What does Judge Not mean?

[Beanieboy]

Luke 6
37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
39He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.

41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Often, I have heard people say that all this is really saying is that we should judge, just not judge with hypocracy.

I would understand that if it said, "Take out the speck in your own eye to see better and help your brother the speck out of his."

Instead, it says remove the plank from your eye before trying to remove speck from your brother.

That's very different from smoking, and telling a smoker he shouldn't smoke. It's more like being a drunk whose alcohol abuse has caused accidents, created problems at work, his family, who then says to his neighbor - "you shouldn't smoke."
He looks like an idiot - a guy with a plank in his eye, trying to poke out his neighbor's eye to remove the speck.

The bible talks a lot about what one should possess, and among them, the most important is love. If you don't have love, you are no more than a noisy gong, according to 1 Corinthians. That's a plank. You would be "poking out someone's eye" because you are trying to bring your neighbor down, not edifying him, by pointing out his faults, because you don't do it out of love, but out of selfish love of your own ego.

What do you think the passage means?

 

[r1nn]

Often, I have heard people say that all this is really saying is that we should judge, just not judge with hypocracy.

Why am I not surprised?

It makes no sense to me that Christians see a right for us to judge, when God judges us. So to judge others would mean to act as God.

The verses you posted say not to judge or condemn, but to forgive and to give. Near the end it explains that we should be concerned about our own actions, before thinking about another's actions.

I think it is fine to tell someone whether or not what they're doing is wrong, but we should do so humbly. And if the person does not listen to our advice, we should move on; and not condemn them for their actions--because haven't we made dumb decisions before? We should love each other, despite our mistakes. That's what God continues to do for us.
​

 

[ArchaicTruth]

I don't think we should judge, but I don't think we should go accepting apologies either, not until this person has learned their lesson.

 

[quatona]

I don't think we should judge, but I don't think we should go accepting apologies either, not until this person has learned their lesson.

How do you get the idea there is something to apologize for if you haven´t judged, in the first place?

And what gives you the idea that you are the person to decide who has to learn which lesson?

 

[quatona]

How can we get comfort from the idea of a god who will judge those who we feel have wronged us if we may not anticipate this judgement, at least a little bit?

 

[NavyGuy7]

How can we get comfort from the idea of a god who will judge those who we feel have wronged us if we may not anticipate this judgement, at least a little bit?

Please clarify. I'm not sure EXACTLY what you are saying with this.

 

[quatona]

Please clarify. I'm not sure EXACTLY what you are saying with this.

Basically, I am saying that the idea "do not judge" is inconvenient, and that we tend to find reasons to except ourselves from this good advice.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

When I say judge, I mean to say we shouldn't condemn them to punishment that is outside our jurisdiction, our jurisdiction being defined by earthly and logical laws

I'm sorry Quatona, you are completely right, if I ever see someone doing something foolish or idiotic, such as thievery or just common things like rude disrespect of others because of say, skin color, I'll just sit back and watch because it's not my job, not my problem.

 

[Beanieboy]

When I say judge, I mean to say we shouldn't condemn them to punishment that is outside our jurisdiction, our jurisdiction being defined by earthly and logical laws

I'm sorry Quatona, you are completely right, if I ever see someone doing something foolish or idiotic, such as thievery or just common things like rude disrespect of others because of say, skin color, I'll just sit back and watch because it's not my job, not my problem.

Rather extreme. As the verse mentions, remove the PLANK from your eye before removing the SPECK from another. Why is it that someone always says, "Oh! So if someone kills someone, I do nothing???" If you are being purposefully obtuse, I suppose you might be.

Putting one in jail isn't judging someone, but protecting society. Deciding that they are a bad person is judging someone, especially if you don't know them, and only know them by what you have seen on TV or the tabloids.

What do you think it means when it says to remove the PLANK from your eye before removing the SPECK from your neighbor?

 

[quatona]

When I say judge, I mean to say we shouldn't condemn them to punishment that is outside our jurisdiction, our jurisdiction being defined by earthly and logical laws

I´m not sure I understand what you are saying here. To me it sounds like: Don´t judge, unless when you feel you should judge or when others allow you the right to judge.

I'm sorry Quatona, you are completely right, if I ever see someone doing something foolish or idiotic, such as thievery or just common things like rude disrespect of others because of say, skin color, I'll just sit back and watch because it's not my job, not my problem.

I can dig a bit of sarcasm, but not so much if it attacks a strawman, based on a false dichotomy. I´m sure you didn´t use those fallacies intentionally.
With a bit of cognitive effort, can you think of other options besides judging a person and sitting back and watch?

 

[IzzyPop]

I try not to judge others...but some people make it soooo hard.

Actually that's a lie. I am a bit of a judgmental person. But I'm an atheist, so I can get away with it.

 

[chaz345]

Since there are other verses that clearly direct us TO judge I'm quite certain that the verse doesn't mean that we are not to judge at all.

But the word judge does have two rather different meanings, one of which it makes perfect sense from a Scriptural standpoint not to do and the other which makes perfect sense to do.

Judge in one sense means simply to compare to a standard. To decide the rightness or wrongness of something. No scriptural prohibition on that. The other sense of the word, to pass sentence, is what is being warned against.

 

[Beanieboy]

Here is a quote from Enyart (and more often, Enyartians): [quote}Today, many believers are effectively saying, “Lord, thanks but no thanks. I’ll pass on that judgment duty.” But Paul responds, Start judging now, because you will need the practice (1Cor. 6:2‑5). Remember, “He who is spiritual judges all things. For... we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15‑16). And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: “Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Prov. 24:25).[/quote]

The entire post can be found here:
http://www.enyart.com/writings/judge_rightly_is_not_some_guys_name

Do you agree that one should "practice judging" in this context?

One of the biggest flaws in his misuse of scripture. For example,

He praised a man who “rightly judged” (Luke 7:43).

Yes, he did. A prostitute came into the house of Simon the Pharisee, who was eating with Jesus. When Simon saw Jesus welcoming the woman, who sobbed at his feet, and washed his feet with her tears and wiped them clean with her hair, Simon thought, "Surely, this is not the Son of God or he would know what kind of man this is." Jesus, sensing this, said, "Who loves his master more, the one who is forgiven a large debt, or the one forgiven a small debt?" Simon answered, "the one forgive a large debt." Jesus answered, "You have judged rightly." She has washed my feet with her tears, and wiped them with her hair. You did not offer to wash my feet. She has annointed my head with oil, you have not."

In other words, Simon admitted that she showed him more love than he did himself. He wasn't "judging rightly" the prostitute.
He was judging rightly the lack of thankfulness and honor of his own heart.

Unfortunately, when I interacted with Enyartians, they took this to me that they should judge others, and practice doing so, as it is commanded.
They then quote:

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, may have known of this. For he said “the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgment on all” (Jude 14-15). The Lord with His saints will judge the world!
And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: “Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Prov. 24:25).
“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Cor. 6:2-5).

And from all of this, listening to the twisted message that was as skillfully put out of context by Satan when tempting Christ, they then feel that it not only ok to judge others, but their right and their duty. They also find it necessary not only to judge the saved (you aren't a REAL christian!), but also the unsaved, then scratch their heads when their heads when their holier than thou approach seems to have a repulsive effect on others. Again, running to scripture, they read, "Do you not know that before the world hated you, it also hated me?" So, if the world hates you, you must be doing something right!


One Christian even said that under Christ, he is no longer held to the law. He asked for forgiveness, was forgiven, so now, he doesn't sin ( because his sins are held to the law.) He is a sinless Christian! whiiiiich kind of makes you wonder - why would the bible have so many laws, regulations, calls for forgiveness, how to behave, how to act in love, if those who believe in the bible can more or less ignore them, and those who do not believe in the bible are held to them?

This is one current brand of Christianity alive and well, and despite its absolute lack of logic, allows a wolf to put on sheep's clothing, and continue to behave as a wolf in the name of Jesus.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

I´m not sure I understand what you are saying here. To me it sounds like: Don´t judge, unless when you feel you should judge or when others allow you the right to judge.

I was trying to word it the way Chaz and Beanie did in the posts prior to this, but failed miserably. It's been a rather off week for me.

I can dig a bit of sarcasm, but not so much if it attacks a strawman, based on a false dichotomy. I´m sure you didn´t use those fallacies intentionally.
With a bit of cognitive effort, can you think of other options besides judging a person and sitting back and watch?

Sorry about the sarcasm, but this all seems rather idiotically obvious to me, so it adds to my already mounting annoyance with some personal problems at the moment. The point was to completely mock your question.

Using Chaz's & Beanie's earlier definemens of "Judge" I believe that it is our duty to share what we have discovered for ourselves with others. That includes showing others that they are wrong, especially if they are committing moral mistakes. The best way to accomplish this is to guide them into a scenario where they find they must question themselves, if there are questions, then obviously there are answers, and you don't have them.

 

[Renton405]

Often, I have heard people say that all this is really saying is that we should judge, just not judge with hypocracy.

I would understand that if it said, "Take out the speck in your own eye to see better and help your brother the speck out of his."

Instead, it says remove the plank from your eye before trying to remove speck from your brother.

That's very different from smoking, and telling a smoker he shouldn't smoke. It's more like being a drunk whose alcohol abuse has caused accidents, created problems at work, his family, who then says to his neighbor - "you shouldn't smoke."
He looks like an idiot - a guy with a plank in his eye, trying to poke out his neighbor's eye to remove the speck.

The bible talks a lot about what one should possess, and among them, the most important is love. If you don't have love, you are no more than a noisy gong, according to 1 Corinthians. That's a plank. You would be "poking out someone's eye" because you are trying to bring your neighbor down, not edifying him, by pointing out his faults, because you don't do it out of love, but out of selfish love of your own ego.

What do you think the passage means?

Theres a difference between judging people and warning people..

In fact, if you do not warn people, and tell them about Christ their blood could be on your hands because you didn't warn them.. Thats why St. Paul was thrown in prison and flogged, because he was trying to warn people about their judgement and they wouldn't listen..He said clearly that neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, will inherite the kingdom of God. That is hard truth that people don't wanna hear..

We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law, with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, 5 kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching - Timothy 1:10

 

[Emmy]

Dear Beanieboy. When the Bible tells us not to judge, it means exactly that. God is our Judge, and God is a fair and righteous Judge. We must try and understand, not condone, nor condemn, and if it needs reporting, we must do so. we certainly do not walk away, when our fellow-human is being attacked or hurt in any way. Jesus is pointing out that men, or women, often see the wrong in other people, when they themselves, do worse. Jesus, our Leader, wants us to treat each other with love and consideration, He wants us to treat others, as we would like to be treated ourselves. I say this humbly and kindly, Beanieboy, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[chaz345]

When the Bible tells us not to judge, it means exactly that.

Then what do the other verses that tell us TO judge mean?
Again,like I said earlier it comes down to what exactly judge means. It has two distinct and rather different meanings, one of which we are supposed to do and the other of which we are specifically told to leave to God.

But let me ask this. If judge not is taken totally litterally and applied to all senses of the word judge, then how can we even say to our kids that they have done something wrong? Clearly there is one sense of the word judge, to compare against a standard, that we must do, and which it would make zero sense for the Bible to prohibit.

 

[gengwall]

Here is a quote from Enyart (and more often, Enyartians): [quote}Today, many believers are effectively saying, “Lord, thanks but no thanks. I’ll pass on that judgment duty.” But Paul responds, Start judging now, because you will need the practice (1Cor. 6:2‑5). Remember, “He who is spiritual judges all things. For... we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15‑16). And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: “Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Prov. 24:25).

This, of course, is biblical cherry-picking at it's worst. Paul, specifically, was speaking only regarding disputes within the body and applying wisdom in brotherly love to such disputes, rather than taking them to outside authorities who neither love us or follow Christ. Hardly a call to open Christ's court throughout the world. And it ignores Paul's proclamation immediately proceeding:

1 Cor 5: 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

There is a certain amount of correction that needs to be applied within the body and, to that end, a certain amount of inter-body judgement that takes place. BUT, it is always with an eye to our own sin that we should judge fellow believers humbly and in love. But as for those outside the community of believers, both Jesus and Paul say "hands off".

 

[chaz345]

But as for those outside the community of believers, both Jesus and Paul say "hands off".

Except for the fact that the very act of determining wether or not someone is a believer requires an act of judgement.

 

[gengwall]

Except for the fact that the very act of determining wether or not someone is a believer requires an act of judgement.

True, although I believe the OP is referring to judging sins. Maybe I'm wrong though. Others have alluded to how slippery the term is.