Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The early creeds are so vague though. Born of the virgin for example. Okay, we all agree she was a virgin prior to conception and gave birth. After? Folks disagree. There's only one group (RC), however, that made it an essential doctrine to their salvation. So, really don't think the creeds did anything more than separate brothers.
But that's the question. What makes us brothers? What is essential?
Born again? Okay. By water or Spirit or what?
Love? Okay, lots of religions try that.
Saved by grace through faith. Does any other religion teach "no works" to get and stay "saved" besides Christianity?
That's what I also feel so I simply said dogmas, meaning, dogmas of your Church.At bottom, I can't decide what I think about this thread.I'm inclined to go with you and others who think the essentials are really quite few, mainly dealing with salvation; but it's so hard to decide what might be added to that (short) list beyond this one biggie. So I'm feeling kinda stumped, to tell the truth.
That's what I also feel so I simply said dogmas, meaning, dogmas of your Church.
The Creeds give a lot of leeway for interfaith discussion. Our Dogmas ,however are what we really believe in finer detail. What we must agree upon is one thing. What I must believe to be in communion is another.
That's what I also feel so I simply said dogmas, meaning, dogmas of your Church.
The Creeds give a lot of leeway for interfaith discussion. Our Dogmas ,however are what we really believe in finer detail. What we must agree upon is one thing. What I must believe to be in communion is another.
To be saved or to be in Communion?
I don't agree with "concession". Submission to truth is my view. For me, it's not about "my" Church. It's about Christ's Church. I don't think I'm so much different than most believers who believe they are in the Church. I don't think (except for purposes of writing at a forum) in terms of your Church or my Church. I just see what's been shown to me as the Church through the holy Spirit. Or: Where I found the Church.That sounds to me like a concession to your church, i.e., if the church has made X into dogma, you'll be obedient. But ARE all those dogmas necessary...if we were to step out of our position as loyal communicants and members and answer the question candidly? Do you, for instance, really think any of the Marian doctrines are essential? And why would they be?
I don't agree with "concession". Submission to truth is my view.
For me, it's not about "my" Church. It's about Christ's Church. I don't think I'm so much different than most believers who believe they are in the Church. I don't think (except for purposes of writing at a forum) in terms of your Church or my Church. I just see what's been shown to me as the Church through the holy Spirit. Or: Where I found the Church.
I was a Baptist before I found where I was meant to be. I did not find the Church there. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. It means simply that I did not find it there.
No, I'm not suggesting that one needs to make concessions. If something goes against your conscience, one should not submit to it or even be a part of it. Now if a conscience feels fine with the Dispensational evangelical views, by all means one could submit.
On Marian doctrine, if looking at it from outside my communion, I do not know. My hope for others is that it doesn't matter. I hope that those things we be ignorant about will not be held against us. I'm not really sure if being taught wrong will be held against the hearer or the teacher appointed of God to teach the truth.
My advice is simple. I'll quote my departed Grandmother: "If you're gonna be a Baptist, be a good Baptist. If you're gonna be a Catholic, be a good Catholic. God looks into the heart."
It's not a club. One either faces God in or out of communion with Christ's Church. One faces God being rebellious or agreeing.We all know that there are membership requirements if one wants to belong to any denomination, and we don't consider all of them to be theologically essential. So no, that's not part of the issue.
OK. I wasn't trying to make anything special out of that choice of wording.
Then, shall we put you down as unwilling to contemplate the idea that some beliefs that your church has dogmatized may not be essential doctrines, quite apart from the question of whether or not they are true?
I don't think it is, at bottom, a cultural difference. I also notice that you've seemingly moved from affirming, as a matter of course, whatever your church teaches dogmatically to a personal assessment in which you come across as simply unsure of how to know what's essential and what's not. If so, that's an answer I can appreciate.I'm really not trying to be difficult. It's a cultural difference.
I know you're saying essential to salvation.
I believe our infants receive it so that should answer that question. No I do not think understanding is essential to salvation. I think it's important for living on earth, worship, teaching and peace of mind.
Before I'll agree on the one great essential I'd need to know why different answers were given in scripture when different people asked: "What must I do to be saved, inherit eternal life, to enter into the kingdom and so on.
One is told that he must be born again. One is told he must believe and be baptized. Another is told he must believe upon the Lord jesus Christ. Yet another is told to sell all he owns and follow Christ.
So I'm not sure if there is one great essential aside from love. Salvation is the lord's to give as He sees fit. Our lists do not hinder Him.
A better question is what must I do. Not we.
I would say two doctrines that are non negotiable to me have to do with the sacraments.
1. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist: Christ said "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you". I take this to be literal.
2. The other is baptism. I believe that this sacrament imparts salvation. It is not simply a symbol.
I believe the Dogmas to be essential. Now essential for what? Salvation? For whom? For agreement in Communion? Yes. For unity.I don't think it is, at bottom, a cultural difference. I also notice that you've seemingly moved from affirming, as a matter of course, whatever your church teaches dogmatically to a personal assessment in which you come across as simply unsure of how to know what's essential and what's not. If so, that's an answer I can appreciate.
To be saved or to be in Communion?
We all know that there are membership requirements if one wants to belong to any denomination, and we don't consider all of them to be theologically essential. So no, that's not part of the issue.
I don't agree with "concession". Submission to truth is my view. For me, it's not about "my" Church. It's about Christ's Church.-snip-
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?