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Maybe re-read what I just wrote in my previous post to you, because what I previously wrote would essentially preclude this question of yours.What type of mistakes do you speak of that saved people never make?
yes
The person can be culturally moral, but becoming saved brings character change which is produced by God.
"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)
Jesus changes us so we have rest in our souls . . . because of how we are strong against fear and stress and anger and bitterness and unforgiveness and being dominated by pleasure drives and demands. But people can be humanly moral, but not deeply sound in Christ's rest which is supernatural and not only a product of changing my thinking and circumstances.
For a while, I was religious and did whatever I understood I was supposed to do. But I was a wreck in worry. And I didn't have a clue how to relate with people and feel for people. But I was moral and "nice". But deeply I could be building rage for months before it all exploded out at once. I did not have the peace almighty of God to keep me.
Once a person is saved, he or she can start to live and develop in God's peace.
You admitted the saved do make mistakes, but then you pointed out there are different kinds of mistakes and different intensities of mistakes. This gave me the impression that the type of mistakes the saved make are different than those mistakes the unsaved make. I was asking you what the difference are.Maybe re-read what I just wrote in my previous post to you, because what I previously wrote would essentially preclude this question of yours.
yesSo are you saying the saved has an inner peace the unsaved do not have?
I might have answered this in the post above. Yes, we can have turmoil; but like I say, we know better and have had experience with love and peace with God; so when we get away from this, we can get homesick.Do some saved have turmoil in their lives?
Well, if God has changed a person to trust Jesus, there has been a major character change in the person. So, my opinion is the person can't go all the way back to Satan and sin. But we can fail to a certain extent, but start realizing we are getting away from how we can be with God in His peace, and we get homesick to be loving like we know we can.Also if a person is trusting in Jesus for a while thus saved, then for whatever reason he quits trusting in Jesus, does he become unsaved? Or is he still saved.
Regarding how we are saved, when I first became a Christian I was shown these passages from Paul's letter to the Roman church, which I still return to:I suspect there might be various interpretations depending on denominations and if so, I was hoping I could get various perspectives of what it means to be saved
And what are we saved from? Death. We receive "eternal life", perhaps more literally translated as "life through the ages"....because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Ask Jesus into your heart. Believe Jesus. That He is Son of God, that God raised Him from the grave. He died for your sins, was raised for your justification.I suspect there might be various interpretations depending on denominations and if so, I was hoping I could get various perspectives of what it means to be saved
Jesus stands knocking at your heart. Have you ever asked Him into your heart?So if a person is raised in a Christian family were from birth he is taught to trust in all that Jesus did from the time he is capable of understanding, he has never been under the power of Satan and always try to be as good of a person as he can be, would it be fair to say this person was never unsaved thus always saved?
Through His Holy Spirit.When God teaches to do good works in obedience to his law, how does God teach people? Through visions? Dreams? Does he send representatives to teach? How does God teach? At what point during these teachings does one become saved? If you are already being the best you can be, does anything about you change when you become saved?
You admitted the saved do make mistakes, but then you pointed out there are different kinds of mistakes and different intensities of mistakes. This gave me the impression that the type of mistakes the saved make are different than those mistakes the unsaved make. I was asking you what the difference are.
yes
Actually, I should say we can have, but we also can get away.
And this peace which we can have is not possible for an unsaved person. Only through Jesus can we be with God > Jesus says >
I am the way, the truth, and the life; no comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)
But we need correction by God so we live in His peace.
You can read Hebrews 12:4-14, if you would, first, about what God's correction does. No human can do the correction which changes our character so we are sharing with God and submissive to God in His own peace. And this starts through Jesus, and trusting in Christ > Ephesians 1:12 > for salvation, in order to get started in this.
So > what I offer is no one gets into real peace without major correction, including how Jesus means for us to deny ourselves > Luke 9:23.
So, this peace is not only about changing our circumstances and deciding to see things differently. Someone unsaved can reform a thing or two and feel better; also a saved person can do a do-it-yourself thing or two, and feel nicer, but this does not change someone's character to be deeply strong in God's almighty peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:6-7)
But real peace comes with submitting to God, actively seeking how He is able to correct us, then being submissive to how He personally rules us in His own peace >
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
Unsaved people to not actively submit to howsoever God pleases to rule us, at any moment, in His own peace. And saved people have our ways of letting our attention go elsewhere. And we suffer because of this. But our basic calling > "called in one body" > is to always be with God in His peace and how He rules us in His own peace.
And Jesus Christ the Lord of all, then, personally rules us who obey Him in this peace . . . while unsaved people are ruled by how circumstances effect and control them and how >
"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5).
And we see how peaceful people can be while being dependent on how circumstances go . . . not exactly peaceful. However, saved people can also be emotionally and spiritually under the power of circumstances, but we can tend to know we need to not stay this way; we can get frustrated, stressed, even nasty angry reacting and unforgiving, but we know better. Because we know how Jesus guarantees us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) while we obey Him, and we know how Jesus wants us to forgive and not try to possess and control people; so when we get away from loving, we tend to get homesick to be back in the loving and peace we know we can have with God and one another . . . while unsaved people can fight things or just try to get back to how they can selfishly make things work.
I would say, very good understanding on your part.So if I understand you correctly, when God saves you he gives you an inner peace, and even though there may be turmoil in your life, it won’t be as bad as before God gave you the inner peace. Is this correct?
Yes, God does the saving.And when you become saved is more so when God saves you rather than you doing something to become saved; is that correct?
saved from our sins
saved from God's wrath
saved from suffering in fear and other anti-love chaos in us
saved from my self's character which makes me able to live in sin and stay weak enough to give in to selfish pleasure seeking and therefore also be weak enough to suffer in spiritual and emotional and mental chaos
yes, for eternityHow does it work? if you 're saved, is it for life (and presumably afterlife)?
I understand and trust that Biblical salvation starts with trusting in Jesus, and Jesus changes us from how we have been sinning. But then we keep getting more and more character correction > Hebrews 12:4-14, 1 John 4:17. So, we might still sin, but how we sin develops, and what we have for standards gets higher > for only one example >Or, if you sin again, are you then un-saved?
Well, yes God loves us unconditionally and He so generously forgives us, but this is our example required also of us. So, not only must I stop my sinning, but then God expects me also to unconditionally and generously forgive others >I suppose you can repent over and over again, and God will have patience...
I think you can see, from what I have offered above, it is not convenientEdied to add: I suppose saved means having Faith in Christ, regardless of your sins, very convenient.
stop the more obvious sinning
A bit off topic I know but I've always been curious. Who recorded the word of Jesus on the Mount, was there someone beside him writing it all down? I mean it is very long and very important word for word for Christians, so it can't just have been someone standing by remembering things, and then telling his son and so on. Always found that curious. Sorry for going OT.You might note how in the Sermon on the Mount
the more obvious sins
Note how I said "obvious" . . . not worse or more or less acceptable.Is there a scale to sinning? Do all Christians get one printed out so they know what sin is ok?
oops . . . I posted the quotes without my comments; please check back . . .
This improves on what I meant by "obvious" sins.I can already guess, the sins that people do everyday are not so obvious because people ignore them. have you coveted lately?
Like I have offered, God can remember what we might conveniently forget. He could have a writer remember.Who recorded the word of Jesus on the Mount,
This improves on what I meant by "obvious" sins.
Arguing would be another one which goes below the radar.
Like I have offered, God can remember what we might conveniently forget. He could have a writer remember.
I am now thinking . . . for an idea > Jesus gave that message, but then He spent personal quality time with the disciples. So, not only could the Holy Spirit have some one writer remember it all, but Jesus could have followed up on the Sermon that He would remember, and keep feeding it to them, plus having them act on it so they were better able to remember it, themselves. As we follow directions for something, we can better and better remember the directions.
So . . . this also is included in our on topic thing of what is involved in being saved > Jesus personally shares with us, making sure we get things; the Holy Spirit has us remember things. And there is demonstration of His word, in how God has us living what He means. And this, by the on topic way, helps to save us . . . from ourselves!! . . . as you, ximmix, have indicated we need . . . if we can just overlook certain wrong things. Then, we need to be saved from our own selves and therefore our own character, I would say.
And so, it is logical, then, I can see, why Jesus says a person needs to deny oneself in order to follow Jesus
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