What do you believe and why?

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I don't know the source to the universe and it bothers me very little. I love to see scientific theory and lose myself in the process as my tiny mind try's to evaluate all the info. Then I reflect on the simplistic nature of a singular creative force giving rise to such enormous size, minuscule detail, diversity and complexity that life offers and just chuckle because I lose myself in that component too. So saying I don't know suits me just fine, it doesn't water down my experience any.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why?

I'm not quite certain what you are asking. I don't see why the source of the universe wouldn't simply be the universe itself in a prior form.

I don't know if the universe as we know it today formed from a singularity, or two branes colliding, or an expansion after a previous contraction, or what.

If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

I'm not a time traveler, and I don't think that science has firmly answered the question.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Paradoxum]

Well I'm not sure the universe popped into existence (where previously there was nothing).

Perhaps a simplistic timeless nature of reality necessitated that a universe such as ours would exist. Perhaps all possible universes exist, and ours in one of them. Perhaps everything is random, and our existence is without reason, other than random existence.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

I'm not quite certain what you are asking. I don't see why the source of the universe wouldn't simply be the universe itself in a prior form.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ok, so let's say before the big bang or whatever it is everything is expanding from, there is another form of the universe. Where did it come from? Isn't the entire integrity of science based off of cause and effect?

Are you saying the universe is eternal?

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

Well I'm not sure the universe popped into existence (where previously there was nothing).

But where did everything come from? Even if we are a result of billions up billions of years of necessary chance creation, where did that come from?

Can we safely say that the origin of all of this defies our logic?

 

[True Scotsman]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I don't see any reason at all not to believe that the universe as a whole has always existed. I think that certain things like matter and energy are eternal and are constantly in a state of change from one to the other. I think it is perfectly fine to look for causes of things within the universe but as for the whole, there is no where to look. I think existence is the primary fact. It needs no explanation, it is what we look to for all explanations. I think that life comes from existence. The only other alternative is that it came from non existence. I think it is wrong to begin with nothing and seek an answer for why there is something. I start with what I can be certain of, that existence exists, and go on from there to see what I can learn. I base all of this on inductive reason. I know existence exists because I can perceive it directly and in grasping this fact I grasp the fact that I am conscious and that the things I perceive are what they are independent of my awareness of them. This is my foundation for the rest of my knowledge. I believe that the universe as a whole or Nature or whatever you want to call it is the source of everything.

As to the exact process of the origins of life or the big bang I don't know. Science is still working on that. In just the last 10 years there has been much progress on a unified theory of physics and in discovering some of the basic processes that are needed for life to arise. It is a tremendously exiting time to be alive. Life is wonderful and so precious and I intend to enjoy every minute of it.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

As to the exact process of the origins of life or the big bang I don't know. Science is still working on that. In just the last 10 years there has been much progress on a unified theory of physics and in discovering some of the basic processes that are needed for life to arise. It is a tremendously exiting time to be alive. Life is wonderful and so precious and I intend to enjoy every minute of it.

So you trust in man to find the evidence of all things? I do appreciate your way of working things out, like starting from the here and now then working out. I do believe we are capable of taking what we know now and intelligently coming to our own conclusions. Would the idea that all of this is created by a god be too far fetched for you? I feel as if a lot of people (not you) enjoy saying God does not exist but have a very real fear of thinking about the origins. To say that the universe is eternal in one shape or another, means that inanimate objects have forever existed. This directly contradicts the process of science entirely rendering the very same process used by atheists to disprove God, worthless.

Eventually we have to start thinking about the origins. What if our science and understanding here on earth is only cohesive with our galaxy? Our universe? What if things change up entirely at a certain point? I feel it a bit pompous that people here on this tiny spec of the universe seems to have the right process of figuring out the entire universe.

What if our universe is a fish tank? What if there are far more and complex realities outside of this universe? To where the creation of our lives and this universe seems extremely simple and not complex at all? What if we really know nothing, after all? I come to this conclusion because the universe is intelligently designed, it all had to come from something. We could be just one multi verse among many, there are a lot of conclusions we could jump to. But all in all, nothing will never come from something and if that is so, something created it. Whatever did create it would leave a water mark of it's own being. The very idea of intelligent life coming from space rocks seems a very primitive idea. So what in the heck happened? We have to conclude there is a very real chance of there being a god. Now, if a god created something as personal and full of emotions such as humans, why wouldn't he reveal himself to his creation?

 

[True Scotsman]

So you trust in man to find the evidence of all things? I do appreciate your way of working things out, like starting from the here and now then working out. I do believe we are capable of taking what we know now and intelligently coming to our own conclusions. Would the idea that all of this is created by a god be too far fetched for you? I feel as if a lot of people (not you) enjoy saying God does not exist but have a very real fear of thinking about the origins. To say that the universe is eternal in one shape or another, means that inanimate objects have forever existed. This directly contradicts the process of science entirely rendering the very same process used by atheists to disprove God, worthless.

So far Man is the only creature who has shown an ability to look into these matters. I trust that men, using the scientific method and reason and logic, will discover what is knowable about the universe given enough time. Just look at the leaps we have made in just the last 100 years. Do you know that when Einstein was working on his theory of relativity, scientists thought that our own Milky Way galaxy was the extent of the universe? Now a little over a hundred years later we know that our galaxy is just one of hundreds of billions of them. Just imagine what we will know in another hundred years.

I would say that the idea of a god creating the universe out of nothing is not only far fetched it is wrong in principle. It contradicts every fundamental of a rational view of existence.

It is unclear how the idea of the universe as a whole existing eternally contradicts the process of science, so you'll have to explain that one to me. It would seem to be a non sequitur. Science deals with facts and facts are reality. If existence is eternal then its eternal nature is a fact.

Eventually we have to start thinking about the origins. What if our science and understanding here on earth is only cohesive with our galaxy? Our universe? What if things change up entirely at a certain point? I feel it a bit pompous that people here on this tiny spec of the universe seems to have the right process of figuring out the entire universe.

Actually we don't. We evolved on this planet and our minds are fully capable of dealing with life on this planet. Anything else we learn is a bonus of course, but we actually don't need to know the origins of the universe to live our lives successfully. As I said there are thousands of dedicated scientists working on these other questions. What philosophy can tell us about existence and life is that it is a great value.

What if things Change up at a certain point? Well that would be a violation of the law of identity. Things are what they are and they act in specific ways and only in those ways. They can not act against their nature. So there is no chance of the laws of nature suddenly changing.

What if our universe is a fish tank? What if there are far more and complex realities outside of this universe? To where the creation of our lives and this universe seems extremely simple and not complex at all? What if we really know nothing, after all? I come to this conclusion because the universe is intelligently designed, it all had to come from something. We could be just one multi verse among many, there are a lot of conclusions we could jump to. But all in all, nothing will never come from something and if that is so, something created it. Whatever did create it would leave a water mark of it's own being. The very idea of intelligent life coming from space rocks seems a very primitive idea. So what in the heck happened? We have to conclude there is a very real chance of there being a god. Now, if a god created something as personal and full of emotions such as humans, why wouldn't he reveal himself to his creation?

As I've already said, there is no reason to believe that the universe has not always existed. If the universe is eternal then it didn't need a creator. What you see as intelligent design is simply matter and energy being themselves. I don't see that intelligent life contradicts inanimate matter. We observe both in nature so there's no reason to suppose that life and consciousness can not come about by entirely natural processes. This does not, not, not mean that I believe it came about by random chance. There is no chance of random chance in the universe if by chance you mean an exception to the law of causality. No credible scientist thinks that intelligent life sprang forth fully formed from space rocks. It has already been demonstrated that self replicating genetic material inside a cell membrane can happen spontaneously and even at this most primitive stage natural selection operates automatically to direct the process, with molecules which self replicate easier than others quickly coming to dominate and with copy errors adding diversity in the genetic material. Scientist may never know the exact process of how life got started but they are already showing that some of the steps needed happen spontaneously.

When we don't know something the answer is never to look inward to our own imaginations. It is always to look outward at reality. Science is the method of looking at reality.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why?

I do not know.

If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

You're welcome

I do not know because, no one knows, so there is no one to teach me.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Are you saying the universe is eternal?

No, not necessarily. I suppose the universe could have an infinite past, but that leads me to the odd and unsatisfying conclusion that an infinite amount of time has passed to reach this point in time.

In my view, the past is more likely finite. That doesn't mean that the universe popped into existence out of nothing. Rather, it started as something (I call it the cosmic egg), which then changed into what we see today. Since time is an aspect of the universe, and not something the universe exists inside of (like an island in an ocean), there is no source of the universe other than the cosmic egg. The universe is entirely uncreated and self-contained.

This is just philosophical speculation, of course.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

No, not necessarily. I suppose the universe could have an infinite past, but that leads me to the odd and unsatisfying conclusion that an infinite amount of time has passed to reach this point in time.

In my view, the past is more likely finite. That doesn't mean that the universe popped into existence out of nothing. Rather, it started as something (I call it the cosmic egg), which then changed into what we see today. Since time is an aspect of the universe, and not something the universe exists inside of (like an island in an ocean), there is no source of the universe other than the cosmic egg. The universe is entirely uncreated and self-contained.

This is just philosophical speculation, of course.


eudaimonia,

Mark

It's kind of interesting you use the term egg with nothing to lay it

But this IS just a theory, but why does it hold anymore weight than someone who believes in God? Why does a cosmic egg that has always been there more viable than a God that has always been there?

If I spun a coin on a table then walked away, would someone else walk in and come to the conclusion that the coin was always spinning?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I believe the universe has always existed in some form or another...however, I don't know what the "source" of the universe is prior to the big bang (if there is one). It's almost as if you asked two different questions, though I'm sure that when you think about it... you understand the difference between "believing" and "knowing".

It seems odd to me that you don't consider someone answering your question with "I don't know" to be an intelligent response. Who do you consider to be more intelligent? A man who claims to know, but only guesses (even if it's a very good guess) or a man who doesn't know and is honest enough with himself and the questioner to say he doesn't know?

The truth is, nobody knows...any beliefs about what the universe was prior to the big bang are just beliefs...not knowledge.

 

[Freodin]

It's kind of interesting you use the term egg with nothing to lay it

But this IS just a theory, but why does it hold anymore weight than someone who believes in God? Why does a cosmic egg that has always been there more viable than a God that has always been there?

If I spun a coin on a table then walked away, would someone else walk in and come to the conclusion that the coin was always spinning?

Would someone else walk in and come to the conclusion that there was an infinite spinner-of-the-coin who has always been there?

That's my personal problem with theism.

We can come to the conclusion that at some point, all our knowledge and observations and reasonings about "our world" fail. We must start to speculate. (My own personal speculation about the origin of 'everything' is rather unintuitive and most likely will not satisfy you. I postulate something that I can only name as "primal chaos", but not describe, because its basic property is that it is undescribable. )

So what I cannot understand is why theists go from "All of our knowledge of our world fails here" to "So the cause is something highly complex that we derive from our knowledge of our world".

 

[TillICollapse]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I'm not sure what I believe the source of the universe to be, because I don't have enough information to formulate a belief yet.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Why does a cosmic egg that has always been there more viable than a God that has always been there?

Occam's Razor favors an explanation that does not create unnecessary entities, such as God. We know that the universe exists, and that time is an aspect of the universe (see Einstein's Theory of Relativity). There is no reason to posit the existence of a God.

That is what makes my idea more viable.

If I spun a coin on a table then walked away, would someone else walk in and come to the conclusion that the coin was always spinning?

No, but what does this have to do with anything? And why are you trying to smuggle the explanation of the spinning coin into the question itself?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Davian]

So you trust in man to find the evidence of all things?

What would you suggest as an alternative?

I do appreciate your way of working things out, like starting from the here and now then working out. I do believe we are capable of taking what we know now and intelligently coming to our own conclusions. Would the idea that all of this is created by a god be too far fetched for you?

It would depend on how you define "God".

I feel as if a lot of people (not you) enjoy saying God does not exist but have a very real fear of thinking about the origins.

What is there to fear? Will it affect the price of milk at the market?

To say that the universe is eternal in one shape or another, means that inanimate objects have forever existed. This directly contradicts the process of science entirely rendering the very same process used by atheists to disprove God, worthless.

How was God disproved?

Eventually we have to start thinking about the origins. What if our science and understanding here on earth is only cohesive with our galaxy? Our universe? What if things change up entirely at a certain point? I feel it a bit pompous that people here on this tiny spec of the universe seems to have the right process of figuring out the entire universe.

Are you not one of those that claims to have the right process of figuring out the entire universe?

What if our universe is a fish tank? What if there are far more and complex realities outside of this universe? To where the creation of our lives and this universe seems extremely simple and not complex at all? What if we really know nothing, after all? I come to this conclusion because the universe is intelligently designed, it all had to come from something.

Would it not be more accurate to say that you are working backwards from your conclusion that the universe is "intelligently designed"?

We could be just one multi verse among many, there are a lot of conclusions we could jump to. But all in all, nothing will never come from something and if that is so, something created it. Whatever did create it would leave a water mark of it's own being.

How could you know this?

The very idea of intelligent life coming from space rocks seems a very primitive idea.

What do you mean by "primitive"?

So what in the heck happened? We have to conclude there is a very real chance of there being a god.

You don't understand how life arose on this planet, so "we" have to conclude that there is a chance that a god exists. This is a fallacious argument.

Now, if a god created something as personal and full of emotions such as humans, why wouldn't he reveal himself to his creation?

I do not know. I would be sceptical of claims for such occurrences, however, if those claims could not be demonstrated to be more than a product of one's imagination.

 

[Paradoxum]

But where did everything come from? Even if we are a result of billions up billions of years of necessary chance creation, where did that come from?

I'm not sure I understand specifically what you're asking.

Why do you think it has to come from anywhere? Perhaps there was never a time when the universe or multi-verse didn't exist. Maybe it didn't come from anywhere, but the laws of reality would explain why it's here.

Can we safely say that the origin of all of this defies our logic?

Well nobody knows yet what the truth is.

 

[Colter]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I believe that God on infinite paradise to be the source of the material creation. The reason is the unfolding of Gods purpose, creations destiny.

 

[ChristCameBackFromTheDead]

So from all of your responses, this is what I get from this thread.

"I have not a single idea how everything came to be, but God doesn't exist"

Doesn't that contradict itself?