What Do You Think Of This?

[catlover]

LANCASTER, Ohio (July 16) - It's not Sunday but Fairfield Christian Church is packed. Hundreds of kids are making their way to vacation Bible school, parents are dropping in at the day-care center and yellow-shirted volunteers are everywhere, directing traffic. In one wing of the sprawling church, a coffee barista whips up a mango smoothie while workers bustle around the cafeteria.

The fastest-growing faith group in America, evangelical Christians have had a growing impact on the nation's political landscape, in part because adherents believe conservative Christian values should have a place in politics -- and they support politicians who agree with them.

I trust his opinion because of his beliefs," she said.

Signs of growth are everywhere at Fairfield Christian. The facilities will soon encompass 325,000 square feet -- about twice the size of an average Wal-Mart superstore.

Outside one window a jackhammer pounds away, part of an endless construction cycle at the suburban church about 30 miles southeast of Columbus. At the North Campus, 16 miles (26 km) away the main facility, there is another church, 41 acres for baseball, soccer and recreation, and plans for a retirement center.

Johnson seems involved in it all as he tours around the main church, greeting everyone by name. The pastor also is chairman of the Ohio Restoration Project, a faith-based group that wants to increase the role of religion in public life.
Johnson seems involved in it all as he tours around the main church, greeting everyone by name. The pastor also is chairman of the Ohio Restoration Project, a faith-based group that wants to increase the role of religion in public life.

In that role, Johnson is being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service for possible violations of a law that prohibits churches and charities from participating in political campaigns. He denies breaking any law.



http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/megachurches-build-a-republican-base/20060716105009990016

I find it kind of ironic that people believe being a good Christian means being a Republican. I disagree. I also believe if the church is going to influence politics this much they should loose their tax exempt status.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

The Chorus from Derek Webb's song, "A King and a Kingdom" goes like this:

there are two great lies that i’ve heard:
“the day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die”
and that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class republican
and if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him

 

[TruthMiner]

LANCASTER, Ohio (July 16) - It's not Sunday but Fairfield Christian Church is packed. Hundreds of kids are making their way to vacation Bible school, parents are dropping in at the day-care center and yellow-shirted volunteers are everywhere, directing traffic. In one wing of the sprawling church, a coffee barista whips up a mango smoothie while workers bustle around the cafeteria.

The fastest-growing faith group in America, evangelical Christians have had a growing impact on the nation's political landscape, in part because adherents believe conservative Christian values should have a place in politics -- and they support politicians who agree with them.

I trust his opinion because of his beliefs," she said.

Signs of growth are everywhere at Fairfield Christian. The facilities will soon encompass 325,000 square feet -- about twice the size of an average Wal-Mart superstore.

Outside one window a jackhammer pounds away, part of an endless construction cycle at the suburban church about 30 miles southeast of Columbus. At the North Campus, 16 miles (26 km) away the main facility, there is another church, 41 acres for baseball, soccer and recreation, and plans for a retirement center.

Johnson seems involved in it all as he tours around the main church, greeting everyone by name. The pastor also is chairman of the Ohio Restoration Project, a faith-based group that wants to increase the role of religion in public life.
Johnson seems involved in it all as he tours around the main church, greeting everyone by name. The pastor also is chairman of the Ohio Restoration Project, a faith-based group that wants to increase the role of religion in public life.

In that role, Johnson is being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service for possible violations of a law that prohibits churches and charities from participating in political campaigns. He denies breaking any law.



http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/megachurches-build-a-republican-base/20060716105009990016

I find it kind of ironic that people believe being a good Christian means being a Republican. I disagree. I also believe if the church is going to influence politics this much they should loose their tax exempt status.

One word.

Disturbing.

Just one more reason to think the end is approaching quickly.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

But, by the same token, as much as I may disagree with it, I think it's a violation of free speech to muzzle anybody's political opinion, even if he's a pastor.

 

[catlover]

The Chorus from Derek Webb's song, "A King and a Kingdom" goes like this:

there are two great lies that i’ve heard:
“the day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die”
and that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class republican
and if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him

Interesting post.

What about this particular movement do you think is appealing to people? I am not saying all Evangelicals are bad.

I can relate, better, to Salvation Army Evangelicals myself. I think their motivation to help the less fortunate is admirable.

 

[catlover]

One word.

Disturbing.

Just one more reason to think the end is approaching quickly.

So you think the mega churches are not what God wants?

I don't have a problem with them if they are reaching out to folks who say have drinking/drug/ abuse problems or people who have problems period, and they change lives, BUT if they are preaching to the choir, so to speak, what's the use?

 

[PETE_]

I find it kind of ironic that people believe being a good Christian means being a Republican. I disagree. I also believe if the church is going to influence politics this much they should loose their tax exempt status.

Any group of people that influence politics should not be tax exempy?

 

[catlover]

Any group of people that influence politics should not be tax exempy?

Isn't that the law? When I went to a couple of churches during the last election, they were handing out flyers about Bush's and Kerry's stance on certain issues. They walked around the "vote for this person" slogan. It certainly turned me off from church for awhile.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

The identification of mainstream evangelicalism with the Republican party is very unfortunate, not least because they set themselves up to be duped by any pious talking fool who comes along speaking their language.

The duping takes place on both sides of the spectrum and in both cases it's wilfully indulged in. On the right the Evangelical Churches toe the line with conservative politics and keynesian economics almost gleefully, while on the left, those believers who remain "liberal" in their social outlook have not been particularly descriminating in their acceptance of the whole platform the party traditionally equated with their values has articulated..

I think it comes from reactionary fear. Believing democrats are just scared poopless of caricatures of "Republican Evangizombies" and are just too willing to make common cause with the godless against them.

I would really like to see a strong, morally consistent movement led by Christians take hold, and change the climate in the Democratic party, taking it back from the welfare-slingers and the eugenicists setting the table currently.

 

[catlover]

But, by the same token, as much as I may disagree with it, I think it's a violation of free speech to muzzle anybody's political opinion, even if he's a pastor.

He is certainly entitled to his political opinion, but if he's telling his flock that you can't be considered a Christian if you vote for so and so, or you will go to hell if you vote for so and so, he's crossed the line.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

He is certainly entitled to his political opinion, but if he's telling his flock that you can't be considered a Christian if you vote for so and so, or you will go to hell if you vote for so and so, he's crossed the line.

Well, yes, that would be wrong, but again, not illegal...and anyhow, I must have missed that part of the article where he was telling his flock that.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

I reread the article and I didn't see any indication that Johnson tells his congregation that they must vote GOP or they will go to hell.

And this is what I mean by caricature.

We have to be careful with this stuff.

It's sufficient to disagree with another's opinion, we don't have to make up crazy talk and put it in their mouths. It not only makes us look foolish, it's uncharitable.

Let's keep to the high ground.

 

[catlover]

The identification of mainstream evangelicalism with the Republican party is very unfortunate, not least because they set themselves up to be duped by any pious talking fool who comes along speaking their language.

True.

The duping takes place on both sides of the spectrum and in both cases it's wilfully indulged in. On the right the Evangelical Churches toe the line with conservative politics and keynesian economics almost gleefully, while on the left, those believers who remain "liberal" in their social outlook have not been particularly descriminating in their acceptance of the whole platform the party traditionally equated with their values has articulated...

I don't like either party, but I suppose we have to pick the lesser of two evils.

I think it comes from reactionary fear. Believing democrats are just scared poopless of caricatures of "Republican Evangizombies" and are just too willing to make common cause with the godless against them....

Good point. Never Thought of that before.

I would really like to see a strong, morally consistent movement led by Christians take hold, and change the climate in the Democratic party, taking it back from the welfare-slingers and the eugenicists setting the table currently.

In my humble opinion assistance is needed, sometimes. As for eugenics that is immoral.

 

[catlover]

I reread the article and I didn't see any indication that Johnson tells his congregation that they must vote GOP or they will go to hell.

And this is what I mean by caricature.

We have to be careful with this stuff.

It's sufficient to disagree with another's opinion, we don't have to make up crazy talk and put it in their mouths. It not only makes us look foolish, it's uncharitable.

Let's keep to the high ground.

Unfortunately, during the last election there was that type of talk.


The Rev. Chan Chandler of East Waynesville Baptist Church in Waynesville said in a sermon before the election that anyone who would vote for Kerry should "repent or resign" from membership, according to nine members who took their complaints to WLOS-TV in Asheville, N.C. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44152

It was rampant. If the man has the IRS investigating him one wonders exactly what was said to initiate it.

 

[catlover]

Well, yes, that would be wrong, but again, not illegal...and anyhow, I must have missed that part of the article where he was telling his flock that.

It is illegal. Isn't that how churches have their tax exempt status? They seperate from politics and can't endorse a certain candidate?

 

[SpoiltMonk]

cl,

It's interesting that the article you cited points out that just 40 years ago these same people voted consistently democrat.

What has changed?

Well, and this is just my opinion, sixties radicalism changed the party.

The party of Truman is no longer.

I am not saying welfare needs to be done away with, of course there needs to be a safety net and a generous one, but the creation of a culture of entitlement among the economically challenged has had really unfortunatel consequences culturally...the saftey net needs to be wisely constructed. And when I say "eugenics" I am using code for certain really provocative moral topics...

But you probably knew that.

 

[SpoiltMonk]

It is illegal. Isn't that how churches have their tax exempt status? They seperate from politics and can't endorse a certain candidate?

I guess you're right about that, but there may be a distinction between what he does "in the pulpit" and what he does when just talking with his flock...

 

[catlover]

cl,

It's interesting that the article you cited points out that just 40 years ago these same people voted consistently democrat.

What has changed?

Well, and this is just my opinion, sixties radicalism changed the party.

The party of Truman is no longer.

I think we face issues that were not around since Truman. Life is somewhat more complicated. It hasn't changed but we face complex issues that people weren't faced with. Single female head households. Wasn't that a rarity back then? I won't say either way if single head households are wrong or not.

I am not saying welfare needs to be done away with, of course there needs to be a safety net and a generous one, but the creation of a culture of entitlement among the economically challenged has had really unfortunatel consequences culturally...the saftey net needs to be wisely constructed..

True, entitlement is morally degrading.

And when I say "eugenics" I am using code for certain really provocative moral topics...

But you probably knew that.

My question to you is, genetic counseling, is that considered eugenics?

 

[catlover]

I guess you're right about that, but there may be a distinction between what he does "in the pulpit" and what he does when just talking with his flock...

True, and like you stated, the context of how he expressed his political leanings were never discussed in the article. So, it was wrong of me to assume he stated such things. I suppose it will come out in court and I should pity someone who has the I.R.S bothering them!

But back to the mega churches. Why do you think they appeal to people? Why, do you think, is Evangelical Christianity appealing to Americans?

 

[SpoiltMonk]

Mega churches offer an "experience".

Americans want, more than anything to be shown a good time. We want to be entertained (strains of the Nirvana song "Smells like Teen Spirit" roam through my head.). We don't want to work too hard digging for truth.

We want cool rock music and a relevant message in the context of an uplifting worship experience in a large group setting where no one will single us out for hard questions.