writes:

“ … it will be well to bear in mind the fact (which, so far as we know, had not received attention before it was noted in [Cranfield’s article in] the Scottish Journal of Theology, Volume 17, 1964, p. 55) that the Greek language of Paul’s day possessed no word-group corresponding to our ‘legalism,’ ‘legalist’ and ‘legalistic.’ This means that he lacked a convenient terminology for expressing a vital distinction, and so was surely seriously hampered in the work of clarifying the Christian position with regard to the law. In view of this, we should always, we think, be ready to reckon with the possibility that Pauline statements which at first sight seem to disparage the law, were really directed not against the law itself but against that misunderstanding and misuse of it for which we now have a convenient terminology. In this very difficult terrain Paul was pioneering. If we make due allowance for these circumstances, we shall not be so easily baffled or misled by a certain impreciseness of statement which we shall sometimes encounter.” (C. E. B. Cranfield, The International Critical Commentary, Romans, 1979, p. 853)

Cranfield is right—except for his speculation that he was the first. Forty-three years earlier Ernest De Witt Burton, in his classic commentary on Galatians, also made clear that in the present verse “nomos” means “legalism” and not God’s Torah:

“Nomou is here evidently used … in its legalistic sense, denoting divine law viewed as a purely legalistic system made up of statutes, on the basis of obedience or disobedience to which men are approved or condemned as a matter of debt without grace. This is divine law as the legalist defined it. In the apostle’s thought it stands for a reality only in that it constitutes a single element of the divine law detached from all other elements and aspects of divine revelation; by such detachment it misrepresents the will of God and his real attitude towards men. By erga nomou Paul means deeds of obedience to formal statutes done in the legalistic spirit, with the expectation of thereby meriting and securing divine approval and award, such obedience, in other words, as the legalists rendered to the law of the Old Testament as expanded and interpreted by them. Though nomos in this sense had no existence as representing the basis of justification in the divine government, yet erga nomou had a very real existence in the thought and practice of men who conceived of the divine law after this fashion …. The translation of this phrase here and constantly … by ‘the works of the law’ … is a serious defect of [versions that have it].” (E. Burton, The International Critical Commentary, Galatians, 1921, p. 120)

The phrase, “erga nomou,” found only in Sha’ul’s writings, is used eight times, always in technical discussion of the Torah—here three times; 3:2, 5, 10; and Ro 3:20, 28. Two other uses of “erga” (“works”) are closely associated with the word “nomos” (“law”)—Ro 3:27, 9:32. Even when he uses erga by itself, the implied meaning is frequently “legalistic works” (5:19; Ro 4:2, 6; 9:11; 11:6; Ep 2:9; 2 Ti 1:9; Ti 3:5), although he uses it 17 times? in a neutral way (Ro 2:6; 13:3, 12; 2C 11:15; Ep 2:10, 5:11; Co 1:21; 1 Ti 2:10; 5:10, 25; 2 Ti 3:17, 4:14; Ti 1:16; 2:7, 14; 3:8, 14).
I submit that in every instance “erga nomou” means not deeds done in virtue of following the Torah in the way God intended, but deeds done in consequence of perverting the Torah into a set of rules which, it is presumed, can be obeyed mechanically, automatically, legalistically, without having faith, without having trust in God, without having love for God or man, and without being empowered by the Holy Spirit.
“Erga nomou,” therefore, is a technical term coined by Sha’ul to meet precisely the need Cranfield has written about; it speaks of legalism, not Law. But because Sha’ul’s subject is misunderstanding and perverting Torah into something it was never meant to be, erga nomou are, specifically, in context, “works of legalism in relation to the Torah,” exactly as Burton explained. Hence my rendering, legalistic observance of Torah commands.
Likewise, the term “upo nomon” (“under law”), which appears five times in this letter, never means simply “under the Torah,” in the sense of “subject to its provisions,” “living within its framework.” Rather, with one easily explainable variation, it is Sha’ul’s shorthand for “living under the oppression caused by being enslaved to the social system or the mindset that results when the Torah is perverted into legalism” (but more on “upo nomon” in 3:23b and 4:4–5).
Christian scholars have discoursed at length about Sha’ul’s supposedly ambivalent view of the Torah. Their burden has been to show that somehow he could abrogate the Torah and still respect it. Non-Messianic Jewish scholars, building on the supposedly reliable conclusion, gratuitously supplied by their Christian colleagues, that Sha’ul did in fact abrogate the Torah, have made it their burden to show that the logical implication of Sha’ul’s abrogating the Torah is that he did not respect it either and thereby removed himself and all future Jewish believers in Yeshua from the camp of Judaism (the so-called “parting of the ways”). In this fashion liberally oriented non-Messianic Jews in the modern era have been able to have their cake and eat it too, to claim Jesus for themselves as a wonderful Jewish teacher while making Paul the villain of the piece.
But Sha’ul had no such ambivalence. For him the Torah of Moshe was unequivocally “holy” and its commands “holy, just and good” (Ro 7:12). And so were works done in true obedience to the Torah. But in order to be regarded by God as good, works done in obedience to the Torah had to be grounded in trust, never in legalism (see Ro 9:30–10:10&NN). If one keeps in mind that Sha’ul had nothing but bad to say for the sin of perverting the Torah into legalism, and nothing but good to say for the Torah itself, then the supposed contradictions in his view of the Torah vanish. Instead of being the villain who destroyed the backbone of Judaism and led Jews astray, he is the most authentic expositor of Torah that the Jewish people have ever had, apart from the Messiah Yeshua himself.
 
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Charlesinflorida

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16c But through the Messiah Yeshua’s trusting faithfulness, literally, as given above in vv. 15–16, “except through trust of Messiah Yeshua.” There are three issues here: (1) What is meant by “trust”? (2) What does the “of” mean in the phrase “of Messiah Yeshua”? That is, whose trust is Sha’ul speaking about, the Messiah’s or ours? (3) Does the conjunction “but” at the beginning introduce a contrast or a limitation?

(1) Trust. The Greek word “pistis” is usually translated “faith” or “belief,” but these English words can signify adherence to a creed, mere mental assent, whereas the biblical meaning, both in the New Testament and in the Tanakh (where the Hebrew word is “emunah”), is either (a) trust, reliance on someone or something, or (b) faithfulness, trustworthiness. A moment’s thought shows that these two are really the same—if one has genuine and unreserved trust, reliance, faith, belief in someone, then one will be faithful to him and trustworthy in carrying out his commands—that is to say, faith implies faithfulness, trust implies obedience. Eugene Nida, developer of the “dynamic equivalence” approach to Bible translation, notes a tribe of Mexican Indians that has only one concept and one word in its language for these two ideas, and he comments that perhaps they are wiser than we. For more on pistis and emunah see Ac 3:16N.

It is so important for understanding the book of Galatians to be constantly reminded of both aspects of the word “pistis” that I have encumbered the style of the Jewish New Testament with the awkward phrase, “trusting faithfulness” (or some equally clumsy equivalent), every time “pistis” or a correlate appears in this letter.

(2) Of Messiah Yeshua. Romans 3:22N, which discusses the same issue and explains the grammatical concepts of subjective and objective genitive, is an essential introduction to what follows.

The major modern English versions take “dia pisteoÆs IeÆsou Christou” (“through trust of Yeshua Messiah”) and “ek pisteoÆs Christou” (“from faith of Messiah”) both to be speaking of our trust in Yeshua the Messiah. This nearly always produces the translations, “through faith in Jesus Christ” and “by faith in Christ.”
I feel a bit intimidated in taking on nearly all modern authorities and insisting that this understanding is wrong and that instead Sha’ul is writing about the trusting faithfulness to God and to God’s promises which Yeshua the Messiah himself displayed in his own life. As before with “works of law” (v. 16b), I will let Gentile scholars make my case for rendering “dia pisteoÆs IeÆsou Christou” as “the Messiah Yeshua’s trusting faithfulness.”
Arndt and Gingrich’s A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 668 (bottom), notes, “The pistis Christou in Paul is taken as a subjective genitive by … ” and gives three scholarly references in German, although the authors of the lexicon themselves think otherwise. (“Subjective genitive” means that the faith/faithfulness is Yeshua’s own faith in and faithfulness to God his Father, not our faith in Yeshua; see Ro 3:22N.)
More recently, George Howard, in his article, “Romans 3:21–31 and the Inclusion of the Gentiles” (Harvard Theological Review 63 (1970), pp. 223–233), writes,

“It is best to regard the genitive as a subjective genitive, meaning the ‘faith of Jesus,’ for the following reasons. (1) In passages that are clear when Paul uses pistis followed by a genitive noun of person he always implies the subjective genitive, never the objective (for example teÆn pistin tou theou [(‘God’s faithfulness’)] in Romans 3:3; pisteoÆs tou patros eÆmoÆn Abraam [(‘the trust which Avraham avinu had’)] in Romans 4:12). (2) Galatians 2:16 shows that for Paul there is a difference between the ideas of faith in Christ and faith of Christ and that he is able to make himself clear by his use of grammar. (3) The Peshitta Syriac [version, 3rd century] always translates the phrase pistis christou IeÆsou with the meaning of ‘the faith of the Messiah’ (especially is this clear in its rendition of Galatians 2:16 and Ephesians 3:12), showing how the ancient Syrian Church understood the construction. Some scholars do believe that pistis christou IeÆsou is a subjective genitive, but by and large the phrase remains obscure.” (p. 229)

In writing about Sha’ul’s making “himself clear by his use of grammar,” Howard is referring to the phrase in the middle of v. 16, “we too have put our trust in Messiah Yeshua and become faithful to him,” literally, “we unto Messiah Yeshua trusted.” Here “unto,” doubly translated in the JNT as “in” and “to,” is the Greek word “eis” (“in, to, into, unto, toward”). The word is different, the grammar is different, and for this reason, says Howard, the sense is therefore different. Our trusting in Yeshua and being faithful to him means that we rely on him unreservedly, even to the point of being in “union with” him (v. 17), with the result that we too can now exercise the same trusting faithfulness as his. And what trusting faithfulness was that? The trusting faithfulness of Yeshua was the trust in God and the faithfulness to him which the Messiah exercised when he relied on God’s promises to the extent of being willing to die for our sake, “a righteous person on behalf of unrighteous people” (1 Ke 3:18; compare Ro 5:6–8).
Thus Sha’ul in this verse dissects saving faith into its two component parts: (1) the trust in and faithfulness toward God which the Messiah had (mentioned twice), and (2) the trust in and faithfulness toward Yeshua—and, by implication, toward God the Father too (1 Yn 2:23)—which we have (mentioned once). Neither alone would suffice for someone to be declared righteous by God. In this way Sha’ul handles the paradox of free will, mentioned often in this commentary, that, as Rabbi Akiva put it in the Mishna (Avot 3:15), “All is foreseen” (hence the need for the Messiah’s faithfulness, God having known and foreseen that we would all be faithless sinners), “and free will is given” (hence the need for us to put our trust in the Messiah by our own free choice).
Why must Sha’ul make the Messiah’s objective act of faithfulness to God central? That is, why cannot Sha’ul be referring all three times to our faith in the Messiah? Because then Sha’ul would be asserting that God’s declaring us righteous depends on nothing but our subjective choice of abstract “faith” over “works of law,” without any explanation of why the former is preferred over the latter. The reason that “faith” (by which is meant not just any faith but faith specifically in the person and work of the Messiah Yeshua) is the only path to righteousness, and that “works of law” (that is, works of legalistic obedience to Torah commands) are not a path to righteousness, is that God objectively (that is, because he is holy and just) required someone to be faithful to him before he could declare him righteous. In a world where all have gone astray (see v. 16dN; compare Isaiah 53:6, Ro 3:10–18), Yeshua was that “someone.” Yeshua’s own trusting faithfulness to the promise which God gave Avraham (Genesis 12:1–3), Yeshua’s faithfulness even unto death (Ro 3:24–26, 5:8; Pp 2:5–11), became the objective ground enabling God to make righteousness available to other human beings, provided only that they trust in and are faithful to Yeshua (or, equivalently, that they trust in and are faithful to God—according to Yn 14:6 and 1 Yn 2:23 the one necessarily implies the other). Yeshua’s faithfulness, which we appropriate and become increasingly able to exercise when we come into union with him (v. 17) through our trust in him and faithfulness towards him, gives God objective ground for at once declaring us righteous foren-sically and in increments making us righteous behaviorally (v. 16aN) with Yeshua’s own righteousness.

(3) “But”: contrast or limitation? A person is not justified by works of law but through the Messiah’s faithfulness. The Greek phrase translated “but” is “ean meÆ.” The other 51 times? it appears in the New Testament, scholars agree that it introduces a limitation, so that it is properly translated “unless” or “except.” Only here is it supposed to introduce a contrast, so that its meaning is “but rather.” Clearly this singularity requires an explanation.

And here is the significance of rendering “ean meƔ by “but”: if it is rendered “unless,” then a reader who disagrees with the points previously made in the comments on this verse—who thinks that “erga nomou” refers to Torah observance, not legalism, and that “pistis Christou” refers to our trust in Yeshua, not to Yeshua’s trust in God—must still consider the possibility that “ean meƔ means “unless,” and that therefore Sha’ul is saying, “A person is not justified by works of law [Torah observance] unless [he does those works of law] through [his own] trust in the Messiah Yeshua.” This is still a far more “pro-Law” statement than the verse is usually understood to be making.
Why do I not translate “ean meƔ here as “unless”? Because in the Septuagint, “ean meƔ is used several times to translate the Hebrew phrase “ki-im,” which generally means “but rather.” Thus there is evidence outside the New Testament that when Jews wrote Greek, “ean meƔ could mean “but rather.” If I am right that “erga nomou” refers to legalism, then “ean meƔ here must mean “but rather” and not “unless.” Why? Because Sha’ul in this letter is out to show that legalism and faith are incompatible: works of legalism by definition cannot be be done through trust. But if I am wrong about “erga nomou,” if “works of law” really signify works of Torah observance, then I cannot allow that “ean meƔ here means “but rather”; it must mean “unless.” Why? Because Sha’ul neither believes nor says that Torah and faith are incompatible; therefore the normal New Testament meaning of “ean meÆ,” “unless,” which does not require any special explanation, is the one to expect.

16d No one will be declared forensically righteous (see v. 16aN). In quoting a few words from Psalm 143:2, Sha’ul, following normal rabbinic practice, intends the reader to call to mind the context. Here the relevant context is the following portion of Psalm 143, which makes exactly the same point as Sha’ul does in the present verse:

“Hear my prayer, Adonai, give ear to my supplications!
Answer me with your faithfulness, with your righteousness;
And do not enter into judgment with your servant,
For in your sight, no one living will be declared righteous.”
(Psalm 143:1–2)

The same phrase is cited, for the same reason, at Ro 3:20&N, where Sha’ul is dealing with the same issue. Romans 3:19–26 can be read as an expansion of Ga 2:15–16.

The Jewish New Testament Commentary, (Clarksville, MD: Jewish New Testament Publications) 1996.
 
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Defens0rFidei said:
Luke 16:16-17

"The law and the prophets lasted until John; but from then on the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone who enters does so with violence. It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the smallest part of a letter of the law to become invalid."
A quote from Yeshua: A Guide to the Real Jesus and the Original Church
by Dr. Ron Moseley p.41

It is common to hear people point to the misunderstood phrase from Luke 16:16 and ask, "Doesn't the New Testament say that the Law and Prophets were only until John?" This question is usually followed by, "Aren't we under the Age of Grace today?" But these questions only serve to demonstrate the shallowness and distorted understanding of many modern-day believers as regards the Law. Luke 16:16 is simply stating that the Law and the Prophets were the only Scripture in existence up to the time that John came on the scene. The implication is that God was soon to add more."


DoF said:
Contrasted with the often quoted...

Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

I would take this to mean that "Heaven and Earth" passed away as metaphorical for the "new" Kingdom of God coming into existence, ie New Covenant, since Jesus said the Law and the Prophets only lasted until John the Baptist.

Believe it or not, the covenant is not a "New Covenant". It is a "Renewed Covenant".


Everything was fufilled when Jesus died and said "It is finished."
But actually, "everything" was not fulfilled. The purpose for which Yeshua came at that time was finished, yes... however there are a number of Messianic prophecies Yeshua didn't fulfill at that coming and they won't be fulfilled until He returns :)

Just my quick thoughts... This book I quoted from ^, -- worth buying, Defens.
 
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Defens0rFidei said:
St Paul teaches us that if we count on the Law for righteousness, and build up the Law from which we were freed, then we are transgressors.

Galatians 2:15-21

"We, who are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles, yet who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not!

But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.

For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing."


Seems to indicate that the Torah should be abandoned for pure faith in Christ.

What am I reading incorrectly? :scratch:


2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Without the Torah you do not know how to depart from iniquity.
Without the Torah you have no foundation upon which to understand God's Kingdom. "seek ye the kingdom of God first and then all these things shall be added unto you."

Christ is the fulfillment of the law, meaning that he epitimizes what it was like to live the sinless life, the lawful life, the fulfillment of the perfect and pure life. That does not do away with Torah. Nor by dying on the cross for the penalty of the law do away with the Torah. If the law could be done away with, then God could of just passed a new law and done away with the law so that His Son did not have to die.
 
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Charlesinflorida said:
You must not try to understand scripture by taking them out of context, and try squeezing them into your practiced doctrine.

It's not possible to gain any real understanding of the N.T. by jerking short bits out of context and attempting to compare them willy-nilly, and no individual could understand, say, Henry David Thoreau, by doing this, and a secular college term paper or dissertation on the works of Thoreau which used this approach would simply be too substandard to pass.

Here are a few simple, basic, but imperative, guidelines to right understanding:
1. The division of the Bible into chapters and verses is an entirely artificial; added to make it easier for us to find our way around, and these should be firmly ignored when reading.
2. If we must excerpt for discussion's sake, then we should include the entire passage for consideration of its meaning, and the passage may even be split up by a new chapter heading which will have to be ignored.
3. The teachings of Jeshua trump all others. The writings of Paul, et al. must be interpreted in the light of Yeshua's words; not the other way around.
4. The letters primarily address quite specific problems from which the recipients of those letters were suffering, and can only be rightly understood within the larger context of those problems.
 
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