What do you think?

[free2be]

Sure, come on over to the crisis pregnancy center I work at

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Sure, come on over to the crisis pregnancy center I work at

could you, maybe, tell me your source here, so i don't have to cross the Pacific?

 

[free2be]

Not unless you want me to guess, as I'm at home at the moment. Though, I'm sure, if you wanted to, you could find it by research.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Not unless you want me to guess, as I'm at home at the moment. Though, I'm sure, if you wanted to, you could find it by research.

I've looked, seriously. As far as I can tell, its an extremely rare procedure, usually only carried out in extremely unusual circumstances

 

[jad123]

how often is this the case?

what is the guarantee the father will take full responsibility for the child after it is born?

would the father be prepared to have an unwanted organism live in his body for 9 months for the purposes of the mother?

How often it happens is completely irrelevant. If it happens once the father should be able to keep HIS child. As for you last line again that is completely irrelevant since it is impossible to do. So I can yes and what does that solve, nothing.

 

[jad123]

I've looked, seriously. As far as I can tell, its an extremely rare procedure, usually only carried out in extremely unusual circumstances

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/329/7467/644-d

According to this article (written 2004) of the 1.3 million abortions done each year in the United States an estimated 2200 to 5000 are partial birth abortions. This number equates to between 183 - 416 partial birth abortions per month or between 6 - 14 per day.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

How often it happens is completely irrelevant. If it happens once the father should be able to keep HIS child

A man has no right to force a woman to go through a pregnancy that she doesn't want. It's her body that is affected by the pregnancy and it's the woman who has to go through all the work and risks of delivery. It's her decision, not his.

According to this article (written 2004) of the 1.3 million abortions done each year in the United States an estimated 2200 to 5000 are partial birth abortions. This number equates to between 183 - 416 partial birth abortions per month or between 6 - 14 per day.

Actually, those numbers are quite low.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

How often it happens is completely irrelevant. If it happens once the father should be able to keep HIS child. As for you last line again that is completely irrelevant since it is impossible to do. So I can yes and what does that solve, nothing.

So you are happy to force a woman to have an unwanted organism living in her body for 9 months? Thats quite a claim you are making on someone else's body.

 

[Calliso]

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/329/7467/644-d

According to this article (written 2004) of the 1.3 million abortions done each year in the United States an estimated 2200 to 5000 are partial birth abortions. This number equates to between 183 - 416 partial birth abortions per month or between 6 - 14 per day.

That is really not a lot and if I am correct the majority of those are done for very severe reasons. Like extreme birth defects and risk of life to mother. And I find it funny how prolifers will jump on prochoicers for bringing up things like abortion in case of rape. Pointing out that such cases are rare. But then in several of these arguments it seems they turn right around start yammering about partial birth abortions..another thing that happens rarely....

 

[EnemyPartyII]

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/329/7467/644-d

According to this article (written 2004) of the 1.3 million abortions done each year in the United States an estimated 2200 to 5000 are partial birth abortions. This number equates to between 183 - 416 partial birth abortions per month or between 6 - 14 per day.

Interesting article.

I notice that it says that these almost all occur in the second trimester

 

[Calliso]

Well excuse me! Let me rephrase; if a man never wants to get a woman pregnant he has the right to have a vasectomy. And yes a tubal is invasive but MANY women have had them done and so will I'm sure many more. So if they choose to have one to prevent CONCEIVING they have that right. And yes I know the law disagrees with me that is why I said she SHOULD not have the right, not DOES not.



Thank you for at least considering the man's opinion. Most don't give a hoot if the man truly desires to be a father to his child or not. Just cause some guys bail and are scum buckets doesn't mean all are. But I will disagree that the final say belongs to the woman. I think it should belong to whoever is in favor of continuing the child's life.

Aye but how can you be sure the person doesnlt have alterior motives for wanting the child born? How can you be sure the reasons are that they want the child? People are devious and I bet many would use a law like this in very bad ways.

 

[Calliso]

so do violent crimes, I guess we need to educate the criminal population on how to achieve nonviolent means of performing their crimes.

Well, parenthood and pregnancy are not a punishment at all. They are things someone goes through when then decide to own up to what they've done. You are christian, correct? How do you think God feels about it?
Is sex really that important???


Natural process perhaps? If you don't believe that God has His hand in the birth of a child, then you are mistaken.

I believe it is out of our hands at conception, when all the child needs to survive is the sustaining environment that its growing in. After that its just a matter of time.

If God really is so against abortions and feels all pregnancies are blessings then why do so many embyros abort natrually? most likely before the woman would have had any clue she had even had an egg fertilized? Why not make our bodies trully safe for babies instead of the uncertain risky place it is now? And if God has his hand in the birth of a child what again of the ones that are natrually aborted? Were those just a mistake of Gods? does he just go oppsie I didn;t mean for that to happen bye bye baby?

 

[Calliso]

A man has no right to force a woman to go through a pregnancy that she doesn't want. It's her body that is affected by the pregnancy and it's the woman who has to go through all the work and risks of delivery. It's her decision, not his.


.

Exactly when men can get pregnant and actually have to deal with some of the crappier parts of sex *like unwanted pregnancy* Then they can get a final say. Until then their opinions should certainly be listened to and weighed but what they want shouldn;t be the final say if it isn;t what the woman wants.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Exactly when men can get pregnant and actually have to deal with some of the crappier parts of sex *like unwanted pregnancy* Then they can get a final say. Until then their opinions should certainly be listened to and weighed but what they want shouldn;t be the final say if it isn;t what the woman wants.

Pretty much where I fall on the discussion.

If a man really REALLY wants the child and the woman really REALLY doiesn't, I think they need to have some very serious, indepth discussions.

 

[Trashionista]

So the law is wrong. There are many man made laws that go against God.

And thankfully.

As I'm not in a theocracy. Unless I were living on some weird Catholic island, I'm not going to suggest the government only represent one point of view.

The religious can choose not to get abortions. Those that want to - can. Safely.

Very simple.

 

[Trashionista]

I agree with that. Here in Canada (and I think in some States), I live under the law of allowing the abortions at any time throughout the pregnancy. That means, partial birth abortions are legal...the baby is delivered breech up to the neck and is terminated before it's fully born and able to take it's first breath. Wrong. Very, very, very wrong. A case of removing the line because of arguments of where to draw it.

And you believe its wrong.

The rest of Canada may not.

You don't have to get it done then.

 

[Trashionista]

Sick, very sick.

How is it sick?

You can't give birth. A woman can. She can choose not to.

The only "sick" thing here, is a man believing he has right and dominion over a woman's body by telling her what she can and cannot do with it.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

To some people? Yes. If you aren't having it, or have never had it, I don't think its a good idea for you to comment for all those for whom it IS that important.

So you think God would rather you gratify your carnal desire than protect and take care of the life He has allowed in care?

So when God allows an natural abortion to happen thats OK, but he is incapable of stopping an artificial one from happening against his will?

I never said God was incapable of anything. Please don't put words in my mouth. God lets bad things happen all the time, and He lets people make bad choices as well. I don't need to talk to another christian about that though, do I?

Once again, I'm having trouble relating your response to what I actually asked.For 85% of them, no, thats not the case, including all the fertilised eggs that don't make it to the implantation stage because of cuycles and existing pregnancy... how are they any different/

The body's natural process of abortion is ALOT different than allowing someone to blenderize an unborn child and suck it out with a tube. First off, one is done naturally, and the other is done by the mother, most often times for convenience.

But I digress... the jey point here is the "sustaining environment that its growing in"... when that environment is part of someone else's body... the owner of that body gets more of a say than anyone who's body the foetus ISN'T living in

What about the child growing in it? It didn't ask to be there, did it? It gets no say at all, but that doesn't matter to anyone does it?

I can envision a waiting room where conception happens, and the fetus signing a waiver that says 'you give up all your rights to life if you just so happen in any way to conflict with your mother's schedule, so no refunds/returns/exchanges'

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

So you are happy to force a woman to have an unwanted organism living in her body for 9 months? Thats quite a claim you are making on someone else's body.

Unwanted organism? Woops, I made you, but you are unwanted. Oh and on top of that, we will refer to the child as an organism just to even moreso lessen its importance. Do you hear what you are saying? You are making unborn children sound like tapeworms.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

If God really is so against abortions and feels all pregnancies are blessings then why do so many embyros abort natrually?

Are you christian? Your icon doesn't specify. Either way, I'm not inclined to argue about God and His motives unless we are on the same page to begin with..

Why not make our bodies trully safe for babies instead of the uncertain risky place it is now? And if God has his hand in the birth of a child what again of the ones that are natrually aborted? Were those just a mistake of Gods? does he just go oppsie I didn;t mean for that to happen bye bye baby?

See above. And God doesn't make mistakes, it is us who make the mistake of thinking He does. By the way, the last comment you made comes across as belittling towards God, in case you didn't notice.