What does "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" mean in Acts 13:48?

[AvisG]

What does "as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" mean in Acts 13:48?

I am neither a Calvinist nor a non-Calvinist, but there are some pretty clear predestination verses in the Bible that require some fancy tap-dancing to explain away.

The standard tap-dancing is to say that these verses are talking about corporate predestination. God predestinated (and foreknew) that the body of people who came to Christ would be saved.

It seems to me that this reduces verses like the above to tautologies: "As many of those who had been ordained to believe, believed." That's not illegitimate, but it doesn't strike me as convincing. The "pots questioning the potter" verses are also highly problematical for non-Calvinists.

 

[-57]

But it is up to the individual to decide if they are to believe or not under the time or times within their life that GOD illuminates them in order to see the truth of the gospel.

What is that decision based upon? Under your particular theology why do some say yes and some say no?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What is that decision based upon? Under your particular theology why do some say yes and some say no?

I believe Prevenient Grace is the best way to harmonize what Scripture says as a whole on this topic. Prevenient Grace is the belief that God draws men at certain times to see and understand the gospel so as to choose it or reject it of their own free will. Without this illumination or drawing by God, a person cannot understand the gospel. For in the Parable in the Sower, we learn that the first seed did not even understand the gospel message. The devil stole the seed out of their heart before they could understand it (Matthew 13:18-19). So there are times where a person can hear the gospel and not understand it because they have not been drawn by God yet. Yet at other times, God will open the hearts of people to hear the truth. In one instance, God opened the heart of Lydia to hear the gospel (Acts of the Apostles 16:14). But God will draw all men unto Him in His timing.

This is not at the expense of free will of man, but it is in harmony with it. God chooses a time (or select times) for mankind to understand the gospel (under His illumination) to either accept it or reject it, and then it is up to him (or her) to accept it or not.

But make no mistake, the Bible does teach that man has free will (in the Lord's timing) to accept the Lord.

Free Will in the Bible:

#1. Joshua 24:15 KJV -
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve"

#2. Matthew 11:28 KJV -
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

#3. John 7:17 KJV -
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God."

#4. John 7:37 KJV -
"If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

#5. Acts 2:38 KJV -
"Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized"

#6. Acts 3:19 KJV -
"Repent therefore and be converted"

#7. Acts 16:31 KJV -
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

#8. Acts 17:30 KJV -
"but now commands all men everywhere to repent"

#9. Revelation 22:17 KJV -
"Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely."

#10. Genesis 4:7 KJV -
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

#11. Revelation 22:17 KJ2
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

#12. Luke 13:34 NLT -
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am neither a Calvinist nor a non-Calvinist, but there are some pretty clear predestination verses in the Bible that require some fancy tap-dancing to explain away.

The standard tap-dancing is to say that these verses are talking about corporate predestination. God predestinated (and foreknew) that the body of people who came to Christ would be saved.

It seems to me that this reduces verses like the above to tautologies: "As many of those who had been ordained to believe, believed." That's not illegitimate, but it doesn't strike me as convincing. The "pots questioning the potter" verses are also highly problematical for non-Calvinists.

The potter analogy is not teaching Calvinism.

Check out this article here:

Understanding the Potter and the Clay in Romans 9
(Note: I am merely in agreement with this article in what they say; This does not mean I may agree with their other teachings or beliefs).

 

[-57]

I believe Prevenient Grace is the best way to harmonize what Scripture says as a whole on this topic. Prevenient Grace is the belief that God draws men at certain times to see and understand the gospel so as to choose it or reject it of their own free will. Without this illumination or drawing by God, a person cannot understand the gospel. For in the Parable in the Sower, we learn that the first seed did not even understand the gospel message. The devil stole the seed out of their heart before they could understand it (Matthew 13:18-19). So there are times where a person can hear the gospel and not understand it because they have not been drawn by God yet. Yet at other times, God will open the hearts of people to hear the truth. In one instance, God opened the heart of Lydia to hear the gospel (Acts of the Apostles 16:14). But God will draw all men unto Him in His timing.

This is not at the expense of free will of man, but it is in harmony with it. God chooses a time (or select times) for mankind to understand the gospel (under His illumination) to either accept it or reject it, and then it is up to him (or her) to accept it or not.

But make no mistake, the Bible does teach that man has free will (in the Lord's timing) to accept the Lord.

Free Will in the Bible:

#1. Joshua 24:15 KJV -
"Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve"

#2. Matthew 11:28 KJV -
"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

#3. John 7:17 KJV -
"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God."

#4. John 7:37 KJV -
"If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink."

#5. Acts 2:38 KJV -
"Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized"

#6. Acts 3:19 KJV -
"Repent therefore and be converted"

#7. Acts 16:31 KJV -
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

#8. Acts 17:30 KJV -
"but now commands all men everywhere to repent"

#9. Revelation 22:17 KJV -
"Whoever wills, let him take the water of life freely."

#10. Genesis 4:7 KJV -
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

#11. Revelation 22:17 KJ2
"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

#12. Luke 13:34 NLT -
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me.

You didn't answer the question....What is that decision based upon? Under your particular theology why do some say yes and some say no?

All you did was present something on Prevenient Grace.

 

[hedrick]

The Bible certainly teaches a kind of predestination. In this passage the word destined is "to assign someone to a particular task, function, or role—‘to appoint, to designate, to assign, to give a task to.’" (Louw and Nida)

The difficulty when talking about Calvinism is that it's not stated why there were destined for eternal life. It could be because of what they had done or would do.

There's no question that the Bible talks about God choosing specific people for things, and choosing groups (e.g. Israel or the Church) for specific things. But it doesn't normally talk about the relationship between his choice and their choices. There are case where God's choice is in spite of theirs, such as the call of Paul, but this passage isn't such an exception. Nor does God ever choose someone for destruction, though he may hasten it if they've already chosen to oppose him.

 

[-57]

The Bible certainly teaches a kind of predestination. In this passage the word destined is "to assign someone to a particular task, function, or role—‘to appoint, to designate, to assign, to give a task to.’" (Louw and Nida)

The difficulty when talking about Calvinism is that it's not stated why there were destined for eternal life. It could be because of what they had done or would do.

There's no question that the Bible talks about God choosing specific people for things, and choosing groups (e.g. Israel or the Church) for specific things. But it doesn't normally talk about the relationship between his choice and their choices. There are case where God's choice is in spite of theirs, such as the call of Paul, but this passage isn't such an exception. Nor does God ever choose someone for destruction, though he may hasten it if they've already chosen to oppose him.

I don't know if I agree with this portion of what you said...It could be because of what they had done or would do.

I base that on the following scripture...

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

and....

Romans 9: 11 Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12 not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.........16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

 

[hedrick]

I don't know if I agree with this portion of what you said...It could be because of what they had done or would do.

This thread is specifically about Acts 13:48. I was commenting on that passage. You raise a different question, of how predestination it treated elsewhere.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

This is why I said that the Bible teaches a kind of predestination. It's certainly teaches a grace that we didn't do anything to deserve. But strict Calvinism requires more than what this passage teaches. It requires limiting that grace to specific people, and saying that our response is wholly determined by God. That's reading more into the passage than is there.

Romans 9: 11 Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12 not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.........16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

The quotation "the older will serve..." is from Gen 25:23:

“Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples born of you shall be divided;
the one shall be stronger than the other,
the elder shall serve the younger.”

From both the passage itself and the context in Romans this is about the choice of Israel. But this is only part of a whole argument. Remember that God's long-term plan, as we see later, was to save everyone, not just Israel.

 

[-57]

This thread is specifically about Acts 13:48. I was commenting on that passage. You raise a different question, of how predestination it treated elsewhere.



This is why I said that the Bible teaches a kind of predestination. It's certainly teaches a grace that we didn't do anything to deserve. But strict Calvinism requires more than what this passage teaches. It requires limiting that grace to specific people, and saying that our response is wholly determined by God. That's reading more into the passage than is there.


The quotation "the older will serve..." is from Gen 25:23:

“Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples born of you shall be divided;
the one shall be stronger than the other,
the elder shall serve the younger.”

From both the passage itself and the context in Romans this is about the choice of Israel. But this is only part of a whole argument. Remember that God's long-term plan, as we see later, was to save everyone, not just Israel.

I was referring to this portion of the post..The difficulty when talking about Calvinism is that it's not stated why there were destined for eternal life. It could be because of what they had done or would do.
I also think Paul is expanding on the concept and bringing it to a personal level....16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

 

[AvisG]

The potter analogy is not teaching Calvinism.

Check out this article here:

Understanding the Potter and the Clay in Romans 9
(Note: I am merely in agreement with this article in what they say; This does not mean I may agree with their other teachings or beliefs).

The author seems to have a number of unconventional beliefs (good for him!). As he notes in the very first line, however, his understanding of Romans 9 is not that of "Western theology."

"He has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills ... Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? ... What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction."

I don't insist on any particular interpretation, but the above does sound rather Calvinistic. Obviously, if one is not a Calvinist, one must provide an alternative explanation.

 

[hedrick]

I was referring to this portion of the post..The difficulty when talking about Calvinism is that it's not stated why there were destined for eternal life. It could be because of what they had done or would do.
I also think Paul is expanding on the concept and bringing it to a personal level....16 So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

What you quote was about a different passage, and about Calvinism in general. On Rom 9:17, I have no doubt that Paul thought the Exodus was entirely God's initiative. This included the intransigence of Pharaoh.