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What do YEC's think of this . . .

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Vance

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I don't think I have seen a Creationist response to this quote from CS Lewis. I think he makes a lot of sense here, and I would like to hear from any YEC's what they think of it and why:

I have been suspected of being what is called a Fundamentalist. That is because I never regard any narrative as unhistorical simply on the ground that it includes the miraculous. Some people find the miraculous so hard to believe that they cannot imagine any reason for my acceptance of it other than a prior belief that every sentence of the Old Testament has historical or scientific truth. But this I do not hold, any more than St. Jerome did when he said that Moses described Creation "after the manner of a popular poet" (as we should say, mythically) or than Calvin did when he doubted whether the story of Job were history or fiction. The real reason why I can accept as historical a story in which a miracle occurs is that I have never found any philosophical grounds for the universal negative proposition that miracles do not happen. I have to decide on quite other grounds (if I decide at all) whether a given narrative is historical or not. The Book of Job appears to me unhistorical because it begins about a man quite unconnected with all history or even legend, with no genealogy, living in a country of which the Bible elsewhere has hardly anything to say; because, in fact, the author quite obviously writes as a story-teller not as a chronicler.

I have therefore no difficulty in accepting, say, the view of those scholars who tell us that the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical. We must of course be quite clear what "derived from" means. Stories do not reproduce their species like mice. They are told by men. Each re-teller either repeats exactly what his predecessor had told him or else changes it. He may change it unknowingly or deliberately. If he changes it deliberately, his invention, his sense of form, his ethics, his ideas of what is fit, or edifying, or merely interesting, all come in. If unknowingly, then his unconscious (which is so largely responsible for our forgettings) has been at work. Thus at every step in what is called--a little misleadingly--the "evolution" of a story, a man, all he is and all his attitudes, are involved. An no good work is done anywhere without aid from the Father of Lights. When a series of such retellings turns a creation story which at first had almost no religious or metaphysical significance into a story which achieves the idea of true Creation and of a transcendent Creator (as Genesis does), then nothing will make me believe that some of the re-tellers, or some one of them, has not been guided by God.

Thus something originally merely natural--the kind of myth that is found amongst most nations--will have been raised by God above itself, qualified by Him and compelled by Him to serve purposes which of itself would not have served. Generalising this, I take it that the whole Old Testament consists of the same sort of material as any other literature--chronicle (some of it obviously pretty accurate), poems, moral and political diatribes, romances, and what not; but all taken into the service of Gods word. Not all, I suppose, in the same way. There are prophets who write with the clearest awareness that Divine compulsion is upon them. There are chroniclers whose intention may have been merely to record. There are poets like those in the Song of Songs who probably never dreamed of any but a secular and natural purpose in what they composed. There is (and it is not less important) the work first of the Jewish and then of the Christian Church in preserving and canonising just these books. There is the work of redactors and editors in modifying them. On all of these I suppose a Divine pressure; of which not by any means all need have been conscious.
 

Vance

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Dracil said:
They'll probably mumble something about Bible > C.S. Lewis.

And they would be right! :)

Of course, that is not the issue. The issue is to determine the proper hermeneutic and exegesis in order to determine what the Bible is telling us and, just as importantly, NOT telling us. So, my question would still be what their response to his interpretive approach, and why.
 
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Vance

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What I have noticed over the last few years is that Creationists tend to be squeamish about criticizing C.S. Lewis. They hear their pastors quoting him, they have read the Screwtape Letters, they know he is considered one of the great Christian apologists of modern times. My wife and I just finished the "40 Days of Purpose" at our church, reading through A Purpose Driven Life and Rick Warren could hardly get out of a chapter without a couple of Lewis quotes.

But what about his insights here? Any thoughts from a YEC or any other Creationist?
 
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SBG

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Are we suggesting that C.S. Lewis has always been correct about what he has said?

Lewis describes above that he has no problem if truth were told that the Genesis account originally came from pagan men. Lewis states that God guided what is in Genesis to be there. His statements above do not support evolution, but rather support that God has kept His Word, as He said He would.
 
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Remus

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Vance said:
Clever, but what do you think of his argument? Where do you think he has it wrong, and why?
I don’t see any argument here. I see a man that is justifying his beliefs. Who am I to say he should believe something different?
 
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Remus

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Vance said:
That is not what I am asking. I am asking whether you agree with anything he says, and if not, why not.
I don't understand the interest. Is it because it's C. S. Lewis? I’ve seen his name around, but I have to be honest and say that I don't know him from Adam. Anyway, you overestimate the amount of time that I have to spend here. My time is limited and this is why most of what I write is in little blurbs. I have an idea. Why don't we skip this part and we can jump right to where you tell me I'm wrong. I think we can save a lot of time that way.
 
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Vance

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Remus said:
I don't understand the interest. Is it because it's C. S. Lewis? I’ve seen his name around, but I have to be honest and say that I don't know him from Adam. Anyway, you overestimate the amount of time that I have to spend here. My time is limited and this is why most of what I write is in little blurbs. I have an idea. Why don't we skip this part and we can jump right to where you tell me I'm wrong. I think we can save a lot of time that way.

C.S. Lewis is considered one of the most prominent evangelical theologians (some would say apologist is a better description) of the last century. He wrote the Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, The Pilgrim's Regress, and numerous other theological and popular works. I am surprised you have not heard of him since most Protestant pastors don't get too far into a given year without at least one quote from him, and his works are considered seminal Christian writings of our times. In Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life, he had at least one C.S. Lewis quote in just about every chapter. He also wrote a series of Christian fiction stories for children called The Chronicles of Narnia. He was also an expert on ancient literature, and taught that subject at Oxford. Ask your pastor about him.

Here is one quote: "More than thirty years after his death C.S. Lewis remains widely popular. His writings are imitated, quoted, studied and revered. He is considered by most scholars as among the greatest Christian thinkers and writers of the 20th century."

As an aside, a few years back, they made a major motion picture about him and his romance with, and the subsequent death of, his wife Joy, with Anthony Hopkins playing Lewis.

But, regardless of who C.S. Lewis is, I would really like to find out what some Creationists think of his point in the OP. I think it makes a great deal of sense, and I have not yet seen anyone provide a solid argument against it.
 
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Vance

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Anduron said:
I do not put my faith or trust in men, for it is foolish to do so. Put my faith and trust in the Lord.

In more words, the Lord is the only authority on His word. For if Job is historical or not that is a question to ask God.

This is not about putting faith or trust in any man. It is about the proper interpretation of Scripture. And, yes, it is easy to say that the Lord is the only authority on His word, and we should ask Him, but the problem is that the Spirit seems to give different people different answers. God expects us to THINK about, study it, ponder it, learn more about everything surrounding it. We are to STUDY to show ourselves approved.

So, the question again is not whether someone agrees with CS Lewis, but whether they agree with what he happens to be saying here. Why or why not?
 
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Marshall Janzen

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Anduron said:
I do not put my faith or trust in men, for it is foolish to do so. Put my faith and trust in the Lord.
"It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others." (C.H. Spurgeon)
 
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rmwilliamsll

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SBG said:
It is not the Spirit of God who gives different answers. There are two spirits at work in all of this.

this leads directly into the problem of denominationalism, are you saying that all people who claim to be Christians who aren't your particular brand of Christians are lead by a different spirit than are you? The implication is that everyone who isn't Lutheran is demon-lead. Lest you think this a foolish notion it is the position of LDS, JW etc.

Since Lutheranism doesn't teach this extreme view, i assume that you have something else in mind with your statement above.

....
 
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Vance

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And there is another very important point (setting aside SBG's incredibly offensive insinuation that those who feel led to a different conclusion than his is led by an evil spirit), and that is considering whether the Spirit is not necessarily leading people to different conclusions, but allowing them to hold differing positions with complete comfort and peace because . . . they don't make any real difference to the essential points that the Spirit guides us on.

I am fully open to leading of the Holy Spirit and spend time in prayer and in Scripture every day. And I do, indeed, have that deep abiding peace about my reading of Scripture and my position on origins. Most Christians will know what I mean by this type of deep, abiding peace which I know only comes from the Spirit. Now, why would the Spirit allow me to this level of peace and comfort over my reading of Scripture and allow another believer similar peace and comfort over a different reading (as has happened millions of times over throughout the history of Christianity)?

The only answer I can see is that the two approaches to Scripture and origins, whether figurative or literal, whether special creation or evolution, make no difference to the what is important in our Christian lives, in Christian doctrine, etc. He can allow Bible-believing, Spirit-filled and led Christians to believe differently on baptism, communion, predestination, and dozens of other issues. To say that the one who believes differently than us on these issues is being led to that conclusion by an evil spirit is not the type of pride and hubris I would care to engage in.
 
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gluadys

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2thePoint said:
I would hardly think a myth or poem would get that much importance attached to it.

Why not? Just because you do not value poetry is no reason to assume God doesn't. There is an awful lot of poetry in scripture. Seems to me God considers it just as important as history.
 
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SBG

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rmwilliamsll said:
this leads directly into the problem of denominationalism, are you saying that all people who claim to be Christians who aren't your particular brand of Christians are lead by a different spirit than are you? The implication is that everyone who isn't Lutheran is demon-lead. Lest you think this a foolish notion it is the position of LDS, JW etc.

Since Lutheranism doesn't teach this extreme view, i assume that you have something else in mind with your statement above.

....

I was saying no such thing, but feel free to misrepresent me as much as you wish.

I am saying that one of us is wrong, and one of us has been lead by another spirit other than the Holy Spirit, if we both claim to be lead by the Spirit.

Are you saying we are both righ and both are lead by the same Spirit on this matter because God doesn't care what you believe about what He has given us?

And it depends on which sect of the Lutheran belief you are looking at. The most conservative doesn't believe that everyone who has a belief about the Bible are all lead by the same Spirit for these beliefs. If person A says Christ didn't raise from the dead and person B says He did, both are not lead by the same Spirit. Only one is right and only one has been lead by the Holy Spirit to their belief.

For me and my house, we will err on the side of the literal reading of Genesis and look for what Jesus has to say in those chapters.
 
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