selfinflikted
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Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.
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"People die all the time. Your Jesus is a lie." -Every unbeliever if that's all you tell them
Keep going.
What do you tell them? I try to stick to what the bible actually says. Did you notice that everything I said was straight out of the bible verbatum? If someone doesn't believe the bible is true, there is not much else I can do. At that point, I respect their beliefs and agree to disagree. There is no reason to earn myself a punch in the nose!"People die all the time. Your Jesus is a lie." -Every unbeliever if that's all you tell them
Keep going.
I try to not change the meaning of what the bible says.Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.
But the point I'm trying to get at is do you agree with making people afraid of hell?
And what do you think about the people that try to be christain but wouldn't believe if they weren't threatened by eternal torture? I would really like to hear opinions.
Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.
Here, maybe, but out in the world? And many if not most unbelievers think Hell is a punishment when it is in fact just the natural consequence of eternal separation from God; how can you explain the Gospel without that essential distinction between our fallen state and eternal union with God?
You are probably right.Many, if not most Christians think hell is a punishment. Chew on that.
If you think you can explain the Gospel without mentioning Hell at all, then you haven't properly understood Christ's sacrifice.
Also, there is a big difference between "threatening" and describing.
Except most unbelievers here know that the above passages are not talking about physical death.
It's an underhanded strategy that works. It not only generates converts, it also helps keep the flock in line.
I'm fairly certain that if people didn't believe in hell, there'd be far fewer Christians in the world.
Except, I think that they clearly are talking about a death that is both physical and spiritual. CT's point seems to be that if I don't tell you that you are going to be tortured forever in Hell (which is not stated anywhere in Scripture), then you are not going to have any motivation to believe the Gospel. However, Jesus, Paul, and the other biblical evangelists saw the Gospel in terms of death vs. eternal life, not hell vs. heaven. They take something that everyone is already familiar with (death) and offer an alternative (eternal life). And, the means by which we receive eternal life is the power by which God raised Christ from the dead (i.e., resurrection). So, the promise of the Gospel is not that, if we believe, we will never physically die; it is that, through faith, we have the promise of resurrection, which is both physical and spiritual. And, the very notion of resurrection and eternal life as a fate for faithful believers absolutely precludes the notion of Hell as an eternal torture chamber, as the dead do not experience pain or pleasure.
So, ultimately, the idea that I can scare the hell out of you, by telling you about this place of eternal torment that some Christians believe you will go to when you die is rather silly. Instead, I can do as the evangelists in Scripture do and tell what you already know (that you will die and will be dead forever), but that I believe that there is a solution, if you want it, and that God's plan is better than death.
Except, I think that they clearly are talking about a death that is both physical and spiritual. CT's point seems to be that if I don't tell you that you are going to be tortured forever in Hell (which is not stated anywhere in Scripture), then you are not going to have any motivation to believe the Gospel. However, Jesus, Paul, and the other biblical evangelists saw the Gospel in terms of death vs. eternal life, not hell vs. heaven. They take something that everyone is already familiar with (death) and offer an alternative (eternal life). And, the means by which we receive eternal life is the power by which God raised Christ from the dead (i.e., resurrection). So, the promise of the Gospel is not that, if we believe, we will never physically die; it is that, through faith, we have the promise of resurrection, which is both physical and spiritual. And, the very notion of resurrection and eternal life as a fate for faithful believers absolutely precludes the notion of Hell as an eternal torture chamber, as the dead do not experience pain or pleasure.
So, ultimately, the idea that I can scare the hell out of you, by telling you about this place of eternal torment that some Christians believe you will go to when you die is rather silly. Instead, I can do as the evangelists in Scripture do and tell what you already know (that you will die and will be dead forever), but that I believe that there is a solution, if you want it, and that God's plan is better than death.
I'm surprised that you are just now hearing this. A physical resurrection is part of the Nicene Creed which most Christians hold to as a statement of their beliefs. "I look for the resurrection of the dead."I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.
I'm surprised that you are just now hearing this. A physical resurrection is part of the Nicene Creed which most Christians hold to as a statement of their beliefs. "I look for the resurrection of the dead."
Oh, that's why. Southern Baptists don't recite the creed during church services. My church doesn't either, but my beliefs align with the Nicene Creed.Before coming here a few years ago, I had never heard of the Nicene Creed. Dunno if it has anything to do with being raised as a Southern Baptist, but I considered myself well-read with respect to the Bible, and that was just something I'd never encountered.
Oh, that's why. Southern Baptists don't recite the creed during church services. My church doesn't either, but my beliefs align with the Nicene Creed.
I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.
Before coming here a few years ago, I had never heard of the Nicene Creed. Dunno if it has anything to do with being raised as a Southern Baptist, but I considered myself well-read with respect to the Bible, and that was just something I'd never encountered.
selfinflikted said:I was a Christian for more than a few years and I have never heard anyone else claim that the eternal life promised in the Bible was anything other than spiritual. So, you think there will be a physical resurrection involved as well? Interesting.
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