What do you think about Pentecostals?

[mycatholicdiary]

I got a big smile for the using icons...

lol...can't help it, I love using these icons

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I finally made my decision to leave my A.O.G. church when we had an evangelist come in, and he was trying to tell everyone how to "speak in tounges." He said, "If you have never spoke in tongues, I want you to come down here in the front." So, a lot of people went down there. He told them, "Okay, you are all about to be speaking in tongues. Tilt your head back, open your mouth, stick out your tongue, and lift up your arms. When I count to three and snap my fingers, you will all speak in tongues!"

That was the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life, and no where is it biblical to do all that to "Speak in Tongues."

Before he spoke that night, the pastor of the church introduced him and was like, "This is one of my really good friends, he is a great man of God."

This is the sad result of listening to teaching that does not come from the New Testament. Although there are three references in the book of Acts where the Holy Spirit fell on believers and they spoke in unknown languages; and the whole chapter in 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul gave specific teaching on how the gift of tongues should be practised, there is no teaching that people should lift their heads back, make their minds go blank, and speak in tongues when someone clicks their fingers.

I am Spirit filled and I speak in tongues. When I am asked, I will lead people through to the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues. I believe that people receive these through faith. But I base faith in specific principles of God's Word.

I will always pre counsel them in a quiet environment before I pray with them.

1. Seekers need to know for sure that the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues is God's will for them. This means that they are not forced into something they don't know what they are getting, or are not ready for.

2. I believe that the baptism and the gift need to be asked for of God. Asking God for His gifts and blessings is entirely Scriptural, and is the way that He gives us what we need.

3. Once having asked, we believe that because the Holy Spirit was sent to the church 2000 years ago, we need to accept Him into our lives.

4. Once we accept him, we are baptised in the Spirit. We don't have to feel anything because the Spirit comes into our spirit, which is not connected to our emotions.

5. At that point, a person can speak in tongues.

All these steps are taken in pure, cold blooded faith. This means that the Spiritual experience is based on faith in God's Word and not a hyped up environment, the insistence of a pastor, or a sensory experience.

So, when I lead people through to the baptism, I get them to confess their faith.
"I believe this is God's will for me right now."
"I now ask for the Spirit to come into my life"
"I accept the Spirit into my life."
"I am now baptised in the Holy Spirit."
"I can now speak in tongues."

Speaking in tongues is significant because in Acts, Peter said that the things they saw and heard was that which the prophet Joel had predicted 800 years before, that God would pour out His Spirit on all flesh...etc. What was it they saw and heard? The 120 speaking in tongues! So, speaking in tongues along with the baptism in the Spirit is totally consistent with the experience of early Christians in the book of Acts. Peter knew that the Spirit has fallen on Cornelius and his family because he heard them speak in tongues and glorify God. The same thing happened to the disciples at Ephesus. We have three sets of witnesses of that, so if evidence was given in a court of law, the case for tongues would be well and truly proved!

Jesus said that out of our inner most being would flow rivers of living water. He spoke of the Spirit that believers would receive. Therefore, it is my believe that speaking in tongues is allowing the Spirit to flow out of us like rivers of living water.

I believe that the act of speaking in tongues has to be on the basis of faith. Faith needs an active mind. Therefore, shutting one's eyes, tilting the head back, and waiting for something to "come up" without us doing anything, is not faith. Demonic deception comes through a passive mind, this is why many people who try to get the gift of tongues by having a passive mind and allowing some force to induce them to speak, may very well be getting a counterfeit.

I believe that we need to consciously activate our faith. This means that we have to consciously do something on the basis of our belief. Therefore, to activate faith to speak in tongues means that I have to make up a language which I believe is the gift of tongues and that God understands what is being spoken even if I do not. The difference between speaking nonsense and a fluent language that God understands is on the basis of what I believe I am doing.

If I have followed the steps of faith, based on God's Word (believing, asking, receiving) then I can believe that when I make the conscious effort to speak a language to God in faith, that He will honour my faith and the language I speak will be the genuine gift of tongues. Without faith it is impossible to please God, and because faith requires conscious effort on my part, making up the language is totally consistent with the principle of faith as required in God's Word.

When I have assisted people, using these steps of faith, they have always received the real thing. Some have spoken beautiful languages as they have stepped out in faith.

What we need to do is to get our eyes off church practices and base our belief structure in God's Word. God is greater than any church. The Holy Spirit works in us independent of any church. Church is merely a place of fellowship. It is not the mouthpiece of God. No church can claim to be the mouthpiece of God, not even the Pentecostal church (as some within it claim).

If the Holy Spirit has taken the time to give us a whole chapter of the Bible teaching us the right use of the gift of tongues, that convinces me that the gift is genuine, and rightly used, is a blessing to us and builds us up in our most holy faith and increases our dependence on Jesus.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

i agree they have doctrine issues. holy spirit is not given as a extra gift after salvation later on it is salvation the speaking in tongues is wrong as well. BUT i am quaker so i would argue against water baptism and communion. So i see most denoms as having bad theology.

I understand that early in the 20th Century the American Quakers convinced the British authorities to have African Pentecostals thrown into prison for their faith. How does that reflect Christ? Sort of undermines what you are saying.

 

[Baqueinfaith]

God is too big for any one form of worship. Man is too small for all forms of worship.

I ripped part of that quote off someone.

Pentecostal-type worship is not for me. That does not mean it is not legitimate or that there are not many, many sincere Christians sitting in AoG pews.

As for speaking in tongues, one reason I am uncomfortable with it is because I fear a demon will be speaking through me, and that the demon will deceive me into not knowing the difference. For someone who is new to the faith, I think it's best I avoid this temptation lest I be lead astray.

That said, as for examples of entire congregations speaking in tongues on cue...I'm inclined to say that comes from man, and that true speaking in tongues is rare...however, that is not to say that God does not recognize the sincere devotion of those people, and uses it as a way for them to grow in their love of Him. Many receive the gift of God's grace after reading the gospels, or praying with a Christian. Why can't he choose that moment when they attempt to speak in tongues to give them grace? I see no reason.

But again, not for me. Different strokes for different folks.

God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Baqueinfaith]

Uh...no we don't



We do not bow to statues as a form of worshipping it. For example, while doing stations of the cross, yes we do bow before each station's "statue" as it were, but while we're bowing, we say the words 'Because by Thy Holy Cross, Thou has redeemed the world" So we are actually bowing because of our due reverence for Jesus' saving act of the crucifixion. It has nothing to do with the statue.



We ask saints/people to intercede for us. ALL Christians asks for the intecessions of others. We just include Saints in this group.



Do some good studying on the Catholic faith first and then come back to us. It's very easy to judge that which you know nothing about. I admit I too judge others because I simply do not know their teachings well enough. But I have come to learn that if I do not know the whole story, then it's better for me just to keep quiet and learn first before saying anything.

WE MUST REPENT!!!! Meet for a non-denom prayer session around a flag pole! We'll all bow our heads there and look for the non-denom minister for guidance, but that's different! Also pray that my aunt gets a new car. We can go to Bible-camp this summer because my specific Bible camp is mentioned in the Bible. Nothing we do is extra-biblical. By the way, do you have amplifiers for our contemporary service this Sunday? My stratocaster sounds great by my amp is pathetic.

 

[alton3]

I only ever see AOG churches in poor, rural areas or those settled by recent immigrants - usually from Mexico or Russia. I'm sure Pentecostals believe they are the denomination best suited to minister to these peoples' needs (to be fair this belief isn't exclusive to the AOG), but I haven't made up my mind whether to view this as a kind of exploitative predation or if there's something to this kind of worship experience that does genuine good.

 

[PeterVonVerkannt]

Well it depends of the specific church itself...Some pentecostal churches are "dead" and some are ADHD clubs...

The worsts I went to were spanish churches...You can't make the difference between "being filled by the spirit " and convulsions....CREEPY !

 

[xfisherman]

I was a cradle Anglican for 57yrs and even went to Roman Catholic mass quite a few times to experience if its better,but am now a converted Pentecostal.
In my Pentecostal Church,its not a requirement to speak in tongues,its a holiness Church and I love the presense of the Holy Spirit during every praise and worship service.Hallelujah all honor and glory are yours Lord God almighty,amen and amen.

 

[Pentecostoday]

I am sick of Pentecostals that think because they see signs and wonders in there ministry that, that is a sign of Gods approval and a license for pride, they should remember that when Samual anointed David, it was over for Saul and his line, but he remained king with all of it's athority and power for many years. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. I am also sick of non Pentecostals who think that signs and wonders are for show quoting Matthew 7:21-22-23. Not all who say unto me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven...The signs are not for show of the person, but a demenstraition of Gods love, and power. And we should embrace the truth. When an amarican soilder is wounded or taken captive even sinners rally to support. But in the church we treat our wounded and captive with a stigma, and then think that teaching preaching and dicsipleship is the answer. How sad. To much education not enough revaluation.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people."

I'm a member of DeSoto Assembly of God in DeSoto, TX. I'm also on the official deacon board of the church, and I've been involved with, a member of, and a leader in the Assemblies of God churches since 1963. (about 48 years now).

Like any denominational system, there are areas of ACCURACY in what they teach, and areas of error. No "denominational system" is any different. Only the "Areas of problem" vary according to the group's paradigm.

I don't PERSONALLY see any SERIOUS problems with their general teachings on the subjects you mentioned. And I've Been (what they refer to as) "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" since '73, and have spoken in a tongue ever since. I have been burdened to Interpret utterances in tongues given in church, and to give prophesy in a variety of surroundings.

SO the answer is YES - I find the AG "Acceptably accurate" in the things that they teach.

Simple as that.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tounges," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutically enterprit scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

Im not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.

Happy AG member here!

First of all, bear in mind that AG churches are not all the same. The central organization is very loose, and asks only agreement on certain core doctrines (the "14 Fundamental Truths") that can be found on the national website. While I love my AG church, I might not love a different AG church. And while your AG church may have taught some things that weren't quite right, that might not be true of others.

But to be honest, I am not particularly committed to the denomination, only to my particular pastor and congregation, whom I think are wonderful. I was just looking for the best church within a certain distance of my home and I think I found it. I care about doctrine, but mainly I just insist that it be the true Gospel, not any cultish variation.

I'm not clear what AG doctrine you object to. Basically, it's conservative Methodism + continuationism, and I'm fine with that. Of course, some AG churches are off on tangents such as Word of Faith, New Apostolic Reformation, the Toronto Blessing and stuff like that. I don't agree with any of that. I also don't agree with putting undue emphasis on the Gifts. I believe they continue and are still available to believers, and are awesome when they happen... but they are for the glory of God, not ends in themselves and not for stage shows.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Pentecostals tend to be a lot more emotional than Catholic charismatics."

I remember in the mid '70s in the FGBMFI, we had Fr. Richard Rohr as a speaker (Out of Cincinnati, OH). and he started by apologizing for the "wild nature" of Catholic Charismatic worship. And then proceeded to "Get it on" - with enthusiasm!!!!

It's been years since I've tangled with the Catholic Charismatics (since everything re-denominationalized after the Charismatic outpouring ended in the late '70s).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Yup Wilkerson was Assembly of God, and "Teen Challenge", while independent, is still tied rather closely to the AoG.

 

[Holler007]

I was reared in a pentecostal church till I was around 17 and then my church attendance dropped off the radar until I was in my late 20's. I feel the teachings I received during those important years of my life molded me into the man I am today. I began attending a presbyterian church in my late 20's and still attend occasionally, but I have gone back to my pentecostal roots. I was a full-time member of a presbyterian church for a good five years, but found something missing in the worship and preaching. (not saying anything against the teaching as the Bible is preached) I started back attending the church I grew up in and feel at home.

I attend both presbyterian and pentecostal now and enjoy both and love the people there even though the worship is night and day different. There are very big differences, but the theological foundation is the same in both denominations. There are also things about both that I do not fully understand or things I do not agree with. I do not fully understand the place speaking in tongues has. I have never to my knowledge spoke in tongues, but my mother when the spirit moves her does. Speaking in tongues isn't a main focus now as it seemed when I attended as a child, but this could be more from the changing of pastor or just the perceptions of a child. The founding pastor has stepped down due to advanced age, and a new pastor now leads.

Sorry for the rambling post, but I feel both ends of the spectrum as I have experienced have a strong foundation in the Bible and the teachings of Christ they just go about His worship totally different.

Cheers,

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Speaking in tongues isn't a main focus now as it seemed when I attended as a child,"

This appears to be the "general rule", at least in the Assemblies of God. The emphasis on the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit", and on the "gifts" in the Dallas area has all but ceased.
And the portion of folks in the Assemblies who have, or are even interested in the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit", has fallen below 40%, and continues to drop.

 

[Section10]

I think pentecostals are sweet, fun, friendly people. I think some forms of pentecostalism are gravely flawed in certain areas.

 

[Bugeah]

From listening to the Pentecostals that have posted on this thread, it appears that speaking in tongues is so that you speak a language that only God understands (correct me if I'm wrong). But what I do not understand is why you would need/want to speak to God in tongues when He already understands every language in the world as well as hearing our silent prayers. Can't you just say your prayers in a language that others can understand so that they can hear the wonderful words of praise too? It just seems very unnecessary (to me) for this to be something a person seeks when they can already pray just as effectively without it. This scripture says it well:

1 Corinthians 14:13-19
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue."

I do have another question for the Pentecostals. I am currently reading "Always Enough" which is about a Pentecostal missionary couple, and they mention in the book that they and other Pastors that they have trained, have raised people from the dead. Is this a practice you commonly believe to be true and of the Lord? This seems very unlikely to me, especially in multiple instances. I'm not saying that miracles don't happen, but we have no way to know when they are man-made or true miracles.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

From listening to the Pentecostals that have posted on this thread, it appears that speaking in tongues is so that you speak a language that only God understands (correct me if I'm wrong). But what I do not understand is why you would need/want to speak to God in tongues when He already understands every language in the world as well as hearing our silent prayers. Can't you just say your prayers in a language that others can understand so that they can hear the wonderful words of praise too? It just seems very unnecessary (to me) for this to be something a person seeks when they can already pray just as effectively without it. This scripture says it well:

1 Corinthians 14:13-19
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue."

I agree, so far as praying in tongues in public. Those I know who pray in tongues do so in private, alone, so the question of mystification of listeners doesn't arise.

I do have another question for the Pentecostals. I am currently reading "Always Enough" which is about a Pentecostal missionary couple, and they mention in the book that they and other Pastors that they have trained, have raised people from the dead. Is this a practice you commonly believe to be true and of the Lord? This seems very unlikely to me, especially in multiple instances. I'm not saying that miracles don't happen, but we have no way to know when they are man-made or true miracles.

I have heard of at least one instance of the dead being raised that I believed. But no, it isn't common.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

From listening to the Pentecostals that have posted on this thread, it appears that speaking in tongues is so that you speak a language that only God understands (correct me if I'm wrong).

There are multile specific PURPOSES for tongues listed in 1 Cor 14. There is an "Opinion" among some subset of pentecostals that "Only God understands", or "The devil CAN'T understand", but there's no reason to believe that's true. And there's no reason to believe from the text that "men" can NEVER Understand "tongues, since in Acts 2:4 - they did.

Tongues as a "Sign to the Lost" tends to be when a person is addressed in his "Mother tongue", right down to the proper regional accent, and told things that only God would know - by somebody who doesn't understand the language. That's rather "Arresting". Not Common, but another "normal occurrance".

"But what I do not understand is why you would need/want to speak to God in tongues"

And your Scripture gives the answer to your question:

"my spirit prays, and my "Understanding" isn't involved. What would be the PROBLEM with your "SPirit" praying - since the chapter also says that it is a PERSONALLY EDIFYING activity (1 Cor 14:3). Why would you NOT want to be edified???

"have raised people from the dead. Is this a practice you commonly believe to be true and of the Lord?"

Sure - why not? Jesus ministered ressurection from physical death, as did Peter and Paul - why shouldn't we also???? It's the SAME power resident in US through the Holy Spirit which indwells us that the Apostles had.

"but we have no way to know when they are man-made or true miracles."

I'd like to SEE a "Man Made" miracle that would raise the dead.

 

[agrevbuzz]

Another addition to the can of worms. Sorry didn't read all of the posts so if some of this is a repeat....

As to the charge that the tongues sound satanic that an earlier poster quipped. I adjure you with this warning. Beware of attributing to the devil the works of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was working miracles and the Pharasees accused him of casting out devils by the prince of devils he said...Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:21.

As to the purpose of tongues there are tongues that are for interpretation and there are times when we pray in tongues. It is easy to confuse these.

As to the Holy Spirit and salvation, you are saved by grace alone through faith in Christ (this is the AG official doctrine look it up in the 16 fundamental truths on ag website).

I have other issues as well, but I will leave it at that for now.