What does praying actually accomplish?

[weybourne1]

I've never understood it, even during the 27 years I was a Christian.

(And I'm referring to praying for other people, ie. terminally ill, recently deceased)

 

[drich0150]

True prayer prepares your mind, and your heart for a proper relationship with God. Because true prayer is far more than a formal wishing session with God. Sometimes we see benefit from what we pray for or who we pray for, and sometimes we do not. The most important aspect of prayer is not whether we get the result we are looking for, It's all about humbling yourself to God, conceding your will to His and managing the results no matter the out come. These factors will help you develop your faith and make you a stronger Christian.

 

[weybourne1]

OK, maybe then at the part of Mass where they are about to ask the congregation to pray for the "sick and dying" members, they need to give your disclaimer that:

"You won't see any results. The person that is suffering will continue to do so as if nothing had been done. But it sure will strengthen your bond with god."

Then maybe the families of the sick and dying won't expect a miracle. But you can bet that if the person felt even remotely better, it would be:

"PRAISE JESUS! The Lord has answered our prayers!!"

 

[solarwave]

Well I don't know why you would pray for the dead unless you had faith for a resurrection.

As for praying for the ill there is good reason to. Three days ago I was at a christian camp at while over 300 people were healed. Not all these healing were ones that could in anyway be because of the placebo effect. One of the people was a girl who had been completely blind in one eye since birth, but then was healed and proved it by covering the good eye and saying the number of fingers held up in front of her. Another woman from last year share how one of her ears was deaf and that it was healed. She went back to the doctor and they said it was a miracle that she could now hear and she had the charts showing the hearing before and after.

Not all prayers have the results wanted and it seems that certain denomination of christianity don't tend to see healings as often (maybe because they don't expect to see one so dont have the faith to) but they definetly happen.

 

[ebia]

I've never understood it, even during the 27 years I was a Christian.

What does talking to someone actually accomplish?

(And I'm referring to praying for other people, ie. terminally ill, recently deceased)

IMO, as soon as one starts thinking of prayer in a functional way one has lost the plot. When you talk to someone close to you about something that is bothering you, you do so in the confidence that they will listen and possibly to listen to them, not usually or primarily to get a functional outcome.

Prayer is how we engage in relationship with God, and how we engage with his purposes in the world. Prayer does have effects in a variety of different ways, but to ask the question from that perspective misses the whole point - it's not at heart a functional thing, a transaction with God, but a conversation with God about the pain of the world.

 

[seashale76]

I thought ebia's answer was rather good.

If you don't mind reading an article or two and watching a video or two, you might find them to give you a better understanding.

Prayer: the breath of the soul:
P r a y e r

Let us Learn to Pray:
Let us

Anchorite Hermits and Prayer:
YouTube - Hermits in Orthodox Christianity

Elder Cleopa on Prayer:
YouTube - Orthodox Elder Cleopa - Starac Kleopa

 

[seashale76]

<staff edit>

Perhaps this will explain it better than I could:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He said: "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross." Self-denial is important, without which one cannot follow Him, without which there is no Christianity. Withhold nothing, lay aside not only material wealth but also spiritual wealth, changing everything into Christ's love, taking it up as one's cross. He also spoke -- not about Himself and not about His perfect love, but about the love which human imperfection can assume. "Greater love has no man than the one who lays down his soul for his friends." How miserly and greedy it is to understand the word "soul" here as "life." Christ spoke here precisely about the soul, about giving up one's inner life, about the complete and unconditional self-sacrifice as the example of the obligations of Christian love. Here again is no place for the harboring of one's spiritual treasures, here everything is given up.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His disciples likewise followed in His path. This is quite clear, in an almost paradoxical expression by Apostle Paul: "I wanted to be estranged from Christ to see my brothers saved." He said this, having stated that "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." For him such an estrangement from Christ is an estrangement from life not only in the transient, worldly sense of the word, but from the eternal and incorruptible life of the age to come.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are enough such examples to let us know where Christianity leads us. Truly, love here does not seek its own, even if this be the salvation of one's own soul. This love takes everything from us, deprives us of everything, as if ravaging us. Where does it lead? To spiritual poverty. In the Beatitudes we are promised blessedness for being poor in spirit. This precept is so far removed from human understanding that some attempt to read the word "spirit" as a later interpolation and explain these words as a call for material poverty and a rejection of earthly benefits. Others almost fall into a fanaticism, understanding this as a call for intellectual poverty, a rejection of thought and of any kind of intellectual substance. How simply and clearly are these words interpreted in the context of other Evangelical texts. The poor in spirit is the one who lays down his soul for his friends, offering this spirit out of love, not withholding his spiritual treasures.[/FONT]​

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/misc/maria_skobtsova_love.htm​

/misc/maria_skobtsova_love.htm
The above is an excerpt, though the whole thing is very interesting.​

 

[drich0150]

OK, maybe then at the part of Mass where they are about to ask the congregation to pray for the "sick and dying" members, they need to give your disclaimer that

"You won't see any results. The person that is suffering will continue to do so as if nothing had been done. But it sure will strengthen your bond with god."

I did not have a disclaimer. I stated that the purpose of prayer is not a devine wishing ceremony, and if you pray just right you have yourself a devine genie with unlimited wishes. In fact the point of my last post was to emphasize that the answers to your prayers have the potential to benefit you spiritually despite the actual outcome.

Then maybe the families of the sick and dying won't expect a miracle. But you can bet that if the person felt even remotely better, it would be:

"PRAISE JESUS! The Lord has answered our prayers

To the young in the Faith a positive outcome is the only form of answered prayer.. The purpose of prayer is for us to grow past this elementary understanding of God, and what it is he has, or will do for us. Sometimes this is accomplished through a positive outcome and sometimes it is not. Either way Glory be to God because He has answered our prayers!!! Even if it's with a no.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Prayer has results. There are people who God has entrusted with Spiritual gifts, gifts of healing etc. Not every one who prays will experience a healing, but those that God has entrusted will. This is so that only correct teaching will be supported by miracles. See John Mellor Ministries this guy Got on our local TV because he healed a wheel chair bound guy. Others were also followed up by the TV presenters, those who had said they were healed (to see if they remained healed) and they remained healed.

I myself have prayed for a person and they were healed (of a back complaint), it also remained good over the years.

 

[lordbt]

That prayer is understood by it's output.

If one makes a business call one may well do it to achieve something, and if that purpose could be achieved some other way that would do just as well. But if one call's one's mother, say, one may do that for it's own sake - it's not to achieve anything (thought it may)

OK. Prayer as a means of communicating with God makes sense. But the common usage of the term is to pray _for_ something: Pray for the health of a loved one, success, world peace, etc. Those prayers strike me as pointless. Why would it be possible to influence God through petition? If a man has cancer and people pray for his recovery and he does recover, it is seen as divine intervention. If a man has cancer and people pray for his recovery and he dies, God had other plans for him. Since man cannot alter what God has willed, what is the point in praying in such instances? He will live or die based upon Gods plan not my prayers. No?

 

[weybourne1]

All that I can tell from the answers provided is that praying is just one more security blanket of Christianity. It makes zero impact on anyone but the person doing the praying. And for those who claimed to have witnessed a "miracle faith healing" due to prayer, I'll ask you this: why don't these 'faith healers' cure amputees? ohhh right, because you can't fake that.

Show me some irrefutable evidence of an amputee growing back his/her lost limb through 'faith healing' and then we'll have something to discuss.

Also, why can't the 'faith healers' cure EVERYONE they meet? Why is it only a select few who are healed? Time constraints? Or could it be a very clever act?

 

[drich0150]

All that I can tell from the answers provided is that praying is just one more security blanket of Christianity. It makes zero impact on anyone but the person doing the praying.

Isn't this what you thought about prayer when you started this thread? If it's even just close, then how can all who have responded, have the exact same skewed outlook on prayer? That is unless you have been taking the select bits and pieces of other peoples posts to reinforce what it is you want to hear. That's a bit closed minded don't you think?

And for those who claimed to have witnessed a "miracle faith healing" due to prayer, I'll ask you this: why don't these 'faith healers' cure amputees?

Probably because they witnessed a specific event, and as a "wittiness" they have no control over the outcome.

Show me some irrefutable evidence of an amputee growing back his/her lost limb through 'faith healing' and then we'll have something to discuss.

Looking for "Irrefutable evidence" on any aspect of the true nature of God is a fool errand. It's like fishing in the sand, or trying to measure a specific gaseous compound with a bathroom scale. God does not reveal himself in such ways. (Through the Laws of fact and evidence.) If you were looking seek out God you need to look for him where He can be found. Like if it were fishing in the sand, Just because you know how to use, and have alot of fishing equipment, Fish will not leave there habitat just to get "caught" for you, where you are fishing in the sand.. If you want to catch a fish you must goto a body of water large enough to sustain life.

Like wise if you know God works in the realm of "faith" then why not look for Him there? We are told, If you can muster up faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains. So imagine the amount of pure faith you need to simply find God. Once you do you will be provided evidence, but on a personal level that can be "refuted" by all who wish to do so.. But, for you it will be concrete.

Also, why can't the 'faith healers' cure EVERYONE they meet?

One because "they" are not the one's Healing anyone. A true Healer is a tool of God, And God decides who to Heal, and simply uses the tool to do it. As I have said, those who would benefit spiritually by a "healing" get healed, and those who do not, don't.

What good would it be to have this body healed, just to loose your soul? What kinda of all Knowing All Loving do such a thing?

 

[weybourne1]

Not even Jesus was ever recorded as healing an amputee. When I asked the question about someone witnessing an amputee being healed, I should have phrased it differently: has anyone ever seen an amputee regrow his/her lost limb from 'faith healing'?

Also, if god is 'ALL loving', why aren't ALL the world's sick and injured healed?

Why just a select few?

I won't accept 'god works in mysterious ways' as a response.

I would feel pretty hurt if 'god' healed the guy in the hospital bed next to me, and then skipped over me and went off to heal other people. (hypothetical situation. I'm not actually in the hospital)

 

[solarwave]

And for those who claimed to have witnessed a "miracle faith healing" due to prayer, I'll ask you this: why don't these 'faith healers' cure amputees? ohhh right, because you can't fake that.

Don't they? I havn't seen an amputee healed but doesn't mean it hasn't happened. When my pastor was a child he saw a guys leg lengthened (it was too short). Its your choice how skeptical you wish to be about it.

Show me some irrefutable evidence of an amputee growing back his/her lost limb through 'faith healing' and then we'll have something to discuss.

Im unsure if you wouldnt believe it even if you were given evidence, but have you ever looked for evidence? Such as going to church or going to a meeting where there is a faith healer?

Also, why can't the 'faith healers' cure EVERYONE they meet? Why is it only a select few who are healed? Time constraints? Or could it be a very clever act?

It isn't the faith healers who heal, it is God, so it is Gods choice who He heals and that will be decided by His better plan due to His knowledge and wisdom.

Also, if god is 'ALL loving', why aren't ALL the world's sick and injured healed?

Miracles cant happen all the time otherwise it would destory the laws of nature and the world would be unpredictable since you would never know when God would change things.

I would feel pretty hurt if 'god' healed the guy in the hospital bed next to me, and then skipped over me and went off to heal other people.

It happens. Someone next to you can be heal and you might not. You can't say that is unfair because you nor the other people deserved it in the first place.

 

[weybourne1]

Are sports teams who pray to god for victory praying correctly? Or is that not considered by Christians as 'true prayer' ?

 

[ebia]

Not even Jesus was ever recorded as healing an amputee. When I asked the question about someone witnessing an amputee being healed, I should have phrased it differently: has anyone ever seen an amputee regrow his/her lost limb from 'faith healing'?

Also, if god is 'ALL loving', why aren't ALL the world's sick and injured healed?

Why just a select few?

At this point I think we need to track back a bit and see what a miracle is in New Testament thinking. It's not "proof of God" but neither is it the end in itself - as you implicitly note only a few people get healed in that kind of way even in Jesus' immediate proximity. Rather they are wonderous signposts of the future reality - the Kingdom of God - when all suffering will be healed. That longterm project began in the call of Abraham, came to it's climax in Jesus of Nazareth, continues in the church, and will come to completion at the final Resurrection. Healings now are 'sample bottles' so to speak, of that future reality.

And whether or not they can be explained by other means misses the point. The criteria for a miracle is that it inspires amazement and gratitude, not that it cannot be otherwise explained. Jesus sitting to eat with Matthew the tax collector is as much a miracle as his healing of the blind beggar. The reconcilliation Desmond Tutu has worked in South Africa is far more of a miracle than the regrowing of a hundred arms and legs.

They are signs (not proofs) of what God is doing to heal all creation - and invitations to get involved.

 

[drich0150]

Also, if god is 'ALL loving', why aren't ALL the world's sick and injured healed?

Why just a select few?

I won't accept 'god works in mysterious ways' as a response.

I would feel pretty hurt if 'god' healed the guy in the hospital bed next to me, and then skipped over me and went off to heal other people. (hypothetical situation. I'm not actually in the hospital)

As I said in my previous post:

As I have said, those who would benefit spiritually by a "healing" get healed, and those who do not, don't.

What good would it be to have this body healed, just to loose your soul? What kinda of all Knowing All Loving do such a thing?

God's primary concern is for your spiritual well being, not for your physical health. Whatever He decides will give you the best opportunity for you to grow spiritually. Which is far more important than your physical health.

Oh, and Jesus did reattach an amputated ear, of one of the temple guards that Peter removed with a sword in the garden of Gethsemane.

 

[drich0150]

<staff edit>

Having a person healed is far from the "Irrefutable evidence" that the OP is seeking. As I said even if people are genuine Healed someone some where will come up with a "scientific" explanation. I was diagnosed and tested positive with AIDS, was Healed and several tests later have since been cleared of the HIV virus.. And because my experience was not reproducible in a controlled setting it's been brushed aside by the medical community as a false positive test.. Even now when I speak of it because I did not have a arm or leg regrown before a national TV audience, I am made to think by non-believers that the scientific explanation reigns supreme here.. That is why I said you can not look for God in Irrefutable evidence, because someone somewhere looking to make a name for himself will shoot down what ever it is you bring them. However it is through Faith that God will reveal Himself to you. By using something that is near and dear to your own heart. But as with me and most of the rest of Christianity the evidence he reveals to you will only truly have value to you personally. And WILL be explained away by all who do not want to know God.

..And Just FYI I didn't go in for a random HIV test I was diagnosed or suspected of Having full blown AIDS because I developed a very aggressive skin Virus that only have been associated with people with AIDS or a seriously compromised immune system. I still have the scars to remind me of the treatment I under went to remove the growths I had on my Arms and upper body.. (15 years ago)

..So is this testimony evidence enough? or do you still seek "proof?" Your own proof perhaps? Do you like the OP need to see a limb reattached/regrown? I say that, because your "proof" will only truly matter to you. If you seek this Proof, then seek it from the source in prayer. Personalized proof is available, but rarely is it transferable to someone not looking for it themselves.

 

[Bro_Sam]

I've never understood it, even during the 27 years I was a Christian.

(And I'm referring to praying for other people, ie. terminally ill, recently deceased)

If you didn't understand prayer in the 27 years you were pretending to be a Christian, I doubt there's anything we can say in a few minutes here that will satisfy you.

 

[98cwitr]

I've never understood it, even during the 27 years I was a Christian.

(And I'm referring to praying for other people, ie. terminally ill, recently deceased)

any prayer, no matter what for, is to convey a need, want, desire, or appreciation to God. It is not "what" you pray for as more important "why" you are praying....