What does this mean?

[freyajem]

I've never heard a verse that suggested that Jesus' divine abilities were limited due to His flesh.

He was fully human and fully God all at the same time. His ways are not our ways and it's OK if that seems impossible to us.

He got hungry and tired like a man and yet could walk on water or calm a storm with a word.

He new Zacchaeus' name before met him. In John 1 He saw Nathaniel under the fig tree before they ever met and Nathaniel was amazed. He knew the woman at the well's sorted past and that she'd be at the well.

Jesus Christ had foreknowledge and was constantly telling his disciples what was "going to happen".

I have never seen any scripture that suggest Jesus did not know He was also going to save the gentiles.

If Jesus was fully God upon the cross then the pain meant nothing because fully God is spirit.

Jesus was/is fully many on earth, God is fully God in Heaven. Jesus, fully man, asked His father to take away from His this horrid happening if He could. All God together, but man on earth, God in Heaven , all God , all together, each doing what needed to be done.

I believe Jesus is fully God, fully man but certainly not the way you do.....fully God would feel no pain on the cross. God the man, fully man, was on the cross. And Jesus was born a fully male human baby and lived a fully male human life or it is all for naught.

 

[mont974x4]

Frey, I see what your saying, I disagree with you but that's ok, you're still my sister in Him...because He did the work on the cross.

 

[freyajem]

Frey, I see what your saying, I disagree with you but that's ok, you're still my sister in Him...because He did the work on the cross.

Hey Mont

Someday I may find some material to back me up. For now, all I can say is that if Jesus was fully God, with all the abilities and absolutely no limitations of God, then life was a piece of cake for God on earth and the passion would be a piece of cake too for someone with no limitations. I still think Jesus was/is fully man and fully God, just not the way you do. I'm working on it.

 

[MaidforHim]

If Jesus was fully God upon the cross then the pain meant nothing because fully God is spirit.

Jesus was/is fully many on earth, God is fully God in Heaven. Jesus, fully man, asked His father to take away from His this horrid happening if He could. All God together, but man on earth, God in Heaven , all God , all together, each doing what needed to be done.

I believe Jesus is fully God, fully man but certainly not the way you do.....fully God would feel no pain on the cross. God the man, fully man, was on the cross. And Jesus was born a fully male human baby and lived a fully male human life or it is all for naught.

I think your separating the two flesh from spirit when they were one. Yes, He was fully God in Spirit, but ALSO fully man at the same time. It was the flesh that felt the physical pain and no doubt the heart of God that felt the heart ache and sadness.

Why should we assume that because God is spirit He feels no pain? The Bible says He grieves, that is a form of pain. None of us know just how vast God is, but I know it is far greater than we can begin to understand.

Jesus was God in the Flesh, both, at the same time according to His word.

Why should we assume that God was not able to be in the Flesh - Jesus and in heaven at the same time? He is all powerful.

I don't understand how God can be Himself, Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time they are all one, but the word says that is how it is. No doubt there is far far more to God and is abilities than we have the capacity to understand.

Consider for a moment a Christophany. Jesus, in the flesh appearing on earth before His birth in the old testament and after His birth, death and resurrection. He was flesh, ate with them, touched them, walked and talked with them, and yet appeared and disappeared in an instant and accended.

I think we could chase thise topic around in circles for days, but I think the Bible makes it clear that Jesus knew exactly why He was here, who He was here to save and that He had a knowledge of things past present and future.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[mont974x4]

I know He suffered the same temptations etc because we DO have a High Priest who can sympathise with us.

(both passages from YLT)

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving--to be spoken through the Lord--by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will.
Heb 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
Heb 2:6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him?
Heb 2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
Heb 2:10 For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect,
Heb 2:11 for both he who is sanctifying and those sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying, `I will declare Thy name to my brethren, in the midst of an assembly I will sing praise to Thee;' and again, `I will be trusting on Him;'
Heb 2:13 and again, `Behold I and the children that God did give to me.'
Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death--that is, the devil--
Heb 2:15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage,
Heb 2:16 for, doubtless, of messengers it doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold,
Heb 2:17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people,
Heb 2:18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

This doesn't mean He didn't have the knowledge. I think the statements of Christ suggest that He did have the knowledge but submitted to the will of the Father and suffered the shame of the cross

Heb 12:1 Therefore, we also having so great a cloud of witnesses set around us, every weight having put off, and the closely besetting sin, through endurance may we run the contest that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of faith--Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him--did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
Heb 12:3 for consider again him who endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, that ye may not be wearied in your souls--being faint.



Blessings, my sister, and thanks for a good thought provoking discussion about His precious and Holy Word and our glorious Lord. Good stuff.

 

[mont974x4]

I think your separating the two flesh from spirit when they were one. Yes, He was fully God in Spirit, but ALSO fully man at the same time. It was the flesh that felt the physical pain and no doubt the heart of God that felt the heart ache and sadness.

Why should we assume that because God is spirit He feels no pain? The Bible says He grieves, that is a form of pain. None of us know just how vast God is, but I know it is far greater than we can begin to understand.

Jesus was God in the Flesh, both, at the same time according to His word.

Why should we assume that God was not able to be in the Flesh - Jesus and in heaven at the same time? He is all powerful.

I don't understand how God can be Himself, Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time, but the word says he is. Now doubt there is far far more to God and is abilities than we have the capacity to understand.

Consider for a moment a Christophany. Jesus, in the flesh appearing on earth before His birth in the old testament and afte His death and resurrection. He was flesh, ate with them, touched them, walked and talked with them, and yet appeared and disappeared in an instant and accended.

I think we could chase thise topic around in circles for days, but I think the Bible makes it clear that Jesus knew exactly why He was here, who He was here to save and that He had a knowledge of things past present and future.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

That gives me an idea that goes along with our sympathetic High Priest ideal....We too suffer in the flesh but when we submit and humble ourselves and move in the Spirit things work out for the better.

That's not the intended picture and I may have worded that poorly but I think ya'll get the idea and i find it rather encouraging.

 

[freyajem]

I know He suffered the same temptations etc because we DO have a High Priest who can sympathise with us.

(both passages from YLT)

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving--to be spoken through the Lord--by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will.
Heb 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
Heb 2:6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him?
Heb 2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
Heb 2:10 For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect,
Heb 2:11 for both he who is sanctifying and those sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying, `I will declare Thy name to my brethren, in the midst of an assembly I will sing praise to Thee;' and again, `I will be trusting on Him;'
Heb 2:13 and again, `Behold I and the children that God did give to me.'
Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death--that is, the devil--
Heb 2:15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage,
Heb 2:16 for, doubtless, of messengers it doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold,
Heb 2:17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people,
Heb 2:18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

This doesn't mean He didn't have the knowledge. I think the statements of Christ suggest that He did have the knowledge but submitted to the will of the Father and suffered the shame of the cross

Heb 12:1 Therefore, we also having so great a cloud of witnesses set around us, every weight having put off, and the closely besetting sin, through endurance may we run the contest that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of faith--Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him--did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
Heb 12:3 for consider again him who endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, that ye may not be wearied in your souls--being faint.



Blessings, my sister, and thanks for a good thought provoking discussion about His precious and Holy Word and our glorious Lord. Good stuff.

You know, being as every tiny thing not of God is of great sin, and God can be nailed to the cross and feel blood and the pain of flesh blood injury, I think I will just leave your Christian world. You are all too saintly for me. I am just a human being trying to survive, trying to get from day to day, let alone a cigarette is sin and a woman today must obey her master husband and to boot she must be silent. You people turn love of God into something that I do not recognize,.

 

[mont974x4]

No need to run off. No one has claimed perfection on our part...only He has that rightful claim.


BTW, I smoke and have tattoos. Please don't stone me.

I also eat pork and drink coffee and, dare I say it..I enjoy marital sex.




<---I do that more than a couple times a day since I am still a work in progress, but our Father promised to finish the work in all of us.

 

[freyajem]

No need to run off. No one has claimed perfection on our part...only He has that rightful claim.


BTW, I smoke and have tattoos. Please don't stone me.

I also eat pork and drink coffee and, dare I say it..I enjoy marital sex.




<---I do that more than a couple times a day since I am still a work in progress, but our Father promised to finish the work in all of us.

LOL....enjoying marital sex is good, it is the extramarital stuff that is murder

I will stay around, visit, but I don't think I will post much anymore. I am just a down to earth, problem infested human being, full of sin and God loves me anyway.....I feel His presence, His love, knowing that I am trying so hard to be all he created me for and failing. This place makes me cry,that everything is sin- even breathing must be sinful for some reason like there is dirt in the air and I am corrupting Gods house.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

 

[mont974x4]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol

 

[Floatingaxe]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol

Do you feel welcome?

 

[AmandaLynn1288]

Freyajem... don't leave!! We need you! I am a very simple Christian myself, still in the process of learning. I need people like you to help me understand and to help me to take the things that I am learning about God and us them in my everyday life!! I know how you feel... I get really intimidated by some people of this site, but I just try to learn what I can from them and then let it go. I really hope you stay!!

 

[Psalms34]

Someday I may find some material to back me up.

Actually He did retain all His power and full Godhood. Jesus only did what the Father instructed; limitations were set, but it was Jesus that had the power to resurrect. The Father resurrected Jesus, the Holy Spirit Resurrected Jesus and the Son resurrected Jesus. Romans 8:11, Romans 6:4, John 2:19. If He had no power, how could He resurrect Himself? Not only that but resurrect Lazarus as well? Only God has power over life and death, and Jesus was not only fully God but He retained all His Godhead powers upon His incarnation into 100% man. He was not 50% or 0% God but 100% God and He was also 100% man or the sacrifice would be worthless. He lost no attributes, he did not become not God to inhabit the tent of a man then return to being God once again.

So no, you wont find what you are saying in the bible, it is contrary to what the bible teaches about God the Son. Today He is still 100% man and 100% God, he bares the marks of the cross to this day and shall into eternity. The resurrected body is His to dwell in for all eternity, He will never shed that nor shall we ever shed our bodies. The same body any born again Christian has today, they will have forever, but refurbished as what the resurrection to eternal life does, the same resurrection that Jesus raised Himself with into eternal life; with the same body He incarnated into over 2000 years ago now.

I’m not sure how tobacco fits into this discussion, how do you dismiss this because someone thinks (and not supported by the bible) that tobacco is some sort of sin? So because some claim tobacco is sin, one of the essential cornerstones of the Christian faith is easily dismissed? It is one of the point’s of the Nicene creed, I agree with this creed, it in effect divides the saved from the unsaved. I presented this creed to a Mormon a few months ago, he rejected it after I explained it to him (he claimed at first that he did but they all “claim“ things they don‘t really believe), this is because Mormons are not saved and won’t inherit the Kingdom of God; they are still in their sins. The litany test is the bible, if you cant support a view from it, especially something dealing with essential doctrine, it’s time to reevaluate such a position with what the bible really says, anything else is folly.

Sorry to hear you have taken offense to some Christians here at CF, I hope you spend time with your Church Pastor going over these essential doctrines of Christianity.

 

[whateveristrue]

Being 'fully God' would mean He would have the ability to make himself 'fully human'. So there you go... He is 'fully GOD'.

 

[freyajem]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol

Mont, you are a solid rock for God. You make me feel like I am worth something.

 

[lily101]

The woman from Canaan didn't grow up with 'Serving the living God' as religion. She was a gentile, a non-jew.

She had only heard of the wonders Jesus had performed and she still believed He could save her daughter.
Jesus wanted to know how deep does this non-believers faith run. We see her faith in the answer she gave...even the little dogs eat the crumbs wich fall from the masters table:
She knew she wasn't traditionaly a follower of God but she had faith. She believed that God even shows mercy to the lowest of his creation a dog at His table.
At this stage she identified with the dog, she didn't expect Jesus to treat her like one of His sheep. But she still believed. She had faith that He will even help her a gentile (a dog).

All the odds was against her.
# She wasn't a Jew (not part of god's chosen people)
# She was a woman
# Woman wasn't allowed to speek to men in public
# Jews didn't associate with gentiles
# Woman where seen as 2nd-rate people

BUT JESUS HAD SEEN HER FAITH!
She did't look at the odds against her she just Believed!!!

 

[mont974x4]

LOL Welcome? I don't know if we should feel "welcome" anywhere being that we're aliens just passin through until called home.

A rock? Thanks! I am fully convinced that those who have been forgiven much have much expected of them...and man, did God forgive MUCH in my case. He is my strength and my Rock and in my weakness HIs strength is shown.

 

[MaidforHim]

LOL Welcome? I don't know if we should feel "welcome" anywhere being that we're aliens just passin through until called home.

A rock? Thanks! I am fully convinced that those who have been forgiven much have much expected of them...and man, did God forgive MUCH in my case. He is my strength and my Rock and in my weakness HIs strength is shown.

Welcome back Mont!!!

There, now I don't know about you, but I feel better!

I've taken a few breif breaks myself. Glad your back!

 

[mont974x4]

Thanks!

 

[MaidforHim]

You know, being as every tiny thing not of God is of great sin, and God can be nailed to the cross and feel blood and the pain of flesh blood injury, I think I will just leave your Christian world. You are all too saintly for me. I am just a human being trying to survive, trying to get from day to day, let alone a cigarette is sin and a woman today must obey her master husband and to boot she must be silent. You people turn love of God into something that I do not recognize,.

I hope you dont' go freyajem!

I'm not sure why you'd think any of us "saintly" ? I know I sure don't fit into that catagory. None are without sin or struggles and we all face temptation.

Uhm... and being silent is not a skill I posess. :o Sorry.

Submitting to my husband I do, but then he loves me like Christ loves the church which was addressed in one of the next verses in that chapter. So submitting is not only easy, it's a pleasure because he loves he so much he treats me like a princess. (I find it very easy to submit to being spoiled - I confess!!! )

We all fall short and I don't know why you'd think anyone here thinks otherwise, but I'm pretty sure you and everyone here have a lot more in common than you're guessing

I think it's OK when we disagree here on CF, even if we never see eye to eye on something because at the very least it should get us into the word! You know what I mean?

When I look at scripture through someone elses eyes sometimes I think... Really? looked it up and find out wow that's true, what a blessing! I've then learned something new and been blessed by it!!!

And other times I've thought hmmm... I don't think so and gone off to study it further and been able to share scripture that might help someone else.

We all need to base our beliefs on scripture, not just on feelings or emotions because those human attributes can decieve us. Being able to debate things here in the forum has often helped me solidify some of my beliefs because sometimes I will know one scripture that addresses a particular subject, but someone else will share 3 more that address the same thing and I hadn't realized it or had forgotten them. That's a huge blessing in my eyes.

So really not seeing something eye to eye with someone can be very helpful in some ways, unless it gets disrespectful and yes there are those here who can be disrespectufl or rude, but there are far more nice people I think.

So from one flawed flesh and bone person to another I hope you don't leave just because we don't agree on something. We all love the Lord and that's a great thing to have in common.