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Then why do you argue with people if you are only interested in hearing their view?
It seems you are not being sincere.
But you have already determined in your mind what is "true" regarding the subject matter. You aren't here merely to ask questions, but to lure people into debate in hopes to argue your way into their hearts and make them see things the way you and the SDA church interpret them. Your intentions are obvious. Your argumentative approach betrays you.on the contrary - everyone can give their speculation/proposal. I am free to ask a few questions about it so that all the options provided at least have some sort of serious nature to them... as opposed to looking for a fairy tale name for example -- just trying to get to some set of good solid proposals for people to consider.
But you have already determined in your mind what is "true" regarding the subject matter.
So then your proposel is that John wanted his readers to use English?? Seriously?
It's all speculation at this time. Even your own view should be regarded as speculative until proven true. You have no proof that worshiping God on Sunday is or will be the mark of the beast. The writings of Ellen White and those who put their trust in her words tell you that. Not the Bible.Certainly I don't claim to have no information at all... But this is a thread for those who participate to "give it a shot" tell us what they view as the solution.
No, I meant not to focus on just one thing that could be the mark because you might be wrongIt looks like you have just argued against saying what it is because then you will oppose what it is.
Does God warn us of a future event so that we will be forewarned only to hide the event from us?
In Noah's day it was specific.
In John the baptizer's day it was a specific warning.
In Matthew 23 Christ gives the Jews a specific warning.
A focus on the warnings that we are given by Christ is not what I would call a distraction.
The problem with that is that it is very unlikely that some future scenario will arise that is of the form "here is the mark of the beast - we would like you to accept this in your forehead or your hand... forget why we are doing it -- we just need you to accept it".
Rev 13 gives us a "clue" as to its identity precisely because it will not come with "mark of beast goes here" documentation and diagrams.
you appear to have said that we should not try to figure out what the mark is - because in so doing we might miss what it really is.
Did I misunderstand your point?
No, I meant not to focus on just one thing that could be the mark because you might be wrong
It's all speculation at this time. Even your own view should be regarded as speculative until proven true
Here is another:
E = no value
L = 50
L = 50
E = no value
N = no value
--------
100
.
Obviously it depends on what language the Antichrist's name is in.
True. And exegesis can help us with that. John is writing in Greek but he is also writing at a time when the official documents of the Empire are in Latin since it is under the Roman Empire. He could safely conclude that his readers would have expected him to be talking about either a Greek name/title or a Latin name/title that would add up to the 666 total.
so though creative writing/thinking might suggest Swahili -- that is a remote shot in the dark given that he would know his readers had no such reference... so then the more obvious choices are the more likely.
It's not important what John or his contemporary readers knew.
It only matters what language the name of the AC is and the AC isn't here yet so it could be any existing or past language.
it is when it comes to actual exegesis because the first rule is to hold yourself accountable to the "intended meaning" of the author - and how his readers would have read it.
If you know what the author intended to convey to his readers then you are a long way toward accurate rendering of the text. Because "Bible details matter" as we always say.
If you let go of all reasonable guidelines and just settle for 'making stuff up as long as it sounds good to you' --- then pretty much anything goes. And that is not very useful or reliable.
Bob, you are an SDA. SDAs believe the mark of the beast is Sunday worship. Are you saying you don't believe that?I have not gone in to much detail at all about my view so far.
Come to think of it - I think you have said even less about your view than I have said about mine. Or do you have a view on this topic?
All that does is make a person be able to limit the possibilities when the text is not limited to what the contemporary people knew. Scripture says knowledge will be increased in the endtimes so whatever language the name of t5he AC will be, the people at the time will be able to understand and identify the AC.
That's only true if John was the author and was the person behind the coded wording and symbolisms but he isn't. He is only writing down what he was shown.
My position is the most reasonable not yours. The text also does not support your timeframe-limited concept.
Have the last word if you wish but this a completed matter for me.
Bob, you are an SDA. SDAs believe the mark of the beast is Sunday worship.
As for me, I don't have a view on the subject. I am OK admitting I don't know.
You know what's more important to me? Making sure my life is right with God. If my life is right with God, I don't need to be concerned about what the mark of the beast is, because I won't receive it. God will never lead His people astray.
Bob, saying Sunday worship will be the mark of the beast is essentially the same thing as saying it is the mark of the beast. I don't understand why you can't see the logic of that. In other words, it is the mark of the beast according to the SDA church, but hasn't gone into effect as such yet.On the contrary SDAs teach "nobody has the mark of the beast" and that "includes" those who attend church on Sunday.
"No one has yet received the mark of the beast".—Evangelism, 234 (1899). {LDE 224.5}
GC 382-383
in what religious bodies are the GREATER part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith.
Bob, saying Sunday worship will be the mark of the beast is essentially the same thing as saying it is the mark of the beast. .
As for me, I don't have a view on the subject. I am OK admitting I don't know.
Bob, saying Sunday worship will be the mark of the beast is essentially the same thing as saying it is the mark of the beast. .
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