What does Luke 21:12 and 21:20 mean?

carolina16 · May 4, 2018

The Lord speaking of the signs of the end times

Luke 21:12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers by the name of My name."

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

Hidden In Him · May 4, 2018

carolina16 said:
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

Just as it reads. Has someone led you to believe it was symbolic or metaphorical?

Hidden In Him · May 4, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Just as it reads. Has someone led you to believe it was symbolic or metaphorical?

Btw, that wasn't meant to insult you or anything. I just kind of found your question a little curious is all.

Acts2:38 · May 4, 2018

carolina16 said:
The Lord speaking of the signs of the end times

Luke 21:12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers by the name of My name."

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

First it is important to note that the 4 gospels are actually all parallel accounts of the same events happening through 4 different peoples eyes. The 4 gospels are also directed toward different crowds but apply to everyone none the less.

Example:
Matthew was solely directed to Jews and how they would understand.

Mark was directed to Christian Romans

In Jewish culture and law, you needed the backing of 2-3 witnesses. Christ had 4 to account for His life here on earth and the things done.

Matthew 24 is a parallel account for Luke 21.

Matthew 24:4-35 is already in the history books and has been completed by the time 70 AD came around with the complete and utter destruction of Jerusalem.

Compare Matthew 24
"14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

The kingdom was completely preached to all the world according to Paul (Colossians 1:23) "...preached to every creature under heaven..."

The book of Col. is written approx. 10 years before Jerusalem's destruction and the obliteration of the Jewish Commonwealth and about 6 years from the start of the rebellion against Rome (see Roman-Jewish War)

Rome did indeed encompass Jerusalem with its armies (see Luke 21:21) and the desolation was to be the complete annihilation of the city and the temple. Hence Matthew 24:1-2.

The end times for the Jewish Commonwealth as a nation was then and it marked its end.

Our future is not going to have any signs, warnings, or announcements, see Matthew 24:36 ("but", indicating a transition to the next question the disciples had in verse 3) all the way into Matthew 25

Micah888 · May 4, 2018

carolina16 said:
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

You are quoting from the Olivet Discourse, and unfortunately, Luke did not maintain chronological order events. Luke was referring to what happened to Jerusalem and Judea around 70 AD, but since some of the words and phrases in this connection belong to a later time, it introduces some confusion. To understand where this fits, please place it after Matthew 24:2.

discipler7 · May 4, 2018

carolina16 said:
What does Luke 21:12 and 21:20 mean?
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

For the answer, we need to look at the history of the ancient Jewish nation or homeland, ie Judah/Judea/Israel.

At around 1500BC, through Moses, God delivered/saved the Jews from Egyptian slavery and gave the Jews His Law and also their own nation or homeland(= Judah/Judea/Israel) with "Terms and Conditions", as per DEUTERONOMY.28.

For unrepentantly breaking His Law/Word or Moses Law, God cursed/punished the Jews and their kings with suffering under foreign occupation/rule, beginning at around 800BC, ie ruled by the empires of Babylon, Assyria/Persia, Greece and Rome. During this period, through the Latter Prophets, God promised the suffering Jews a coming Messiah/Christ/Saviour, eg ISAIAH.9:6.(cf; JOHN.4:25, MATTHEW.16:16)

When Jesus the Christ/Messiah appeared on the scene in 30AD, the Jews and their nation(= Judah/Judea/Israel) were suffering under Roman rule.
....... The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah/Christ because they wanted a christ/messiah who would defeat the Roman occupiers and "save" their nation or kingdom of earth.(cf; JOHN.6:15) Hence, the Jews caused Jesus Christ to be crucified and persecuted His followers as heretics.(= LUKE.21:12)

Thereafter, the Jews appointed "false" christs/messiahs(MATTHEW.24:24) to lead them into armed rebellion = the Jewish-Roman Wars.(= LUKE.21:20 & MATTHEW.24:15) This culminated in the massacre of the Jews, destruction of the Holy Temple of God at Jerusalem and the wiping-out of the Jewish nation/homeland by the Roman Army in 70AD.
....... Some Jews ended up as refugees elsewhere, eg Europe. Similarly for the Jewish Christians who heeded Jesus's warning at LUKE.21:20.

carolina16 · May 6, 2018

Hidden In Him said:
Btw, that wasn't meant to insult you or anything. I just kind of found your question a little curious is all.

No one. The Word is full of metaphors. I supossed that.

Dave-W · May 7, 2018

carolina16 said:
Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

This one was exactly fulfilled in 70 ad. Rome came against Jerusalem to put down an uprising led by the Zealots. Titus had effected a siege. How does one flee to the mountains when there is a complete siege with no way out? Interestingly, Titus was ordered away by Rome to quell another uprising in Egypt. He returned a few weeks later and re-instituted his siege.

During the break, the New Covenant believing Jews in Jerusalem (who had been fighting along side the Zealots) hid out in the mountains. It almost completely severed ties between the Messianics and the traditional Jews.

Dave-W · May 7, 2018

Micah888 said:
You are quoting from the Olivet Discourse, and unfortunately, Luke did not maintain chronological order events. Luke was referring to what happened to Jerusalem and Judea around 70 AD, but since some of the words and phrases in this connection belong to a later time, it introduces some confusion. To understand where this fits, please place it after Matthew 24:2.

There is a problem with this understanding.

Our Lord spoke in Aramaic, a dialect of Hebrew. All semetic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic) are structured to have multiple layers of meaning. Even though the NT comes to us in Greek, the authors maintained the multi level structure. So not only is the Peshat (plain meaning) true; so are the other metaphoric levels.

Dave-W · May 7, 2018

discipler7 said:
When Jesus the Christ/Messiah appeared on the scene in 30AD, the Jews and their nation(= Judah/Judea/Israel) were suffering under Roman rule.
....... The Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah/Christ because they wanted a christ/messiah who would defeat the Roman occupiers and "save" their nation or kingdom of earth.(cf; JOHN.6:15) Hence, the Jews caused Jesus Christ to be crucified and persecuted His followers as heretics.(= LUKE.21:12)

Thereafter, the Jews appointed "false" christs/messiahs(MATTHEW.24:24) to lead them into armed rebellion = the Jewish-Roman Wars.(= LUKE.21:20 & MATTHEW.24:15) This culminated in the massacre of the Jews, destruction of the Holy Temple of God at Jerusalem and the wiping-out of the Jewish nation/homeland by the Roman Army in 70AD.

You are conflating two different wars, fought about 65 years apart. There were no false messiahs in the 70 ad rebellion. But in 135, the Zealot named Bar Kochba was declared "messiah" by the ruling rabbis.

That defeat was much worse than in 70. Not only was the re-built Jerusalem leveled again, Jews were forcibly removed from the entire province of Judea and scattered thru the entire Empire. It was then that the province got re-named "Palestina." Palestine.

discipler7 · May 7, 2018

Dave-W said:
You are conflating two different wars, fought about 65 years apart. There were no false messiahs in the 70 ad rebellion. But in 135, the Zealot named Bar Kochba was declared "messiah" by the ruling rabbis.

That defeat was much worse than in 70. Not only was the re-built Jerusalem leveled again, Jews were forcibly removed from the entire province of Judea and scattered thru the entire Empire. It was then that the province got re-named "Palestina." Palestine.

1JOHN.2: =
Deceptions of the Last Hour
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
.
.
1JOHN.4: = Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

JEWISH REVOLTS, GUERILLA MOVEMENTS, MASADA AND THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE | Facts and Details

Dave-W · May 7, 2018

discipler7 said:
JEWISH REVOLTS, GUERILLA MOVEMENTS, MASADA AND THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE | Facts and Details

One would think they should get their "Facts and Details" right in something named that.

discipler7 · May 7, 2018

Dave-W said:
One would think they should get their "Facts and Details" right in something named that.

The historical fact is that there were false christs or antichrists before and after the 1st Advent of Jesus the Christ to earth because in the Old Testament and Latter Prophets, God had promised the suffering Jews a coming Messiah/Christ to "save" them.

LittleLambofJesus · May 8, 2018

carolina16 said:
The Lord speaking of the signs of the end times

Luke 21:12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers by the name of My name."

Luke 21:
20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

Dave-W said:
This one was exactly fulfilled in 70 ad. Rome came against Jerusalem to put down an uprising led by the Zealots. Titus had effected a siege. How does one flee to the mountains when there is a complete siege with no way out? Interestingly, Titus was ordered away by Rome to quell another uprising in Egypt. He returned a few weeks later and re-instituted his siege.

During the break, the New Covenant believing Jews in Jerusalem (who had been fighting along side the Zealots) hid out in the mountains. It almost completely severed ties between the Messianics and the traditional Jews.

Great post and I agree that both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation is talking about the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem in the Great City that lies in the land of Jude and what is also shown in Revelation. I like Luke.........

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Reve 11:2/13:10]

Reve 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
[Luke 21:24]

reve 11:8
And their dead bodies [will lie] in the street of the great City which "spiritually" is called Sodom /[Jerusalem?]and Egypt/[Judea?], where also our Lord was crucified.
Deut 28:
15 " But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:.......
67 In the morning you shall say, ‘If only it were evening!’ and at evening you shall say, ‘If only it were morning!’ because of the dread that your heart shall feel, and the sights that your eyes shall see. (the sights in revelation?)
68 And the Lord will bring you back in ships to Egypt, a journey that I promised that you should never make again; and there you shall offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.” [Luke 21:24/Revelation 13:10]

If you look at Deut 28:68, it is almost a mirror image of Luke 21:24, Reve 13:10 and the 1st century destruction of Jerusalem and Judea.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

carolina16 · May 14, 2018

carolina16 said:
The Lord speaking of the signs of the end times

Luke 21:12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers by the name of My name."

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

I read the answers and none answered the question. He is not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, he is referring to the Apocalypse. "Luke 21:27 At that time you will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

yeshuaslavejeff · May 14, 2018

carolina16 said:
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

Jerusalem is Jerusalem.
Judea is Judea.

No reason otherwise as far as I know. Don't let others mislead you.

carolina16 · May 14, 2018

[QUOTE = "yeshuaslavejeff, post: 72664876, member: 96665"] Jerusalem is Jerusalem.
Judea es Judea.

No hay razón de lo contrario, hasta donde yo sé. No permita que los demás lo engañen. [/ QUOTE]
the meaning is other.

carolina16 said:
The Lord speaking of the signs of the end times

Luke 21:12 "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, handing you over to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers by the name of My name."

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you know that its desolation is near 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of their depart, and let not those who are in the country"
What is the meaning of Jerusalem and Judea in the end times?

Leí las respuestas y ninguna respondió la pregunta. Él no se está refiriendo a la destrucción de Jerusalén, se está refiriendo al Apocalipsis. " Lucas 21:27 En aquel tiempo verás al Hijo del Hombre viniendo en una nube con poder y gran gloria".

I read the answers and none answered the question. He is not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, he is referring to the Apocalypse. "Luke 21:27 At that time you will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

carolina16 · May 14, 2018

I read the answers and none answered the question. He is not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, he is referring to the Apocalypse. "Luke 21:27 At that time you will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

yeshuaslavejeff · May 14, 2018

carolina16 said:
He is not referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, he is referring to the Apocalypse.

You still don't get this ?
Jerusalem is still Jerusalem. As stated in the Scripture you posted.

carolina16 · May 14, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
You still don't get this ?
Jerusalem is still Jerusalem. As stated in the Scripture you posted.

"Luke 21:27 At that time you will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." He is referring to Apocalypse.

What does Luke 21:12 and 21:20 mean?

Jesus Christ is the Lord

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Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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