But here's the deal, they aren't "without fault" before God because they are virgins. They are "without fault" because they follow the lamb by faith.
You cannot take scissors and cut out the part of the text that you do not like. It mentions their deeds in context to how they are without fault before the throne of God. Verse 5 says there was no guile found in their mouths; And verse 4 says they were virgins. Verse 4 also says they follow Jesus whereby he goes. Following implies obedience and not a mental acknowledgement. These deeds in verses 4-5 are part of the reason why they were without fault before the throne of God. In fact, this lines up with what James says because James says faith without works is dead.
You said:
And Enoch pleased God by faith. That's the whole point of that chapter is that without faith it's impossible to please God. (Hebrews 11:6)
Try re-reading the whole chapter of Hebrews 11. The point is that their faith brought forth works and deeds as a part of their faith.
As for pleasing God:
The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord . .
how to be holy in body and spirit. (1 Corinthians 7:32, 1 Corinthians 7:34)
. . . it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)
. . . I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant
offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God (Philippians 4:18).
. . . walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good
work and increasing in the knowledge of God. (Colossians 1:10)
Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. (Colossians 3:20)
. . . we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to
walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. (1 Thessalonians
4:1)
[Grateful prayer] is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior. (1 Timothy 2:3)
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to
their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the
sight of God (1 Timothy 5:4).
You said:
The passage is about love. Even if love is a choice, it's not a choice that anyone would make without first seeing God's grace and then loving their neighbor or enemy as a result of faith. (Matthew 5:44-45)
1 John 3:15 says if a believer hates his brother they are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So loving is essential to being right with God. 1 John 4:8 says he that does not love does not know God. Paul defines loving your neighbor as the fulfillment of the keeping of the moral law (See Romans 13:8-10).
You said:
Here's the problem I have with Wesleyan perfection,
I don't care what Wesleyan says. I did not learn Sinless Perfection from him but I learned it from the Bible.
You said:
from my perspective it tells people to be something without mentioning God's grace as a determining factor. (1 Peter 1:14-16) Holiness is not something you do, it's something you are.
I cannot speak for him seeing I did not read all his works. Truth is determined by God's Word and not by what some group teaches. Do you throw out the doctrne of the Trinity because Catholics believe in it? I sure hope not. So the test of the truth of Sinless Perfection is examing God's Word in what it says and it is not about you examing what men teach on it.
You said:
A good point. However... Changing one's lifestyle doesn't just happen.
This is simply a lie. There are many lives who have been instantly changed by accepting Jesus.
For there is nothing that can tranform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or familes). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(
2 Corinthians 5:17).
You said:
There has to be a process of following Jesus that makes one more like him. (John 8:11-12) Truly those who are in darkness have seen a great light. We know that Mary Magdelene (a former prostitute) was a follower of Jesus, meaning she actually walked with him around Judea. We follow Jesus in a more spiritual way now that is by faith.
Mary was not a practicing prostitute while she followed Jesus.
Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to, "sin no more." (John 8:11).
To say that she could keep on sinning would be a violation of the words of Jesus here.
You said:
I like how you left off the last part of the verse, "Then come follow me."
I do not see how that helps you. Come follow me implies an action of picking up your cross, denying yourself and following (obeying) Jesus.
Besides, the second to the last verse of that chapter says,
"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." (Matthew 19:29).
So this is not about some sin and still be saved gospel going on here that you have chosen to see here.
You said:
Referring to persecution not sanctification.
Not at all. For all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution (2 Timothy 3:12).
You said:
The two verse before that imply that the do this by the fruit of the Spirit, not out of human pursuit.
Nowhere did I say this was soley by human pursuit. The true man of God cooperates and walks with God and can only overcome sin and or bring forth fruit by allowing the Lord to do the good work through him. For it is the reason why the 24 elders had cast their crowns down before Jesus in Revelation.
You said:
Another good one. But... Although it seems that there's a dichotomy between faith and works in James, verse 22 of chapter 2 says that faith was what drove works in the case of Abraham.
Why does everyone think I am denying God's grace every time I preach Sinless Perfection? Sigh. I am not denying that Jesus saves us. I believe we are "Initally Saved" and "Ultimately Saved" by God's grace. But the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness (Titus 2:11-12). The grace of God is not a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4) (NIV). Oh, and by the way, James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James also says, "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." (James 1:21-22). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
You said:
The next verse in the chapter warns against placing your confidence or faith in yourself and in your perfection. Verse 16 tells you where to turn faith toward.
Nowhere am I suggesting in putting faith in yourself. Also, how does that undo the truth of this verse? It says God does not tempt you above what you are able to bear but he has provided a way of escape for you. Again, read the verse and believe it!
You said:
By all means, but will it help you to truly see what God's Word says plainly?
...
