What does it mean to be a "true" Catholic?

[BBCath]

Does it mean that one has to agree with everything the Church says?

Can one disagree with the Church's stance on an issue, but still agree to follow the Church's teachings?

If one is in the public eye in any capacity, can one publicly state that they disagree, but their actions say otherwise (in respect of the Church)?

 

[Irenaeus]

Hi BBCath!

I think there are two ways we can approach this.

Does it mean that one has to agree with everything the Church says?

No, but there are certain things we must believe or else we simply cease to be Catholic and become something else practically speaking.

Church Teaching, authoritatively taught, is infallible. If we don't believe that, nothing I am going to say now is going to make sense. If we want to go into why we believe that, that's for another post.

Now, not all Church Teachings are created equal. Many scholars and theologians have identified several 'levels' of infallibility. For instance, there are dogmas de fide credenda (which touch the heart of the faith) like the Trinity, the Incarnation and the Resurrection, that one cannot touch or dissent from without ceasing to be a Catholic, just like you can't have a four sided triangle. These must be held as an essential of the faith and believed as such.

Then there are doctrines de fide tenenda, or doctrines which are to be held definitively concerning the faith. They do not necessarily of themselves come from Revelation, but they are necessary corollaries which if denied threaten one's adherence to a dogma. These are to believed in that they are infallible as well. The difference here is highly technical so I hope I'm not being confusing.

There are lesser levels which require or urge greater or lesser forms of obedience. They are probable declarations on the part of the Church that may be disagreed with respectfully. These very rarely touch matters of faith and morals, and more often surround categories of "prudential judgment."

Can one disagree with the Church's stance on an issue, but still agree to follow the Church's teachings?

Yes someone can, but it depends what that is.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I'm not sure but I think it means that someone else who thinks that they are "true" Catholic agrees with your moral outlook.....

 

[Root of Jesse]

You must follow the teaching of Jesus Christ as taught by the Magisterium, supported by the Bible and Apostolic Tradition.

If you have specific questions, please ask. It is always ok to question Church teaching, as in "Why does the Church teach XYZ?" It's really hard to believe that a flat wafer can become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus. But believe it, we must. Belief takes faith.

Remember that Christ couldn't do much for humanity without humanity's explicit belief in Him. That's why he couldn't do much in Galilee. But someone who had faith was instantly healed.

http://www.theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm not sure but I think it means that someone else who thinks that they are "true" Catholic agrees with your moral outlook.....

Charlie, sometimes I think questions like "How can someone who thinks XYZ be a good Catholic?" But I try to never judge how good a Catholic someone is. That's God's job.

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie, sometimes I think questions like "How can someone who thinks XYZ be a good Catholic?" But I try to never judge how good a Catholic someone is. That's God's job.

There, but for the grace of God, go I.

Very cool.

But see some of the threads on this board involving "scandal" for examples of my point above

 

[Root of Jesse]

Very cool.

But see some of the threads on this board involving "scandal" for examples of my point above

I know. When it comes to my Catholic faith, I look to God, and try to be the watering can of His grace, and spread it. I tend to try to look past human faults, unless they affect me directly. Then I try to deal with them personally. That's what I mean when I say "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

 

[Michie]

A person that follows Church teachings to the best of their ability in & out of the Church. Even if they struggle with certain teachings they still strive to follow them.

There are too many that are not honest when discussing what the Church teaches. Why? I don't know.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Does it mean that one has to agree with everything the Church says?

Can one disagree with the Church's stance on an issue, but still agree to follow the Church's teachings?

If one is in the public eye in any capacity, can one publicly state that they disagree, but their actions say otherwise (in respect of the Church)?

Believe - Obey - Sacraments for graces - Avoid sin.
Pretty much - there isnt anything to disagree with. We have to trust that God's laws remain intact in His Church.
If we disagree with the Church - we disagree with God Himself.

 

[Standing Up]

FWIW, this might help understand some.

Bishop Fellay added:

We are Catholic, we recognize the pope and the bishops, but above all else we must keep intact the Faith, source of God’s grace. Therefore we must avoid all that may endanger the Faith, without trying to become a replacement for the Church, Catholic, Apostolic, and Roman. Far from us the idea of establishing a parallel Church, of exercising a parallel magisterium!

​

Whatever "the Faith" is takes precedence for him.

 

[QuantaCura]

The Church has explained who a true Catholic is a bunch of times. Here's a couple recent examples:

Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium:

They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis:

Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.

Note, as Pius XII notes in the paragraph after the one I posted above, the three sins that separate one from the Church--and therefore make one not a Catholic--are heresy, schism, and apostasy.

Here's how the Church defines these in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2089 "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

So to sum up, to be a true Catholic, you have to be baptized, believe all the truths of faith, and be a subject of and in communion with the Pope and those subject to him.

 

[BBCath]

If we disagree with the Church - we disagree with God Himself.

This is the statement that bothers me. I've heard it said a number of times.

For example, (assuming that I was Catholic) let's say that I don't agree with the Church's stance on the use of birth control, but I never use it myself because of the Church's stance on it.

Does that mean that I disagree with God?

And because I disagree with God/the Church, does that mean I'm headed for eternal damnation (in the Church's eyes)?

Would I no longer be a "true" Catholic?

 

[Michie]

This is the statement that bothers me. I've heard it said a number of times.

For example, (assuming that I was Catholic) let's say that I don't agree with the Church's stance on the use of birth control, but I never use it myself because of the Church's stance on it.

Does that mean that I disagree with God?

And because I disagree with God/the Church, does that mean I'm headed for eternal damnation (in the Church's eyes)?

Would I no longer be a "true" Catholic?

I think WA meant that the Church's teaching are guided & protected by the Holy Spirit. Which makes the teachings infallible.

If you by faith, obey what the Church teaches even though you struggle with it...you're good.

God knows your heart.

It's one thing to know & reject the truth. It's another to not understand/struggle it but obey anyway.

 

[Elvisman]

This is the statement that bothers me. I've heard it said a number of times.

For example, (assuming that I was Catholic) let's say that I don't agree with the Church's stance on the use of birth control, but I never use it myself because of the Church's stance on it.

Does that mean that I disagree with God?

And because I disagree with God/the Church, does that mean I'm headed for eternal damnation (in the Church's eyes)?

Would I no longer be a "true" Catholic?

We must remember that Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church to ALL truth (John 16:12-15) - and he only built ONE Church.

He also told them that whoever listed to or rejected them - listened to and rejected HIM (Luke 10:16).

St. Paul tells us that this ONE Church is the fullness of Christ.
He also states that it is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

The question is - How can you reject any part of the fullness of Christ and not claim to be rejecting HIM?

 

[Elvisman]

FWIW, this might help understand some.

Bishop Fellay added:

We are Catholic, we recognize the pope and the bishops, but above all else we must keep intact the Faith, source of God’s grace. Therefore we must avoid all that may endanger the Faith, without trying to become a replacement for the Church, Catholic, Apostolic, and Roman. Far from us the idea of establishing a parallel Church, of exercising a parallel magisterium!

​

Whatever "the Faith" is takes precedence for him.

Yes, well "Bishop" Fellay is also a schismatic dissident who doesn't believe in obedience to the Church (Matt. 18:15-18).

He follows his own will instead of the will of God.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This is the statement that bothers me. I've heard it said a number of times.

For example, (assuming that I was Catholic) let's say that I don't agree with the Church's stance on the use of birth control, but I never use it myself because of the Church's stance on it.

Does that mean that I disagree with God?

And because I disagree with God/the Church, does that mean I'm headed for eternal damnation (in the Church's eyes)?

Would I no longer be a "true" Catholic?

Obedience is the key, I think. Although there are more ways than doing the act to commit a sin...

What I suggest you do is, for those disagreements you have, you speak up and ask questions in RCIA, or here. Maybe if you knew why the Church is against birth control, you'd be able to understand it.

For example, just for a start on that subject, did you know that many birth control pills have an abortifacient component? Meaning that, if someone did get pregnant (meaning sperm met egg and became a human being), the pill will make the uterus inhospitable for hosting the embryo, and it will die.

That's just one facet of a multi-tiered question. Understanding the Church's teaching on what sexual intercourse is for in humans might help, too.

Let me finish by telling you that nobody who ever lived on the Earth since Christ came and died and rose, has ever been a perfect Catholic-meaning followed everything Christ told us to do all the time from age of reason until death. But Christ, and God knew that we're not perfect. Mother Theresa said that we're not all called to be perfect, but we are all called to be saints. A saint is a sinner who persevered in seeking the will of God.

Do not be afraid to ask questions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

We become true Catholics when we are Baptized and when we affirm our Baptismal Promises.

V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. Amen.

Jim

 

[Zeek]

We become true Catholics when we are Baptized and when we affirm our Baptismal Promises.

V. Do you reject Satan?
R. I do.
V. And all his works?
R. I do.
V. And all his empty promises?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
R. I do.
V. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
R. I do.
V. God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
R. Amen.

Jim

Wow... I qualified.

 

[Tigg]

A person that follows Church teachings to the best of their ability in & out of the Church. Even if they struggle with certain teachings they still strive to follow them.

There are too many that are not honest when discussing what the Church teaches. Why? I don't know.

Agreed.

There has only been one true Catholic in the history of the Church - Jesus. The rest of us struggle in various ways of success, to follow the Catholic precepts - Jesus way.

 

[Michie]

Agreed.

There has only been one true Catholic in the history of the Church - Jesus. The rest of us struggle in various ways of success, to follow the Catholic precepts - Jesus way.

Amen.

Have I told you how awesome I think you are lately?