What does it mean to academically train your mind?

[Neve]

I doubt it.

"Academically trained" implies and requires a standard that those who are so trained can be measured against. This necessitates a rigid structure that cannot be deviated from, else one is not truly academically trained in the sense of the word. This is what being an accredited school means.

Also, I have attended more than one university.

To break the rules of academia, you must first know the rules. The great painters like Pablo Picasso, Jackson Pollock, Henri Matisse, and Arshile Gorky knew this and had formal art training before deviating from it.

 

[ImperatorWall]

To break the rules of academia, you must first know the rules. The great painters like Pablo Picasso, Jackson Pollock, Henri Matisse, and Arshile Gorky knew this and had formal art training before deviating from it.

To view academia as rules to be broken once one is educated enough is to submit the mind to it's rigid frame.

Structure is the killer of intuition and rules the crippler of the imagination.

Through these two things are built presuppositions that have far reaching implications, and once built, are extremely hard to undo. Unfortunately, our educational system starts building them at such a young age that most people never realize they have them.

 

[Neve]

My example is taken from one subject area (art).

Learning the rules gave painters, like Jackson Pollock and Matisse, the skills and imagination necessary to break/deviate from them. Picasso was the son of a very respected art professor. Pollock studied with a very prominent artist. Gorky was an art professor himself. How do you explain all this?

 

[ImperatorWall]

My example is taken from one subject area (art).

Learning the rules gave painters, like Jackson Pollock and Matisse, the skills and imagination necessary to break/deviate from them. Picasso was the son of a very respected art professor. Pollock studied with a very prominent artist. Gorky was an art professor himself. How do you explain all this?

Understanding rules does not in any way endow someone with skill and imagination. That is my point, and that was the point I made my first post in this thread.

It's a false correlation.

 

[Neve]

Understanding rules does not in any way endow someone with skill and imagination. That is my point, and that was the point I made my first post in this thread.

It's a false correlation.

So you are saying that skill and imagination are not learned? It's inherent in some individuals and not others?

 

[ImperatorWall]

So you are saying that skill and imagination are not learned? It's inherent in some individuals and not others?

Some people have an inclination for certain skills and imaginative thought more than others, but it can be fostered and learned at any age. It is inevitable that some will be better at it than others, but that's life.

You just won't find that happening in the context of academia. They stifle it. They believe in the false correlation, and because they do, don't understand all the evidence contrary to it.

 

[crishmael]

I'm going to agree with Neve and have to say it refreshing to read something a bit more positive about higher education on this forum.


I hope I didn't speak too soon.

Give it time ...

 

[Jupiter Drops]

I decided not to answer the question on being "cultured, refined, and enlightened" because it is a very snobby question to ask and it gives higher education a bad reputation. The answer is also subjective. In undergrad, I took several art history classes, including a class with a very famous art historian, yet that hardly makes me cultured, refined, or enlightened.

I didn't know that it was snobby of someone to ask a question about being refined.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

The first thing that came to mind about this thread was this, 1 Corinthians 1:25-31

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[ImperatorWall]

The first thing that came to mind about this thread was this, 1 Corinthians 1:25-31

But don't fall into the trap of trying to forsake all knowledge for some form of Christian mysticism.

Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom [is] the principal thing; [therefore] get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

I will always choose the Holy Ghost's teaching over men...

Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

You know, I already figured that someone would post that verse.

But IW is also correct.


Anyway, it's a shame to learn that you had such an unfortunate time at university, IW. I would call it more of a robot training. No intellectual discussion, no questions raised, etc. I had a wonderful ontologist as a professor in my first year in college. He let everyone discuss about human nature, questions about truth, the state of being, and so on. He let it very open in class, and we were able to choose our topics and write it as our final essay.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

I will always choose the Holy Ghost's teaching over men...

Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Nom, thanks for bringing these verses out.

However, I also hope that you're not quoting these verses to decide not to study about what is happening in our contemporary world. We are not of this world, but we do live in this world. It's important for us to learn about what is happening here as well as developing relationship with God.

It's important to be aware of the dangers of our society, and to correctly train our minds so that we don't fall into traps easily. We will be in great danger if we are blind.

Most importantly, it is important to wake up our spirits. We must be able to discern.


God first, always. Whatever you do, do it for God. Everything good comes from Him.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

And I understood this thread to be nothing more than humanism, I figured discussing the value of Yahweh in this thread was not going to be taken; after all, if you cannot understand the Earthly things, how could you understand the Heavenly ones?

The world is but a veil, and those who continue to live here are never happy... always needing more, cannot see the Grace of God and miracles bestowed upon this place; they'll die content being miserable, and almost always look to an answer at the end, when it is too late

 

[Nom De Guerre]

I believe it's important to make conscious decisions, but as far as needing to be "to be cultured, refined, and enlightened"... those are nothing more than traits of a self-centered being - minus the 'enlightened' part; unless, of course, you mean to be cultured in Grace, refined by the Holy Ghost in compassion, and enlightened in love, but by the discussion going on I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

It is written:

1 Corinthians 10:24-26

24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

 

[Jupiter Drops]

^ Yes, that does make sense.

But let's look at things in more positive light. It's better to learn than to not learn. It was better for us to know about God than to not know Him. He is our Light.

We can do whatever we can for the glory of God. This also includes learning. To learn with God and to learn for God is a great thing in life, and is a great achievement. It brings a lot of joy to the person and glory to our Father.

I can see why this thread may be viewed in a negative way, but it wasn't meant to be that way. Being cultured and refined means that you can also have better understanding of other people's ways. Enlightened also means spiritually aware. What good is it if you're not spiritually aware? How can you help anyone if you can't help yourself?

If you develop yourself, you can use that development to serve others. Look at it in Christian way and not in a worldly way. You can make positive changes to yourself to make positive contributions to others.

I didn't get the understanding Earthly things and understanding Heavenly things. I think there's a distinction between these two, unless I'm mistaken.

What you said at the last part sounded a lot like Plato's cave allegory. The world will always be in a veil unless they actually see light.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

And there lay the false dichotomy... that Heaven and Earth are each distinctly different. Everything is Yahweh's, who down here could ever understand how it was formed? Who down here could replicate its existence?

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Isaiah 45:7-12

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

 

[ImperatorWall]

I will always choose the Holy Ghost's teaching over men...

Colossians 2:8-9
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Sorry Nom, but the Holy Ghost also says that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. You disobey the Holy Ghost if you deny being held accountable to other believers (men) in what you believe.

 

[Nom De Guerre]

I am accountable to Yahweh, you wish to judge my spirit, by all means... but your works, and any other works of men will never be His; every prophet only knowing as far as Yahweh allowed them. You're not greater than He, nor any of His prophets. Yahweh will fashion His will according to His desire.

 

[ImperatorWall]

I am accountable to Yahweh, you wish to judge my spirit, by all means... but your works, and any other works of men will never be His; every prophet only knowing as far as Yahweh allowed them. You're not greater than He, nor any of His prophets. Yahweh will fashion His will according to His desire.

His will is that you are accountable to other believers. I'm not making this up, it's out of the same Bible inspired by the Holy Spirit as the rest of the verses you are quoting.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.