what does Luke 12:43 - 46 mean

[Bluelion]

So if I were to be selling pot. You see the pot, how do you know it is sinful?

Jesus said it is not wise to get drunk, i.e alter your conciseness by drink or other drugs. The reason being when your drunk it lets in spirits to the body ie why its called spirits in pa. Jews believe that is what make you drunk. so if drinking does that how much more so does drugs. I think again its true while its probably not a sin to smoke it its what you do while high that is. Just like getting drunk is not a sin but what you do is. Good question

 

[Bluelion]

You may ask God for guidance, you may determine it is against Gods will by thinking pot destroys both the body and mind. But how are you, going to save a brother if you don't judge the sin as sin? If you tell me gently that God says selling pot is wrong and it destroys the body and mind. I might say, Who are you to judge me? Even though, you said, God says it is wrong, I still say Whom are you to judge me. Why.. Because you are the one talking to me. It is your thoughts that say it is wrong. Where is God at? I don't see God, but I see you standing here telling me pot selling is wrong.
Turn it the other way. It does not say God will save a brother that is caught in a sin. It says if someone should bring him back, whomever turns him from the error of his ways... God is never mentioned as the one whom turns one from the errors of his ways.

How can a sinner turn a sinner? It is all God turning the person. God says obey the laws of man unless they conflict with His. that is why selling it is wrong. frankly I don't think you should be pointing out what they do is wrong you do wrong to, i think the person should be focus on Jesus and His love. Jesus said we are not to condemn because we have not been condemned.

 

[CharlesC]

James 5:19-21 tells us " My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the errors of his way will save him from death and cover a multitude of sins". So God does not always do the saving. We are to do it too, because we are to be Christ like in our attitude. We are suppose to be children of light, exposing the sins of the wicked. That is in Ephesians. So it isn't just God that tries to save sinners, we all are to be saved in Christ and are to try and save sinners too. That is one of the main jobs of a Christian. We should be sharing our testamony with others in hopes they get saved. We all sin. This is true. But as a Christian we take on a new life. Live for God and not our own selves. We think like Christ did.

 

[CharlesC]

Do you think Christ lives in you? Well, than Christ is in you and He wants out to spread the Gospel. Why would Christ live in you, if you did not try to promote the Gospel. He would not. He lives in us.

 

[CharlesC]

Theoredically God does the saving through us Christians. So God is in charge of us.

 

[now faith]

Can you explain this to me, so I have a better understanding of Luke 12:42-46. Why would Jesus cast one of his servant in with the unbelievers?

It looks like a parable that denounces once in Grace always in Grace theology.

In lay terms if your drunken living in sin when the Lord comes back you will be cast down.
It tells us that those who have been given the grace of God are expected to act like it.
Their punishment is worse than a common sinner because they know better but disobeyed anyway.

Luke: 12. 43. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46. The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled? 50. But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

 

[now faith]

All believers know what sin is. We do not need to look at others to find that out we simply need to look to our own heart. Knowing a brother is sinning isn't the same as judging it is simply a knowledge. To restore that brother we don't need to point the finger but remind him that sin was the reason that Christ died. We again preach the Gospel to them not point an accusative finger at them. We do not tell them that they are sinning, for if they are truly a brother they already know that, but remind them of the precious cost of sin to the Son of God. We are never to place guilt on a brother because all that will accomplish is to drive him away not restore him. Read and study 1Cor. 13 and pray the Spirit's guidance as to how we are to treat a brother.


Now who is a brother is a different question. I extend the right hand of fellowship with few. While I take people at their word that they are believers and do not question their salvation based on what they do or don't do I recognize that true believers are actually few at any given time. I listen to what they say about Christ and God which will always reveal the heart. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. There are at least two things every true believer knows: who God is in truth and who they are in truth. I do not judge their salvation I simply recognize a brother when I come across one. The spirit of a believer always discerns and communes with the spirit of another believer. We may be polar opposites in our personalities and the way we think but we always connect on the knowledge of God and His salvation in Christ. We may never have been able to be friends in the world but we are brothers in the spirit and are closer than any worldly ties of family or friends.

I have preached in many places all over the US in the last twenty some years and have only a few times not been among family.

Respectively I do not see two people pertaining to this passage.
I see two examples one faithfull,one corrupt.

 

[twin1954]

Respectively I do not see two people pertaining to this passage.
I see two examples one faithfull,one corrupt.

True. The thread morphed into a discussion of brother who is in sin because of the response from another poster who seemed to think that is what the passage is about. The passage is about exactly what I said it is.

 

[now faith]

James 5:19-21 tells us " My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the errors of his way will save him from death and cover a multitude of sins". So God does not always do the saving. We are to do it too, because we are to be Christ like in our attitude. We are suppose to be children of light, exposing the sins of the wicked. That is in Ephesians. So it isn't just God that tries to save sinners, we all are to be saved in Christ and are to try and save sinners too. That is one of the main jobs of a Christian. We should be sharing our testamony with others in hopes they get saved. We all sin. This is true. But as a Christian we take on a new life. Live for God and not our own selves. We think like Christ did.

It is always Christ who saved and the Holy Spirit who draws the sinner.
In James 5 :19 the expression is plural with a singular noun.

If we would think our works could bring salvation,then we could forgive sin.

The terminology is common in many aspects of creative writing.

As Blue Lion stated a sinner cannot save a sinner,therefore James intent was speaking to those in Christ.
Being a Christian we are called upon by the Holy Spirit to witness and bring the Gospel to the lost.

 

[Bluelion]

Do you think Christ lives in you? Well, than Christ is in you and He wants out to spread the Gospel. Why would Christ live in you, if you did not try to promote the Gospel. He would not. He lives in us.

Not everyone is to become a pastor, not everyone is to go and spread the Good News. Some inspire others just by living there life. Some are in line when a poor family can not pay their grocery bill and steps forward and pays it for them, and says thank God not me. That is what is called a seed. A person has to study for many years and very hard to preach the good news, if you go out and proclaim it right away, that person is the one Jesus warned that rejoice when hearing the word but when its challenge they fall away because they do not have deep roots. That is what is wrong today in Christianity to many people who don't have enough training preaching God's word. Did Jesus save any one and tell them Good preach my word, no he told them to follow me or to preach about what they new, God had healed them. You take preaching God's word to lightly. Those who preach His word are Judged harsher. You don't teach a kid how to read and then give him a novel and tell him read all that, but he must build up to it. Same with Preaching.

 

[twin1954]

Not everyone is to become a pastor, not everyone is to go and spread the Good News. Some inspire others just by living there life. Some are in line when a poor family can not pay their grocery bill and steps forward and pays it for them, and says thank God not me. That is what is called a seed. A person has to study for many years and very hard to preach the good news, if you go out and proclaim it right away, that person is the one Jesus warned that rejoice when hearing the word but when its challenge they fall away because they do not have deep roots. That is what is wrong today in Christianity to many people who don't have enough training preaching God's word. Did Jesus save any one and tell them Good preach my word, no he told them to follow me or to preach about what they new, God had healed them. You take preaching God's word to lightly. Those who preach His word are Judged harsher. You don't teach a kid how to read and then give him a novel and tell him read all that, but he must build up to it. Same with Preaching.

Nonsense! If God calls a man to preach His Gospel He prepares him for the task and it shows. It seems that you are the one who knows little about the preaching of the Gospel. Men cannot educate you in Gospel preaching it takes an act of God the Spirit. The problem with "Christianity" today is not that men are uneducated but that they are too educated.

 

[RDKirk]

Nonsense! If God calls a man to preach His Gospel He prepares him for the task and it shows. It seems that you are the one who knows little about the preaching of the Gospel. Men cannot educate you in Gospel preaching it takes an act of God the Spirit. The problem with "Christianity" today is not that men are uneducated but that they are too educated.

Umm, scripture shows us otherwise. The model we see in the New Testament for evangelism is:

Particularly gifted to some by the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4:11-12, I Corinthians 12:28)
Thoroughly trained in the gospel by the Church. (Acts 18:26)
Commissioned for specific evangelical mission by the Church. (Acts 3:12, 13)
Held accountable to the Church for his activities. (Acts 21:18,19)

This is not to say unequivocally that the Holy Spirit can't do things some other way, but it's up to you to prove on a case-by-case basis that He's done it some other way.

It is really just a case of the typical fleshly American cult of individualism to think that an evangelist can just go out and do things on his own. The New Testament is not about lone wolf Christianity.

OTOH, every Christian is called to be a witness who gives testimony to the work of Christ in his own life, and giving testimony is a different thing from evangelism. An evangelist tells people what Jesus did for them; a witness tells people what Jesus did for him.

When Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well, Jesus evangelized; the woman witnessed.

Because a witness tells what he or she knows personally--the direct first-hand experience that "witness" means--theological training is not required. In fact, the Samaritan woman's theology was not by any means firm even in her own mind ("Could this be the messiah?") Yet, her witness brought people to Jesus. The man born blind could not answer the questions hurled at him about what Jesus taught, but he could stand firm on what Jesus did for him: "I was blind, but now I see."

 

[Bluelion]

Umm, scripture shows us otherwise. The model we see in the New Testament for evangelism is:

Particularly gifted to some by the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4:11-12, I Corinthians 12:28)
Thoroughly trained in the gospel by the Church. (Acts 18:26)
Commissioned for specific evangelical mission by the Church. (Acts 3:12, 13)
Held accountable to the Church for his activities. (Acts 21:18,19)

This is not to say unequivocally that the Holy Spirit can't do things some other way, but it's up to you to prove on a case-by-case basis that He's done it some other way.

It is really just a case of the typical fleshly American cult of individualism to think that an evangelist can just go out and do things on his own. The New Testament is not about lone wolf Christianity.

OTOH, every Christian is called to be a witness who gives testimony to the work of Christ in his own life, and giving testimony is a different thing from evangelism. An evangelist tells people what Jesus did for them; a witness tells people what Jesus did for him.

When Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well, Jesus evangelized; the woman witnessed.

Because a witness tells what he or she knows personally--the direct first-hand experience that "witness" means--theological training is not required. In fact, the Samaritan woman's theology was not by any means firm even in her own mind ("Could this be the messiah?") Yet, her witness brought people to Jesus. The man born blind could not answer the questions hurled at him about what Jesus taught, but he could stand firm on what Jesus did for him: "I was blind, but now I see."

Thank you RD Kirk. Twin I think this answers your questions. I said a person must study hard, i never said on their own. Of course God trains those who are called, but then again I have been called and you don't respect that. You claim what you claim but have not been formally trained your self, so of course you are going to say any one can preach, because to claim other wise would mean you should not be preaching no? Please don't take offense I am speaking out of love. Jesus spent 30 years preparing for a 3 year ministry. The fact is Jesus gave the story about the seeds to address that issued others. I stand by what I said, its the same as not everyone can be a disciple. Jesus said this him self. Pastors are not necessarily disciple. As RD pointed out not everyone can be a pastor. Paul spoke of this also that there are different parts of the Body of Christ. not everyone is a hand or a foot. This speaks to different roles in the church. So you see not everyone is meant to preach the Good news or else there would be nothing but hands. How can a body stand with out feet, if it is head and hands where does food go, how does it move? You see the body needs feet just and much as feet needs hands, and legs and body and so forth.

 

[now faith]

Umm, scripture shows us otherwise. The model we see in the New Testament for evangelism is:

Particularly gifted to some by the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4:11-12, I Corinthians 12:28)
Thoroughly trained in the gospel by the Church. (Acts 18:26)
Commissioned for specific evangelical mission by the Church. (Acts 3:12, 13)
Held accountable to the Church for his activities. (Acts 21:18,19)

This is not to say unequivocally that the Holy Spirit can't do things some other way, but it's up to you to prove on a case-by-case basis that He's done it some other way.

It is really just a case of the typical fleshly American cult of individualism to think that an evangelist can just go out and do things on his own. The New Testament is not about lone wolf Christianity.

OTOH, every Christian is called to be a witness who gives testimony to the work of Christ in his own life, and giving testimony is a different thing from evangelism. An evangelist tells people what Jesus did for them; a witness tells people what Jesus did for him.

When Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well, Jesus evangelized; the woman witnessed.

Because a witness tells what he or she knows personally--the direct first-hand experience that "witness" means--theological training is not required. In fact, the Samaritan woman's theology was not by any means firm even in her own mind ("Could this be the messiah?") Yet, her witness brought people to Jesus. The man born blind could not answer the questions hurled at him about what Jesus taught, but he could stand firm on what Jesus did for him: "I was blind, but now I see."

Ephesians: 4. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Here in are the ministerial gifts.

Below is our commission in the Body


Revelation: 5. 9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Simply put all Christians are called to minister,but not all are called in the gifts of ministry or the spiritual gifts either.

 

[now faith]

Nonsense! If God calls a man to preach His Gospel He prepares him for the task and it shows. It seems that you are the one who knows little about the preaching of the Gospel. Men cannot educate you in Gospel preaching it takes an act of God the Spirit. The problem with "Christianity" today is not that men are uneducated but that they are too educated.

Amen!
They parrot the seminary rather than Preach the Word in or out of season.

To truly Preach you have to be ordained by God first.

 

[now faith]

Thank you RD Kirk. Twin I think this answers your questions. I said a person must study hard, i never said on their own. Of course God trains those who are called, but then again I have been called and you don't respect that. You claim what you claim but have not been formally trained your self, so of course you are going to say any one can preach, because to claim other wise would mean you should not be preaching no? Please don't take offense I am speaking out of love. Jesus spent 30 years preparing for a 3 year ministry. The fact is Jesus gave the story about the seeds to address that issued others. I stand by what I said, its the same as not everyone can be a disciple. Jesus said this him self. Pastors are not necessarily disciple. As RD pointed out not everyone can be a pastor. Paul spoke of this also that there are different parts of the Body of Christ. not everyone is a hand or a foot. This speaks to different roles in the church. So you see not everyone is meant to preach the Good news or else there would be nothing but hands. How can a body stand with out feet, if it is head and hands where does food go, how does it move? You see the body needs feet just and much as feet needs hands, and legs and body and so forth.

Keeping you in my prayers my Brother,one day soon I hope to see you in a pulpit.

 

[Bluelion]

Keeping you in my prayers my Brother,one day soon I hope to see you in a pulpit.

Thanks Brother. I don't know if that is what God has in mind for me or not, I just know He told me to jump and I did. Just spent all night preaching on face book. I love it, Jesus feeds me the Bibles verse i quote them and sent them out. It is so great to hear God. What a blessing we have, truly, a God who loves us so much He died for us and never leaves us.

 

[RDKirk]

Ephesians: 4. 7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Here in are the ministerial gifts.

Below is our commission in the Body


Revelation: 5. 9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Simply put all Christians are called to minister,but not all are called in the gifts of ministry or the spiritual gifts either.

"Minister" means "servant." The word most often translated as "minister" is diakonis, which is less often translated as "deacon."

IOW, nothing you have quoted indicates that every member is supposed to operate in every office, but that every member is to operation in some office...the ministry in the gift that he's given.

 

[now faith]

"Minister" means "servant." The word most often translated as "minister" is diakonis, which is less often translated as "deacon."

IOW, nothing you have quoted indicates that every member is supposed to operate in every office, but that every member is to operation in some office...the ministry in the gift that he's given.

I never implied that everyone is called to operate in every office,
nor would I think everyone is given a ministry gift.
As Christians we are called to witness the Gospel,that is all of our commission.
As far as ministerial or spiritual gifts that is up to God who he chooses.

 

[now faith]

"Minister" means "servant." The word most often translated as "minister" is diakonis, which is less often translated as "deacon."

IOW, nothing you have quoted indicates that every member is supposed to operate in every office, but that every member is to operation in some office...the ministry in the gift that he's given.

Minister can be used as a verb as your context would imply or a noun [ a minister of the Gospel]

The New Testament Greek translation refers to Bishop :

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."

Note the separate distinction of Deacon in same passage.

—King James Version