What do you think?

[Easystreet]

"In 1541 the reforming forces again gained control in Geneva and Calvin was invited back there. That same year he had the Ecclesiastical Ordinances promulgated. This outlined the activities of the four classes of office bearers in the Church. It provided for an association of pastors to administer discipline, a group of teachers to teach doctrine, a group of deacons to administer the work of charity and, most important of all, the consistory, composed of six ministers and twelve elders, to supervise the theology and morals of the community and to punish when necessary the wayward members of the Church by excommunication. In order to set up an effective system Calvin used the state to inflect more severe penalties. (bold red emphasis mine)


Such penalties proved to be much too sever ,fifty-eight being executed and seventy six exiled by 1546."​

Source

"Christianity Through The Centuries" by Cairns and Published by Zondervan, Copy right 54, and 57
page 342

If He lived today would he be tried for Murder?

 

[MrJim]

That's an interesting question---what do the folks at Semper Reformada say

It's interesting that the calvinist baptists would fall under condemnation from Calvin because baptists are anabaptists (practice believer's baptism and don't practice paedobaptism)...

 

[Easystreet]

I found it interesting too.

 

[ACADEMIC]

Yes, interesting, but not at all surprising.

I think we usually should try to choose stances of mercy toward historical persons and be slow to condemn them from the stances of our circumstances and period of time.

90% of us would probably do exactly what Calvin did were we a child of his same circumstances and time.

 

[christian73]

"In 1541 the reforming forces again gained control in Geneva and Calvin was invited back there. That same year he had the Ecclesiastical Ordinances promulgated. This outlined the activities of the four classes of office bearers in the Church. It provided for an association of pastors to administer discipline, a group of teachers to teach doctrine, a group of deacons to administer the work of charity and, most important of all, the consistory, composed of six ministers and twelve elders, to supervise the theology and morals of the community and to punish when necessary the wayward members of the Church by excommunication. In order to set up an effective system Calvin used the state to inflect more severe penalties. (bold red emphasis mine)


Such penalties proved to be much too sever ,fifty-eight being executed and seventy six exiled by 1546."​

Source

"Christianity Through The Centuries" by Cairns and Published by Zondervan, Copy right 54, and 57
page 342

If He lived today would he be tried for Murder?

Very interesting.

 

[Danfrey]

I would agree that toward the man we should show mercy, but toward the sin we should stand on the side of truth. Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Any actions that contradict that teaching are sin. One could argue that if we were in Germany at the time of Hitler we would have probably been Nazis, but that doesn't make the actions any less appauling.

 

[JimfromOhio]

There are anabapists are who are calvinists. (I was a baptist most of my young life, then 20 years as an anabaptist which taught me more about calvnism.)

Anyway, the OP's post is about the government that John Calvin have influenced to established. Calvin was originally a lawyer before becoming a theologian. His major fault (in my opinion) that was getting involved the organization of church governance and the social organization of the church and the city in Geneva (civil government). He was, in fact, the first major political thinker to model social organization entirely on biblical principles. In 1540, city officials in Geneva invited Calvin back to the city and he set about revolutionizing Genevan society. His most important innovation was the incorporation of the church into city government; he immediately helped to restructure municipal government so that clergy would be involved in municipal decisions, particularly in disciplining the populace. He imposed a hierarchy on the Genevan church and began a series of statute reforms to impose a strict and uncompromising moral code on the city. What kind of government was it? THEOCRACY Civil government is recognized by the sovereignty of God-ordained institution. Government is necessary and divinely ordained by God (Rom. 13:1–7). We are called to render service and obedience as to submit to civil authority (1 Pet. 2:13–17 ; Matt. 22:21).

THEOCRACY ( Gr. theokratia, "government by a god"), constitution, or polity, of a country in which God is regarded as the sole sovereign and the laws of the realm are seen as divine commands. By extension a theocracy is a country in which control is in the hands of the clergy. The typical example of a theocracy is that established by the Hebrew lawgiver Moses which also used by theologian John Calvin in Geneva. How many countries today have "Theocracy" type of Government? Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are allied. Currently, in the Middle East Muslim Countries such as Iran.

Can anyone list of governments in the past and present that have Theocracy format?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If He lived today would he be tried for Murder?

Are the ones who murder today more than anyone else tried? Even charged?

no, they're protected by law.....

".......the truth will be called a lie, and the lie will be called the truth." BIBLE

 

[nzguy]

I think he definetely would be tried for murder if that same thing was happening these days, given what the Catholic church has done for past recent years in apologising for previous atrocities to people, and also the Southern Baptists apologised for racial discrimination against blacks..

so due to the transparency of most organisations and churches now.. there is alot of things that if they did would end up having severe penalties.

I don't have a great opinion of Calvinism full-stop.. because Jesus' sacrifice for us in this teaching is not full atonement-- but partial.. and only effectual for a pre-determined 'elected' group. Free will is pretty much taken out of the picture, and I know from experience followers of Calvinism are often very judgmental and antagonistic toward other Christians.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"In 1541 the reforming forces again gained control in Geneva and Calvin was invited back there. That same year he had the Ecclesiastical Ordinances promulgated. This outlined the activities of the four classes of office bearers in the Church. It provided for an association of pastors to administer discipline, a group of teachers to teach doctrine, a group of deacons to administer the work of charity and, most important of all, the consistory, composed of six ministers and twelve elders, to supervise the theology and morals of the community and to punish when necessary the wayward members of the Church by excommunication. In order to set up an effective system Calvin used the state to inflect more severe penalties. (bold red emphasis mine)


Such penalties proved to be much too sever ,fifty-eight being executed and seventy six exiled by 1546."​

Source

"Christianity Through The Centuries" by Cairns and Published by Zondervan, Copy right 54, and 57
page 342

If He lived today would he be tried for Murder?

was herod tried for murdering all the babies in bethlehem ?

is ANYone tried, even brought to trial, for what they do in clinics around the you ess aye ?

More children die today from totally curable blud cncr (sic for legal reasons) than ever before, but their parents are NEVER told. Is anyone in power EVER brought to trial for that?

the p of the you ess aye sent thousands to their death; anything happen ?

manufacturers all over, and cities and states and countries, are posining (sic ibid) the voerall population..... anyone catching on ?

 

[SolidFaith247]

hmm...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a lot of people may do or not do as clvn did,
those who obey Yahweh, who do what the Bible simple says, won't act like him at all.
those who obey Yahweh, knowing in their conscience listening to Him right from wrong, won't act like him at all.
a lot of people don't obey Yahweh, don't obey the Bible, and don't listen to their conscience given them by Yahweh to listen to (their conscience is seared beyond knowing right from wrong after ignoring it for so long).
so, a lot of people will say this or that, yea or ney, without ever knowing nor being able to come to the knowledge of the truth... (they have a lot of company, a lot more company and approval by man than those who know and seek and follow the truth)...