What do you mean, I have to "understand" Paul?

Open Heart

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Frogster

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Some did. But thousands hated him.
Also, I suspect that James secretly hated Paul, and only feigned to glorify him. That of course is my personal opinion as the text is not clear-- it can be read either way. Nowhere in the text does it mention them. Nonsense, that is just NOT what the text says. Acts 21:21 "They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs." They hated Paul because they believed he was teaching Jewish believers to abandon Jewish law. No, the rumors were unfounded: Paul taught Jews to keep Jewish law, and taught Gentiles to keep universals laws, as per the council of Jerusalem.

On the contrary it was the thousands of believing Jews that were ensnared by the rumors who hated Paul.[/QUOTE]
Some did. But thousands hated him. Also, I suspect that James secretly hated Paul, and only feigned to glorify him. That of course is my personal opinion as the text is not clear-- it can be read either way. Peter and John were in Jerusalem? You have a great imagination. Nowhere in the text does it mention them. Nonsense, that is just NOT what the text says. Acts 21:21 "They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs." They hated Paul because they believed he was teaching Jewish believers to abandon Jewish law. No, the rumors were unfounded: Paul taught Jews to keep Jewish law, and taught Gentiles to keep universals laws, as per the council of Jerusalem.

On the contrary it was the thousands of believing Jews that were ensnared by the rumors who hated Paul.
You say James hated Paul, an awful thing, as you say you can't prove it, as James says beloved Paul, and praised his ministry. What kind of debate is this?
 
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Frogster

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I believe James was feigning to like Paul. I think his "help" was a set up.
do you have facts to prove this accusation? You seem familiar, did we ever chat before, in other words did you ever have a different user id? just curious, thanks, frog.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Frogster

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Some did. But thousands hated him. Also, I suspect that James secretly hated Paul, and only feigned to glorify him. That of course is my personal opinion as the text is not clear-- it can be read either way. Peter and John were in Jerusalem? You have a great imagination. Nowhere in the text does it mention them. Nonsense, that is just NOT what the text says. Acts 21:21 "They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs." They hated Paul because they believed he was teaching Jewish believers to abandon Jewish law. No, the rumors were unfounded: Paul taught Jews to keep Jewish law, and taught Gentiles to keep universals laws, as per the council of Jerusalem.

On the contrary it was the thousands of believing Jews that were ensnared by the rumors who hated Paul.
But Paul knew they wanted to get him because of the gentiles, and because he preached the resurrection, it is in Acts.

But, you are indicting the Jews for hating, that is not against Paul, so really no damage done to Paul by your posts.
 
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Frogster

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Not necessariy. We've been over this before in detail, frogster. We are not going to agree.
you won't agree with common sense? Where did the saved Jews go to church? Those were the churches Paul wrote to! I proved Romans had both, but you ignore that, same as Corinth, and you ignore that. He addressed both in Romans, but you ignore that.
 
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Open Heart

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do you have facts to prove this accusation? You seem familiar, did we ever chat before, in other words did you ever have a different user id? just curious, thanks, frog.
It is an OPINION, based on extra biblical sources. I'm not asking you to agree.

No, we have never chatted before. You know me only as open heart.
 
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Frogster

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Some did. But thousands hated him. Also, I suspect that James secretly hated Paul, and only feigned to glorify him. That of course is my personal opinion as the text is not clear-- it can be read either way. Peter and John were in Jerusalem? You have a great imagination. Nowhere in the text does it mention them. Nonsense, that is just NOT what the text says. Acts 21:21 "They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs." They hated Paul because they believed he was teaching Jewish believers to abandon Jewish law. No, the rumors were unfounded: Paul taught Jews to keep Jewish law, and taught Gentiles to keep universals laws, as per the council of Jerusalem.

On the contrary it was the thousands of believing Jews that were ensnared by the rumors who hated Paul.
I said the Jews in Paul's churhes did not hate him, the Jerusalem crowd had unsaved jews all around to alter the truth. Show me the hatred by the believing Jews? Fear, yes, annoyed? sure, but you are acting like James, and all of the Jewish believers hated the beloved Paul, and you admit you can't prove it.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Yes it is all extra biblical sources. The theory does not contradict the Bible.
It might you know. If it claims that saint James was faking friendship with saint Paul when the bible doesn't make that claim. That seems like a contradiction.
 
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Open Heart

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But Paul knew they wanted to get him because of the gentiles, and because he preached the resurrection, it is in Acts.

But, you are indicting the Jews for hating, that is not against Paul, so really no damage done to Paul by your posts.
I don't think Paul was hated for his missions to the Gentiles. If I'm mistaken, show me the verses, and I'll concede. Certainly that was not the reason that he was hated by believing Jews, do you agree?

I'm not trying to damage Paul. Where did you get that idea from?
 
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Frogster

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I don't think Paul was hated for his missions to the Gentiles. If I'm mistaken, show me the verses, and I'll concede. Certainly that was not the reason that he was hated by believing Jews, do you agree?

I'm not trying to damage Paul. Where did you get that idea from?
Why did they go wild, when he said Gentile, and then wanted to kill him? "up to this word"...heheh time to conceed, they listened until he said the gentile word, then they wanted to kill him!

Acts 22:21 And he said to me, ‘Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’” 22 Up to this word they listened to him. Then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth! For he should not be allowed to live.
 
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Frogster

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You realize, I'm sure, that we both are claiming common sense.
so, as per my question, as you try to show hatred of Paul, who is damaged, Paul or the hating Jews?

by the way, your James thing is way off, you even admit you can't prove such an awful accusation.
 
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Open Heart

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It might you know. If it claims that saint James was faking friendship with saint Paul when the bible doesn't make that claim. That seems like a contradiction.
The verses where it says James glorified God for Paul could easily be read as feigning. Do you see how it could go either way? This is what I meant when I said it doesn't contradict scripture.
 
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Frogster

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I've quoted you Acts 21:21. Go back and read it again.
show me hatred..

here is your verse.

21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
 
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Frogster

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The verses where it says James glorified God for Paul could easily be read as feigning. Do you see how it could go either way? This is what I meant when I said it doesn't contradict scripture.
then you presume James is a liar.
 
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Open Heart

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Why did they go wild, when he said Gentile, and then wanted to kill him? "up to this word"...heheh time to conceed, they listened until he said the gentile word, then they wanted to kill him!

Acts 22:21 And he said to me, ‘Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’” 22 Up to this word they listened to him. Then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth! For he should not be allowed to live.
They raised up their voices because of what he said in verses 19 and 20:
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.'
It had nothing to do with him going to the Gentiles. I can see why you might be confused, though.
 
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