What do you see masturbating as? Sin? Sorry about all the topics you must have!

Floatingaxe said:

God never lets anyone down. Why are you judging God? Who are you to criticize Him?

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People conclude that God lets people down because they rely on the great number of false claims about Him that are presently being taught in today's pulpits and repeated by the devoted.

People conclude that God lets people down because they rely on the great number of false claims about Him that are presently being taught in today's pulpits and repeated by the devoted.

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care to name a few?

daniel777 said:

care to name a few?

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Let's begin with the belief that only some humans are members of the family of God.

sentipente said:

Let's begin with the belief that only some humans are members of the family of God.

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That is true! Only those who will come to Christ and accept Him as Saviour and Lord of their lives can be called the children of God.

John 1:12
But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.

Romans 8:14-21
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering. The Future Glory

Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.


1 John 5:1-2
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too.

1 John 5:18-19
We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them. We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

1 John 3:10
So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

Why did you exclude [bible]Matthew 1:21[/bible]? Notice that they are His people BEFORE they are saved from their sins. He saved them because they are His people.

In case no one has noticed...this thread has gone no where. The same arguments are being presented on the last pages as were presented in the first pages. I am somewhat angered (and apologize if my anger is wrongfully seated, but it is not an anger directed at anyone, so please do not think it any sort of personal attack) that everyone seems to say no one has put out any Scripture, when I quoted a plethora of Scripture in several of my earlier posts. I would understand people making claims about Scripture not condemning the issue if any of them had ever addressed any of the Scripture I quoted. Honestly, my position has somewhat changed because I have been willing to listen and consider. I honestly based my belief that masturbation was sinful upon Scripture, not the way I was raised or the life I have led. For example, my mother told me when I was younger that she didn't believe masturbation was sinful, I came back to my mother, Scripture in hand and simply stated why I believed it was. Also, the arguments that it mitigates sexual desires do not hold weight as much as many want to claim. "Curiousity" has been tabooed for a long time and for good reason, after all, "curiousity killed the cat". Sorry, I felt a little humor was needed in this thread, and I don't mean sardonicism. I remember the first time I masturbated, it was honest curiousity in response to the fact that my body was going through some weird changes and some new things were happening. Alright, fine and good, I can see how people could claim that that act was not sinful, I really can. I am not out to argue masturbation's condemnation any longer, but I am trying to look out for other brothers and say BE CAREFUL! Once we give in to one form of sexual desire, what is to keep us from giving in to other forms? Masturbation can lead to addiction (not saying that makes it sinful, just stating my "be careful" arguments), masturbation causes most men to desire some form of aesthetical stimulation, this often leads to a lustful fantasy life (Phil. 4:8) or pornography (an even worse bondage [1 John 2:15-16]). Satiating your body in one aspect can often lead you to desire to do so in more aspects (not saying this is the case for everyone, again just saying "be careful" to those who might be reading that are on the fences). If it is like Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8, which I can understand the argument for, then remember that in those passages Paul is very clear about making sure that we...
1. Don't harm our testimony
2. Don't cause brothers to stumble
If you can say, my freedom in Christ allows me to touch in faith, then amen, but do not tell other brothers, "oh yeah, it's fine!" "Go right ahead!" You do not know what sort of sin you may be leading your brother into, and you may be placing a snare in his path. Let each man examine his heart and most importantly God's Word (because it is only through His Word we can properly examine ourselves) and may the Lord Jesus Christ, the God of all peace and understanding give knowledge and understanding where it is needed. As I said, I have most assuredly re-evaluated my stance on the topic during my participation in this thread, but Scripture is the one thing that leaves me where I am, because this thread has done a wonderful job of breaking down the taboos and traditions of man, but God's Word still stands. So, I woud really appreciate some specific opinions on all of the Scriptures I put on this thread earlier, and I do not mean by this that someone says, "None of those verses say 'masturbation' in them." Truly and prayerfully, examine the verses, and if anyone would just really take the time to even go one by one through them that would be wonderful, and state your claim based upon God's Holy Word. Man can say what man will say, but God's Word is eternal and unwaivering.

Much love in Christ.

BloodwashedPilgrim said:

Once we give in to one form of sexual desire, what is to keep us from giving in to other forms? Masturbation can lead to addiction (not saying that makes it sinful, just stating my "be careful" arguments), masturbation causes most men to desire some form of aesthetical stimulation, this often leads to a lustful fantasy life (Phil. 4:8) or pornography (an even worse bondage [1 John 2:15-16]).

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That makes more sense than trying to turn it into a sin. Christians have this belief that the only way to get people to live right is to put them on a guilt trip. What better way than to say, "That's a sin."

sentipente said:

Why did you exclude [bible]Matthew 1:21[/bible]? Notice that they are His people BEFORE they are saved from their sins. He saved them because they are His people.

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Oh brother! Jesus came to save the Jew, the people of God.

Floatingaxe said:

Oh brother! Jesus came to save the Jew, the people of God.

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Ah! So only Jews are saved? I know a couple billion Christians who won't be glad to hear that.

sentipente said:

That makes more sense than trying to turn it into a sin. Christians have this belief that the only way to get people to live right is to put them on a guilt trip. What better way than to say, "That's a sin."

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WE don't put people on guilt trips! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and we obey Him.

If you are a Christian and ignoring the Holy Spirit's conviction, then you will be most miserable.

sentipente said:

That makes more sense than trying to turn it into a sin. Christians have this belief that the only way to get people to live right is to put them on a guilt trip. What better way than to say, "That's a sin."

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Right. God wants obedience as an honest response to His love, not as a result of a guilted conscience. However, the Holy Spirit's conviction, especially through the Word of God, is much needed in a believer's life in order to follow the Lord and allow His santification to be worked out in you.

Philippians 2:12-13
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

I am not seeking to guilt anyone. I would be made to be a liar were I to say that I have not masturbated. I am "guilty" of it as much as the next man (or was, because marriage changes things a little, haha). However, I am out to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the truth of God's Word, along with the sanctification of myself, the edification of Christ's Body, and the glorification of our Lord! My only desires are that we not be hinderances to each other in this matter, that we remain pure and upright before the Lord and before men (our testimony), that we edify each other, glorify our Savior and increase in the grace and knowledge of our Lord.

2 Peter 3:17-18
"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

Remember how Paul starts 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 (they "gray" areas passages)?

1 Corinthians 8:1
"Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies."

Romans 14:1
"Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions."

Much love in Christ.

all i'm going to say is that it's a good way to find an orgy lol.

BloodwashedPilgrim said:

In case no one has noticed...this thread has gone no where. The same arguments are being presented on the last pages as were presented in the first pages. I am somewhat angered (and apologize if my anger is wrongfully seated, but it is not an anger directed at anyone, so please do not think it any sort of personal attack) that everyone seems to say no one has put out any Scripture, when I quoted a plethora of Scripture in several of my earlier posts.

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I just wanted to clear something up in response to this, in my earlier post, i believe its on page 22...I did use scripture and introduced a completely new direction for this debate in the form of Romans 14...i haven't seen this area of scripture addressed anywhere else, so it has gone in a different direction as far as my one post which people seemed to skim over. I don't know if you have read it, but i hope that you would. also, i greatly respect what you have said in your posts in this thread. It shows a high level of maturity.

May His Spirit continue to move and convict,
Dmarketto

Dmarketto22 said:

I just wanted to clear something up in response to this, in my earlier post, i believe its on page 22...I did use scripture and introduced a completely new direction for this debate in the form of Romans 14...i haven't seen this area of scripture addressed anywhere else, so it has gone in a different direction as far as my one post which people seemed to skim over. I don't know if you have read it, but i hope that you would. also, i greatly respect what you have said in your posts in this thread. It shows a high level of maturity.

May His Spirit continue to move and convict,
Dmarketto

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Dmarketto,
I think I made referance to your post., tho not directly. I agree with your comments on Rom.14. But I think preachers and therefore the people in the pew are afraid to apply Rom.14 to issues because then moral issues would be relative and we can't have that. But Paul was comfortable with it and as far as I know even invented the idea by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

I asked one of my pastors what Rom.14 applied to once and he said everything. I'd have to agree with that.

dayhiker

BloodwashedPilgrim said:

Satan's greatest trick is to make you believe it's not so "black and white".

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It IS black and white?

How does God feel about walking around naked? Does He approve or dispprove of it?

Floatingaxe said:

Yes! God only sees in black and white, when it comes to righteousness, doesn't He? all the colours of our sins are washed in the rich red blood of the Saviour.

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So God sees it in black and white - but still you insist on grading righteousness. You're a bit more righteous than me, aren't you? Answer honestly.

Floatingaxe said:

Little toddlers are not like adults. It feels good, but it isn't because of sin that they do it.

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Uh, so children touch because it feels good, but adults have other reasons to do it?

Floatingaxe said:

It is self-exploration

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For both adults and infants.

Floatingaxe said:

and isn't sexual or sensual in any way.

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Actually, it's nothing BUT sexual and sensual.

Floatingaxe said:

It is certainly learned behaviour in boys and men. Innately they know it is wrong

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No, they don't. That's jsut something you assume. A muslim may as well have said that people "innately know" that eating pork is wrong.

Floatingaxe said:

There is nothing natural about it.

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So what exactly is UNnatural about it? Children do it because it feels good, and you apparently don'ty have a problem with that. So what makes it unnatural? Or, when does it become unnatural?

Floatingaxe said:

Masturbation is a major problem with self-control.

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So is eating chocolate. Having a snack reveals a complete loss of self-control. If you'd had any, you wouldn't eat that candy bar. There's nothing natural about it.

holo said:

So God sees it in black and white - but still you insist on grading righteousness. You're a bit more righteous than me, aren't you? Answer honestly.

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Who is grading righteousness? Only God does that. He gives us His handbook to discover how we walk in His righteousness. I suggest you study it.

holo said:

Uh, so children touch because it feels good, but adults have other reasons to do it?

For both adults and infants.

Actually, it's nothing BUT sexual and sensual.

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All wrong behaviour for children of God.