What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

2Timothy2:15 · Aug 27, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Review my post #30. Paul is referring to the Church.

Quasar92

Been in a church lately? Pretty much all of them are knee deep in prosperity gospel nonsense....fairly certain this is exactly what he was talking about.

jgr · Aug 27, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The Scriptures, the context of that passage of Scripture and the historic translation of it, provided for you many times over - all refute you. I can also prove you to be in error by going to all of those you have invited me to do so. No matter how long and hard you try to alter the meaning of 2 Thess.2:1-8 from Paul's reference to it as a rapture of the Church, to a falling away of it, will never happen. Only to those of you who refuse to admit the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Churc, calling them all liars.

Quasar92

Carry on refutin'. It's indeed unfortunate that you haven't noticed that the ears of truth and history are deaf to your intransigent insistence, but you never will.

"I can also prove you to be in error by going to all of those you have invited me to do so."

I confess that I'm unable to understand that statement. Have you gone to the NASB translators? If so, post what they had to say.

toLiJC · Aug 27, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Review my post #30.

Quasar92

man, the numbers, days, weeks, years, etc. have special spiritual meaning(s) - the things described/explained in those prophesies have already been experienced by many Saints

Galatians 4:10-11 "You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Blessings

GoldenKingGaze · Aug 27, 2017

This would be the author's background concept:

Psa 101:3 (ESV) I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me.

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

2Timothy2:15 said:
Been in a church lately? Pretty much all of them are knee deep in prosperity gospel nonsense....fairly certain this is exactly what he was talking about.

Douggg said:
No, not Jesus, but the person is not the revealed man of sin when he (as the Antichrist) confirms the covenant with many for 7 years. In the midst of the week, when he stops the daily sacrifice - that is when he is revealed as the man of sin - right?

The person is only the Antichrist while he is in the role of being the King of Israel (illegitimate).

Q, it is extremely important as to how we refer to the person.

1. starts off as the little horn (not yet the Antichrist)
2. becomes the prince who shall come, who is anointed
3. the king of Israel, making him the Antichrist
4. stops the daily sacrifice, does the 2thessalonians2:4 act, revealed as the man of sin. ends his time as the Antichrist, no longer the King of Israel, thought to be messiah.
5. becomes the beast of Revelation

______________________________________________________________

Q, I am going to annotate when the falling away of 2theesalonians2:3 is going to take place...

1. starts off as the little horn (not yet the Antichrist)
2. becomes the prince who shall come, who is anointed
3. the king of Israel, making him the Antichrist (the falling away takes place at this time, as many in Christianity will think the jews were right all along)
4. Oh no! Thought to be messiah stops the daily sacrifice, does the 2thessalonians2:4 act, revealed as the man of sin. Jews are mortified, ends his time as the Antichrist, no longer the King of Israel, thought to be messiah.
5. becomes the beast of Revelation

The person who is the Abtichrist, is that same person as identified in the Scriptues, frokj the beginning to the end, as follows:

What is the Antichrist known as in the Bible?

1 Jn.2:18 is the only place in the Bible where the term Antichrist is found. But he is referred to by a number of different terms as recorded below, and where to find them:

1. He is the "little horn" in Dan.7:8;

2. He is known as a "stern faced king, in Dan.8:23.

3. He is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27.

4. The king who exalts himself in Dan.11:35-45.

5. In 2 Thess.2:3, 4, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness."

6. In 2 Thess.2:8-9, he is referred to as the "lawless one."

7. In Rev.11:7; 17:3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, he is called the beast.

8. In Rev.13:1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, he is called the beast out of the Sea.

The beast out of the earth in Rev.13:11-17 is the False Prophet and the activity he is involved in:

Rev.13:11"Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name"

When Jesus returns in His second coming with His armies from heaven, He will defeat both beasts, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Throw them in the lake of fire, and destroy the armies of the ten horns/nations allied to them, recorded in Rev.19:11-21.

Quasar92

Hal A Peno · Aug 27, 2017

Adstar · Aug 27, 2017

The falling away is Apostacy.. It's falling away from the truth into deception and delusion in regard to God and His will..

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
Why is it we don't see much of "your own composition." I have trouble believing you wrote much of anything. Sorry, most I ever see from you is copy and paste from people who are just as misled as you.
I have qualifications too. I have a web site too. I went to a bible college too. I'm a former pastor too. It all amounts to nothing when it comes to acquiring AND ACCEPTING truth.

FYI, the OP and post #45 are my composition, for starters, plus most all of the in between. How would you know the difference, unless I put a source to the post? As it is with all sideline parasites.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Adstar said:
The falling away is Apostacy.. It's falling away from the truth into deception and delusion in regard to God and His will..

The OP reveals what the proper translation history is, and was used from the time it was first written, for the first 13 centuries +, to the time it was altered to apostasy/falling away, in the 17th century, for the past 4 centuries.

Review the OP.

Quasar92

Adstar · Aug 27, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The OP reveals what the proper translation history is, and was used from the time it was first written, for the first 13 centuries +, to the time it was altered to apostasy/falling away, in the 17th century, for the past 4 centuries.

Review the OP.

Quasar92

Well i disagree with the OP... That should be clear enough..

Hal A Peno · Aug 27, 2017

cghuk

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Adstar said:
Well i disagree with the OP... That should be clear enough..

which is the same scenario as those who disagreed with Jesus.

Quasar92

Adstar · Aug 27, 2017

Quasar92 said:
which is the same scenario as those who disagreed with Jesus.

Quasar92

Nooooo.... I believe Jesus..

The opening poster is definitly not the returned Messiah Jesus.. Of that i am assured..

Hal A Peno · Aug 27, 2017

dftgjh

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Adstar said:
Nooooo.... I believe Jesus..

The opening poster is definitly not the returned Messiah Jesus.. Of that i am assured..

One thing is certain, you don't read. There were many more who did not believe in Jesus than those who did - during His first advent. The same as your not believing a qualified teacher of the Bible.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
You are calling them and us liars for disagreeing with you. I'm sick of that kind of talk. You pervert the words of Jesus, Mathew, Luke, John, and Paul. I understand why people are Preterist, it's a cop out. I don't understand why people accept pre-trib with it's very long list of fabrications and contradictions.

Daniel Speck wrote a page entitled the very same as mine.

"Preterism, the only thing worse than pre-trib." and he's right.

The following link consists of four posts pertaining to the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, in the first two. The Third, is the chronological order of end time events. The fourth is a listings of highly esteemed men, who represent every teachings of Christianity, who fully support the first three posts. And they are all right. They are all my composition.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church - a deeper walk...

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
You are calling them and us liars for disagreeing with you. I'm sick of that kind of talk. You pervert the words of Jesus, Mathew, Luke, John, and Paul. I understand why people are Preterist, it's a cop out. I don't understand why people accept pre-trib with it's very long list of fabrications and contradictions.

Daniel Speck wrote a page entitled the very same as mine.

"Preterism, the only thing worse than pre-trib." and he's right.

<SNIP> Meaningless opinion without a shred of support to verify your claims.

Quasar92

Anto9us · Aug 27, 2017

I am not convinced that APOSTASIA in 2 Thess means a physical departure, I see it as a religious defection or forsaking.

The word is only used one other time in the New Testament, Acts 21 - and there it was what the Jews accused Paul of doing -- teaching people to FORSAKE Moses -- no physical departure involved there...

The word is used at least three times in Septuagint version of Old Testament -- I am going to research its use there and see if ANYWHERE it could be seen as a physical departure by any stretch

Even when I used to be an ardent pre-tribber, I never heard anyone say the FALLING AWAY in 2 Thess was the RAPTURE, never heard that as a case for pre-trib.

I am currently not committed to any particular eschatology, I am interested in this word APOSTASIA.

Mormons think it means the post-apostolic church falling away so bad that the Church needed a RESTORATION, wow, this one word means many different things to many groups -- they cannot all be correct.

Quasar92 · Aug 27, 2017

Hal A Peno said:
You are calling them and us liars for disagreeing with you. I'm sick of that kind of talk. You pervert the words of Jesus, Mathew, Luke, John, and Paul. I understand why people are Preterist, it's a cop out. I don't understand why people accept pre-trib with it's very long list of fabrications and contradictions.

Daniel Speck wrote a page entitled the very same as mine.

"Preterism, the only thing worse than pre-trib." and he's right.

To the contrary! I call no one liars! My response to those who post errors in the interpretation of the Scriptures are refuted by the Scriptures. With that having been said, by your words, it is the Scriptures that call them liars.

Quasar92

Anto9us · Aug 27, 2017

One of the times APOSTASIA is used in Septuagint is

Joshua 22:22

The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)

22:22 ὁ θεὸς θεός ἐστιν κύριος καὶ ὁ θεὸς θεὸς κύριος αὐτὸς οἶδεν καὶ Ισραηλ αὐτὸς γνώσεται εἰ ἐν ἀποστασίᾳ ἐπλημμελήσαμεν ἔναντι τοῦ κυρίου μὴ ῥύσαιτο ἡμᾶς ἐν ταύτῃ

No physical departure in this context, the 2 1/2 tribes that built an altar are involved

What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?

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