What doctrines do we hold in common?

[Cribstyl]

The devil would lose if we would find some common ground and began to proclaim the promisses of God that we agree on.

 

[k4c]

The devil would lose if we would find some common ground and began to proclaim the promisses of God that we agree on.

Believe in Jesus and begin your journey.

 

[Cribstyl]

Aparently none......

 

[k4c]

Aparently none......

Since I don't know what you believe how can I say we believe the same on anything. Besides, what difference does it make.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Coming to a common ground understanding is ecumenicalism and causes satan to win, not lose. Remember Jesus came not to unite but to divide....

 

[VictorC]

Coming to a common ground understanding is ecumenicalism and causes satan to win, not lose. Remember Jesus came not to unite but to divide....

If you're gleaning this from Matthew 10:34-37, I would suggest that a review of that text is in order. Coming to the common faith we were entrusted with in unity has been the goal of those conveying the Gospel since its inception.

Jude 1
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Ephesians 4
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended" ----what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head----Christ----
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.​

Jesus acknowledged that divisions in any body would not last, and I would not agree with your contention that Jesus has a goal of dividing His own Body invested into us.

Matthew 12:25
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.​

 

[Cribstyl]

Seventh-day Adventist theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SDA appear to share many doctrines that are common with evangelical protestant churches.

"Common ground" simply means similar doctrines dirived from the bible.

Questions concerning the disctinct doctrines of Adventism are the cause of great division between our churches.

When did SDA establish "the trinity" as a doctrine of their church?
When did SDA establish "salvation by faith" as a doctrine of their church?

 

[Cribstyl]

If you're gleaning this from Matthew 10:34-37, I would suggest that a review of that text is in order. Coming to the common faith we were entrusted with in unity has been the goal of those conveying the Gospel since its inception.

Jude 1
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
​

Ephesians 4
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended" ----what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head----Christ----
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
​

Jesus acknowledged that divisions in any body would not last, and I would not agree with your contention that Jesus has a goal of dividing His own Body invested into us.

Matthew 12:25
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.
​

Cant deny the word of God VictorC.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Believing that Jesus is the Son of God and died for us and other such truths do not mean all Christians are unified. Even Satan and his angels beleive these things and I would not consider myself unified with them. It is through our obedience to His Word that make us partakers of the covenent and that is where, we as followers of Christ, are not unified. Obedience is our part in the contract that Christ sealed through His blood that day on Calvary.

Even on this point, I'm sure we'll disagree as, I assume, you believe we are saved through Grace alone and not through obedience. Eitheryou are correct or I am correct... and this one point is a salvational issue. There can be no unification among us if fundamental beliefs are not shared.

 

[Cribstyl]

Believing that Jesus is the Son of God and died for us and other such truths do not mean all Christians are unified. Even Satan and his angels beleive these things and I would not consider myself unified with them.

I cant argue with that. But, not everybody understand what it means that Jesus died for us...

It is through our obedience to His Word that make us partakers of the covenent and that is where, we as followers of Christ, are not unified. Obedience is our part in the contract that Christ sealed through His blood that day on Calvary.

By obedience to His word you most likely mean "keeping the sabbath and the ten commandments,"which is actually the Old Covenant and the sign of the covenant.
If you meant "obedience to the gospel" which is commissioned by Christ and taught primarily by Peter, John and Paul then I'd agree with you.

I'm sure you have an explanation why Jesus would come to and give the same message that Moses gave to the Children of Israel, to the world, without addressing it repeatedly in scriptures for people to understand what they need to keep.
I'm sure you have an explanation why we should not follow what is actually written for our understanding.

Even on this point, I'm sure we'll disagree as, I assume, you believe we are saved through Grace alone and not through obedience. Either you are correct or I am correct... and this one point is a salvational issue. There can be no unification among us if fundamental beliefs are not shared.

Scriptures answers that point easily, so I cant wait to hear your commentary or texts.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Here in Eph 2 Paul is explaining; "We're saved by God's grace through recieving it through our faith. Grace is a gift from God alone, we did nothing to get it or we would have something to brag about."

Romans chapter 5 explains the grace card.
Rom 5:1¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom5:1,2. It's by faith we have access to stand in grace, because those without faith are not justified to stand in grace.

I wont overwhelm you with related context of Roman 5 that argues specifically that justifiction is by faith without the law.

Fact is, it can be proven without additional commentary that Paul taught to several chuches, righteousness by faith without the law.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I've never said that we aren't saved by faith/grace. I don't know why you keep trying to pin that on me... I contend that we are justified by faith/grace but produce the fruit of that gift through our works which we are commanded to do. and I consider the ten commandments to be part of that which is commanded... I don't know why that bothers you so?

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

James 2:10-26
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? saved by faith alone?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Cribstyl]

I've never said that we aren't saved by faith/grace. I don't know why you keep trying to pin that on me...

Pin what? I Did not say you said anything....... if anything you've challenged me to prove who is correct on this subject. I'm trying to articulate my arguments.
My methods are always to post what the scriptures teach, then make comments that applies the scriptures to understanding.

I contend that we are justified by faith/grace but produce the fruit of that gift through our works which we are commanded to do. and I consider the ten commandments to be part of that which is commanded... I don't know why that bothers you so?

You're saying that we're "justified" (saved) by faith and works of the law. (I'm not bothered at all.)
I cant wait to see your pushback against my arguments, because I intend to challenge yours.
(I hope you or noone comes along saying I'm attacking SDA doctrines or other members.)
Remember, you're the one that just raised this topic by saying.....

Even on this point, I'm sure we'll disagree as, I assume, you believe we are saved through Grace alone
and not through obedience.
Either you are correct or I am correct...
and this one point is a salvational issue.
There can be no unification among us if fundamental beliefs are not shared.

You made it my task to defend arguments for "Salvation by Grace/faith alone" vs your possition; "Salvation by Grace/faith and works of the law."

In round one, You did not refute the text but somehow you've conscrewed my comments as an assault.

Round two.

You went on to make your case by argument (highlighted in black in above underlined statement and posting text (thank you) also by highlighting certain words and statements.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

James 2:10-26
10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? saved by faith alone?

In my next post I will make comment on your texts

Respectfully
CRIB

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think that what we are trying to hammer out here is the truth on whether or not we are 'once saved, always saved' or are able to lose our salvation... please correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe I shouldn't assume you are in the 'once saved' camp but that is what I'm discerning...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Crib . . . . Thanks for looking to find common ground. Since we are called to unity, not division, I believe this is a worthwhile endeavor.

To help you with your thread, I'll share one area of commonality. I believe that the Holy Spirit brings forth fruit in the lives of justified persons. I understand that the SDA denomination teaches this too.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Now, after sharing one area of common ground, I have a question based on the discussion in this thread thus far.

If I am alive immediately prior to Christ's second coming and if I am not setting aside the seventh day as a special day of rest and worship, will I have:

1. The seal of God?

-OR-

2. The mark of the beast?
​

I submit that one's position on once-saved-always-saved has no bearing on the question I've set out above. I welcome feedback from as many posters in this forum who are willing to answer. Thanks in advance for your replies.

BFA

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

At the time of probation ended through th Sunday law then no the issue of obedience to the decision of the hour will be paramount. Possibly with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at that time ALL truths will be made known to God's people so that there can be no doubt as to their decision.

However, at this time assuming a person dies before probation ends, and they have the once saved philosophy, then wouldn't they be lost because of possible unrepented sins?

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib . . . . Thanks for looking to find common ground. Since we are called to unity, not division, I believe this is a worthwhile endeavor.

To help you with your thread, I'll share one area of commonality. I believe that the Holy Spirit brings forth fruit in the lives of justified persons. I understand that the SDA denomination teaches this too.

BFA

Common ground can be a good thing.





Doctrine of faith towards God, Who is God? Who is Jesus? Who is the Holy Spirit? What is faith,What is salvation? What is grace?
what is death? where is heaven? What is righteousness, what is the bible, what is sin, what is hope, What are angels,
who is the devil, what is church, what is worship, what is prayer, healing, forgiveness, righteousness, the covenants and many other subject we may or may not agree on.

 

[Cribstyl]

If I am alive immediately prior to Christ's second coming and if I am not setting aside the seventh day as a special day of rest and worship, will I have:

1. The seal of God?

-OR-

2. The mark of the beast?
​

BFA
​

I'll take The seal of God for 200 Bob.
My understanding is that, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the seal unto that day of redemption.
Eph 4:30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

How and when do we get that seal?


Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.




I consider the imagery of Revelation as spiritual and not to be taken as literal for any generation to second guess when and how God will act. Where does the bible say that the sabbath is the seal of God?
Application of the gospel prepares us with faith in God to do exactly what He promised.
The seal of God we'll have to answer to, is the blood of the New Covenant. If we love God and our neighbor as ourselves we can live in freedom from fear and even from condemnation from the law.

We count it the greatest honor to live and die for the Kingdom of God.
If we're adopted as children of God, why should we live in fear?
If we're baptized in the Holy Spirit, we eat God's word as truth to live by, and we actually see and understand more clearly as God work through us in ministry. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is power to proclaim the gospel more effectually.
Revelation imagery causes people fear of recieving "the mark of the beast". So they're give in to fear and not the blood of Jesus.
That's not the gospel we should preach or live by.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

At the time of probation ended through th Sunday law then no the issue of obedience to the decision of the hour will be paramount. Possibly with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at that time ALL truths will be made known to God's people so that there can be no doubt as to their decision.

However, at this time assuming a person dies before probation ends, and they have the once saved philosophy, then wouldn't they be lost because of possible unrepented sins?

I'm sure you meant to answer my question and just got lost in a train of thought. No problem. That happens to me from time to time. Here again is my question. It relates solely to the time period you might call "after probation closes." Thoughts?

If I am alive immediately prior to Christ's second coming and if I am not setting aside the seventh day as a special day of rest and worship, will I have:

1. The seal of God?

-OR-

2. The mark of the beast?
​

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

We agree on THE BIBLE being the infallible revelation of His will....


I dont agree with the Once saved always saved doctrine.