What do you think about god?

[Ave Maria]

I voted other. God is all and perfectly loving, all and perfectly merciful, all and perfectly just, all knowing, omnipresent, the creator, the beginning and the end, the Trinity, one God in three distinct persons, and many other things. Praise to you Lord!

 

[ChrisCountryGirl]

God is watching and protecting over us everyday wherever we go

 

[elman]

God is watching and protecting over us everyday wherever we go

But He lets you suffer and get hurt sometimes right?

 

[DailyBlessings]

But He lets you suffer and get hurt sometimes right?

It would hardly be fair if He did not, no?

 

[The Nihilist]

If God doesn't protect us from getting hurt sometimes, and he doesn't protect us from death, and he allows us to make our own choices whether right or wrong, then what, pray tell, is God's role in protecting someone?
I think there is no God. I think that if there were, there would be direct evidence for it. And I don't mean old books and accounts of miracles. I mean real miracles, not what some call "modern miracles." I mean serious miracles, like water turning into wine or Lazarus returning to life. I mean, if someone came to me and told me the only way I could get something good from him was if I didn't question him, I'd think it was a scam. If he brought along some friends of his who told me how great he was, I'd still think it was a scam.
Of course, this is when someone complains that there is no evidence against the existence of God. What a stupid thing to say. There is no evidence against the existence of Santa Claus either.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I think there is no God. I think that if there were, there would be direct evidence for it. And I don't mean old books and accounts of miracles. I mean real miracles, not what some call "modern miracles." I mean serious miracles, like water turning into wine or Lazarus returning to life. I mean, if someone came to me and told me the only way I could get something good from him was if I didn't question him, I'd think it was a scam. If he brought along some friends of his who told me how great he was, I'd still think it was a scam.
Of course, this is when someone complains that there is no evidence against the existence of God. What a stupid thing to say. There is no evidence against the existence of Santa Claus either.

So if I were to walk up to you, grab your water bottle, and turn it into a fine Burgundy (and you couldn't explain how I did it) then you would become a "believer"? I rather doubt that.

A lack of miracles is not your reason for not believing, but rather an excuse or explanation for it. Like the "square triangle" and other paradoxes, you have said "I will believe if----" and then offered a situation you believe to be impossible. This is the same as saying "I will never believe". Not an invalid statement per say, but the window dressing serves no purpose. The real reason why you choose against faith is deeper than games of logic and parlor tricks.

 

[elman]

It would hardly be fair if He did not, no?

Fair to who? Why is my suffering fair to someone else?

 

[DailyBlessings]

Fair to who? Why is my suffering fair to someone else?

If God played favorites, it wouldn't be fair. My neighbor does not deserve misfortune any more than I do. Should I be happy that my sister gets killed by the landslide instead of me? No.

 

[elman]

If God played favorites, it wouldn't be fair. My neighbor does not deserve misfortune any more than I do. Should I be happy that my sister gets killed by the landslide instead of me? No.

So you are saying God will not answer prayer because it would not be fair to the ones who did not pray?

 

[advaitadude]

I voted for "others". Not exactly an agnostic, but close.

I don't analyze if God exists, scientifcally anymore. It doesn't answer our eternal question about creation, but only shifts it to somewhere else. God created everything and he was never created, doesn't satisfy our scientific minds..I don't say its wrong, but just doesn't matter: we are without answers anyways.

But, does the concept of good god make sense? Please note the use of "concept". This is for the atheists, as they can analyze just whether Good and God in this world makes sense.

Everyone should carefully analyze his/her belief and find out if the reason for it is personal or impersonal. I too had my prayers answered (miracles happened) but was ashamed to claim a All Good God just because I was fed when millions were dying in hunger because they didn't ask???? God's existence was my security amongst so many uncertainties and naturally I was desperate for a reason for a Good God. Blame it on the people or free will if I must! If everyone reaps what he sows, then where did the first seed come from?

Free will? Agreed I have a choice but who gave me the choices? For e.g., I can't fly. If I am born among a group who teach me from birth that world needs to be bombed, what kind of choice do I have here when I have already been programmed what is right and what is wrong?? Everyone know society influences your thought and then for e.g., alcohol was bad for me before I came into a group which changed my thinking.

I cannot think ill of a child but there are a 1000 child molestors out there..the thing that bugs me is I didn't train myself for this...it was there!!! God, I found out the answers..reincarnation and the good/bad of previous lives are passed. Now I don't have to bother about the crippled guy who begs on a train.....its the moron's fault and he deserves it. My faults...well I have a kind God who will forgive me and take care of me, provided I ask. So, when did the first "appearance" of this re-incarnation story happen??

Several books have been written on reasoning for the possibility of the existence of Good God. Mysterious reasons, Bigger picture of Good, continuity of life and so on. I can't refute it, but I am just wondering how they came to know about it if God's intentions cannot be known by the mortals.

Let's play the game of creation and I will stuff some people in a room the moment they are born, with some man-eaters/evil men and watch. I am your God now. Whenever the man-eater runs after you I give it food and save you. That's my game. Now, you love the "unknowable". The man-eater is killing all others in the room but you because I am there for you.

The conversation b/w a believer and a dying man:

Dying man: "How can you believe in a Good God?"
Believer: "God is kind..Just seek his help"
Dying man: "But why all this"
Believer: "Free will. How can He hamper our choices?"
Dying man: "I don't want choices man...who put us all together and left our cravings unsatisfied. I just want to be happy"
Believer: "He has given you the gift of existence that you should be thankful for. You are suffering out of your own misdeeds and then you also committed a sin of calling your creator Harry. He is Larry"
Dying man: "I hope you are right man..otherwise we are done for!!"

I don't have any problem with the reasons for a Good God but with how you know that? But then the reasons can be made for a bad God too. Let's see, God created good and bad and one of those bad created us and is torturing us!!!! Or, God is neither good nor bad cause good and bad are relative and then life is a play with praying and answering a part of it. Now, why did u pick one of the above reasons..personal???

Please tell me if there is anyone here who has not had a personal benefit through prayers and can still sit among people in Africa and shout in the top of the voice about good God.

If compelled by nature people don't sin because of fear of God/Guilt, I am still very ok with this kind of society, though. Please don't pin me down as an athiest or any other types by my reasoning. I am not debating on the existance of God, but rather wondering about our concepts.

Sorry for the terribly long post.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste all,

i voted other.

the term "God" is too undefined to really connote much to me. for all i know you are speaking of beings that dwell in on the Formelss Brahma realm or beings that are in the Fine Material realm.

if, however, you are asking what my views of a creator deity are... i would offer that when you search for a beginning, it cannot be found. what need is there to posit a creator, then?

metta,

~v

 

[elman]

Namaste all,

i voted other.

the term "God" is too undefined to really connote much to me. for all i know you are speaking of beings that dwell in on the Formelss Brahma realm or beings that are in the Fine Material realm.

if, however, you are asking what my views of a creator deity are... i would offer that when you search for a beginning, it cannot be found. what need is there to posit a creator, then?

metta,

~v

Being unable to find a beginning does not mean there was no beginning.-just as being unable to dicern God does not mean there is no God.

 

[elman]

I voted for "others". Not exactly an agnostic, but close.

I don't analyze if God exists, scientifcally anymore. It doesn't answer our eternal question about creation, but only shifts it to somewhere else. God created everything and he was never created, doesn't satisfy our scientific minds..I don't say its wrong, but just doesn't matter: we are without answers anyways.

But, does the concept of good god make sense? Please note the use of "concept". This is for the atheists, as they can analyze just whether Good and God in this world makes sense.

Everyone should carefully analyze his/her belief and find out if the reason for it is personal or impersonal. I too had my prayers answered (miracles happened) but was ashamed to claim a All Good God just because I was fed when millions were dying in hunger because they didn't ask???? God's existence was my security amongst so many uncertainties and naturally I was desperate for a reason for a Good God. Blame it on the people or free will if I must! If everyone reaps what he sows, then where did the first seed come from?

Free will? Agreed I have a choice but who gave me the choices? For e.g., I can't fly. If I am born among a group who teach me from birth that world needs to be bombed, what kind of choice do I have here when I have already been programmed what is right and what is wrong?? Everyone know society influences your thought and then for e.g., alcohol was bad for me before I came into a group which changed my thinking.

I cannot think ill of a child but there are a 1000 child molestors out there..the thing that bugs me is I didn't train myself for this...it was there!!! God, I found out the answers..reincarnation and the good/bad of previous lives are passed. Now I don't have to bother about the crippled guy who begs on a train.....its the moron's fault and he deserves it. My faults...well I have a kind God who will forgive me and take care of me, provided I ask. So, when did the first "appearance" of this re-incarnation story happen??

Several books have been written on reasoning for the possibility of the existence of Good God. Mysterious reasons, Bigger picture of Good, continuity of life and so on. I can't refute it, but I am just wondering how they came to know about it if God's intentions cannot be known by the mortals.

Let's play the game of creation and I will stuff some people in a room the moment they are born, with some man-eaters/evil men and watch. I am your God now. Whenever the man-eater runs after you I give it food and save you. That's my game. Now, you love the "unknowable". The man-eater is killing all others in the room but you because I am there for you.

The conversation b/w a believer and a dying man:

Dying man: "How can you believe in a Good God?"
Believer: "God is kind..Just seek his help"
Dying man: "But why all this"
Believer: "Free will. How can He hamper our choices?"
Dying man: "I don't want choices man...who put us all together and left our cravings unsatisfied. I just want to be happy"
Believer: "He has given you the gift of existence that you should be thankful for. You are suffering out of your own misdeeds and then you also committed a sin of calling your creator Harry. He is Larry"
Dying man: "I hope you are right man..otherwise we are done for!!"

I don't have any problem with the reasons for a Good God but with how you know that? But then the reasons can be made for a bad God too. Let's see, God created good and bad and one of those bad created us and is torturing us!!!! Or, God is neither good nor bad cause good and bad are relative and then life is a play with praying and answering a part of it. Now, why did u pick one of the above reasons..personal???

Please tell me if there is anyone here who has not had a personal benefit through prayers and can still sit among people in Africa and shout in the top of the voice about good God.

If compelled by nature people don't sin because of fear of God/Guilt, I am still very ok with this kind of society, though. Please don't pin me down as an athiest or any other types by my reasoning. I am not debating on the existance of God, but rather wondering about our concepts.

Sorry for the terribly long post.

I don't know it but I certainly hope God is good and if He is not good or does not exist we have no hope. There is good and bad and you and I both have done and experienced both. There is loving others and hurting others and they are not the same thing. If suffering proves no God to you, why does beauty and love and joy and happiness not prove God is good? I think God's intentions can be reasoned out by us. He created us to have someone to love who could repond to love with love. That is why we exist. We cannot love unless we have the option to not love and if we have that option we cause suffering for us and others. I don't claim to have explained why good people suffer so don't say I did.
I do believe that all suffering can be used for good but that is not to say I can justify it. I return to the fact that if God is not existing or is not good, we have no hope. We simply live, suffer and die. I don't think we miss the gift of eternal llife because we get the name wrong, but I do think we miss it if we are not loving.

 

[vajradhara]

Being unable to find a beginning does not mean there was no beginning.-just as being unable to dicern God does not mean there is no God.

Namaste elman,

thank you for the post.

that is true. there also doesn't seem to be any reason to posit such a thing since one cannot be found. it is simply "filling in the gaps" in our current understanding which makes for poor theology, in my view.

if something is unfindable or undiscernable, there is no method by which such a thing can be demonstrated to exist. why then, posit such an existence?

metta,

~v

 

[advaitadude]

Thanks elman for patiently going through.

If suffering proves no God to you, why does beauty and love and joy and happiness not prove God is good?

Please don't pin me down as an atheist. My reasoning tells me that the creator of Good and bad, beauty and ugly needs to be separate from it, but its our own desire that pushes Him to one side. Often, one traits seems to create another. For e.g., there are so many who undergo hardship everyday and that's normal life for them, but if people having a white collar job undergo a day like them, then he undergoes "suffering", cause their "comfort" has defined their suffering. So, my "God" has to be above good and bad.

We simply live, suffer and die

We simply live, suffer, enjoy and die

I don't think we miss the gift of eternal llife because we get the name wrong, but I do think we miss it if we are not loving.

I do sincerely wish you an eternal life, and more important peace while living.
But all that you think of as elman: your body, your memory, your family, your religion is all going into dust on death...that everyone agrees. That which is not eternal can't be eternal and that which is eternal cannot die and doesn't need or receive your hope. If Kingdom of God belongs to children and not to us, then its our concepts that have brought us to despair.

 

[DailyBlessings]

So you are saying God will not answer prayer because it would not be fair to the ones who did not pray?

Who said God would not answer prayer? He may not answer it by giving you amnesty from all of life's problems...

 

[The Nihilist]

So if I were to walk up to you, grab your water bottle, and turn it into a fine Burgundy (and you couldn't explain how I did it) then you would become a "believer"? I rather doubt that.

A lack of miracles is not your reason for not believing, but rather an excuse or explanation for it. Like the "square triangle" and other paradoxes, you have said "I will believe if----" and then offered a situation you believe to be impossible. This is the same as saying "I will never believe". Not an invalid statement per say, but the window dressing serves no purpose. The real reason why you choose against faith is deeper than games of logic and parlor tricks.

Alright, see if you can follow my reasoning here. The reason I don't believe in God is that there is no evidence for the existence of God. Thomas Aquinas thought that miracles were designed to cover this gap. I discount this possibility on the grounds that what the Bible has in it are not miracles, but accounts of miracles. Such accounts are only evidence that someone wrote down a story about a miracle, and not that there is a God.
A square triangle is a contradiction and not a paradox.
The real reason I don't believe is that there is no evidence, as I have said, both previously and right now. Of course, don't let that stop your imagination from running wild about the reasons I don't believe in your God. You could make up some story about how I've turned my back on God, or how I'm merely stubborn and hardhearted. In my experience, that would be par for the course, at least for most Christians.
And before anyone says it, yes, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. If it weren't, we'd all still believe in the ether, caloric theory, and the physiological humors.

 

[TricksterWolf]

I voted for four of those, but it's not exactly true...the Dao can only be defined apophatically.

I can't say that God is everywhere in nature, but I can say there isn't anyplace where God isn't.

I can't say that God is good, because that would limit God to my limited comprehension of "goodness", but I can say that God isn't evil.

The Masters who knew God best in their lives were certainly playful. And compassionate, and watchful, and courteous. God isn't hiding...it's more like God is in plain sight where it's hard for people to see.

Trickster

 

[DailyBlessings]

Alright, see if you can follow my reasoning here. The reason I don't believe in God is that there is no evidence for the existence of God. Thomas Aquinas thought that miracles were designed to cover this gap. I discount this possibility on the grounds that what the Bible has in it are not miracles, but accounts of miracles. Such accounts are only evidence that someone wrote down a story about a miracle, and not that there is a God.

The only evidence of God creating a world is if he made a mistake the first time and had to go back and fix things with supernatural miracles?

A square triangle is a contradiction and not a paradox.

Point granted. Either way, does not interest me, except as a curiosity of language.

The real reason I don't believe is that there is no evidence, as I have said, both previously and right now.

Fair enough.

Of course, don't let that stop your imagination from running wild about the reasons I don't believe in your God. You could make up some story about how I've turned my back on God, or how I'm merely stubborn and hardhearted. In my experience, that would be par for the course, at least for most Christians.

Come again? I did not speculate on what the reason was, just pointed out that blaming such a thing on miracles is disingenuous, since the condition cannot be fulfilled- nothing you see would ever qualify as a miracle, since you do not believe that they occur. If I were to turn lake ponchetrain into a vat of jello in front of your eyes, you would remain skeptical, even if you could not explain it.

And before anyone says it, yes, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. If it weren't, we'd all still believe in the ether, caloric theory, and the physiological humors.

No, I wouldn't expect you to believe in something without evidence. However, many things which are constants to you are evidence to me, including the fact that the scientific method works in the first place. You don't need to "convert" or anything, I was just pointing out the error and hopefully encouraging you to ponder the nature of your faith more deeply. I've never met anyone who was just "hardhearted", there's always a reason and it's usually a good one.

 

[The Nihilist]

Apologies, DailyBlessing. I thought you were being snide; this is a fairly common response among Christians when they learn that I do not believe in God. I was clearly mistaken.
Now, I am interested to hear you go into what you call evidence and what you think I would call constants. Do you mean the matters of fact in the world that make it intelligible and that allow us to progress? That's what I gather from your citation of the scientific method. If I understand you rightly, and please correct me if I don't, I must disagree. I think you think that God has made the world intelligible to us. However, I'm going to have to change the example to show you why I disagree, because there are not counterexamples for epistemology.
Let's suppose instead you had said you believe in God because there is oxygen on earth. I would then say that we can only say that because there is oxygen on earth. There is no oxygen on the moon, but as a result, there is no one on the moon to say that he knows there is no God because there is no oxygen. We can only talk about God because we have been fortunate enough to live where there is oxygen.
Similarly, if epistemology didn't work, we couldn't not that there's no God.
It's kind of a tricky argument to follow, but I think it's credible. Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.