What do we deserve? What do we have a right to?

[musingsofacac]

I have removed this post. Moving to a different forum because of the animosity that exists toward me in general marriage forum. I am done posting in this particular forum.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

I think you're getting rights and entitlements mixed up.

Rights are things that a person can exercise or not exercise. They aren't things that we can expect others to exercise on our behalf.

You have the right to love your wife. You don't have the right to demand that she love you.

And I absolutely disagree that children don't deserve to be loved by their parents.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Children don't "deserve" to be loved by their parents? Huh? What? Does that mean that if I decide that one of my children has displeased me I can cut them off or disown them? I can just throw a switch and turn off that love? It was love that caused them to come into being, the love between their father and I, it was love that made me endure the pregnancy, the pain of delivery, the exhaustion of sleepless nights...

So...by your way of thinking, I can have a baby, decide it doesn't "deserve" to be loved and let it waste away from neglect because holding it, feeding it, caring for it would be indications of loving it...no dude, that's seriously twisted.

 

[akmom]

I don't think this has any relevance to Freakazoid's post. It's just quibbling over semantics, with the key words "deserve" and "rights."

 

[Autumnleaf]

There is God given rights. The thing is, men with guns have to enforce those rights or they become void. As the US moves away from rights delineated in the Bible and we move to what the current batch of leaders are paid to tell us our rights are, and are not, we will continue to be crushed by the police state the way communist China and the former Soviet Union were.

 

[musingsofacac]

Children don't "deserve" to be loved by their parents? Huh? What? Does that mean that if I decide that one of my children has displeased me I can cut them off or disown them? I can just throw a switch and turn off that love? It was love that caused them to come into being, the love between their father and I, it was love that made me endure the pregnancy, the pain of delivery, the exhaustion of sleepless nights...

So...by your way of thinking, I can have a baby, decide it doesn't "deserve" to be loved and let it waste away from neglect because holding it, feeding it, caring for it would be indications of loving it...no dude, that's seriously twisted.

ProudMomxmany,

I think you missed what I was saying. I was saying I believe God wants us to love our children inspite of whether we think they deserve it no matter what they do or do not do. We love our spouse not because they do this or that and we think they deserve it, it is because we are commanded to.

So no in my view you cannot decide that a baby doesn't deserve to be loved or have its needs cared for, you are commanded to love and care for your baby. Now with children we might say "duh" I would care for my child whether God commanded it or not, and of course 99% of parents who were not nut jobs would say that.

But what about with our enemies at work or elsewhere? God commands us to love our enemies, even though they don't deserve it? God commands us to love our spouse, even if we don't think deserve it.

I was trying to say that we have to get away from the "if I think they(whoever they are) deserve this or that, then I will do it for them". That is the human side, God calls us to go beyond that. Again it is a tall order for us to fill sometimes, especially with enemies.

 

[Hetta]

I don't have a clue what this thread is supposed to be about. Something about "men" deserving their rights or something.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

2. Children don’t deserve to be loved by their parents, but God says they have a right to be loved by them.

Did you not say the above quote?

Why do they not "deserve" to be loved by their parents?

Make up your mind here buddy...you go round and round and change your topic over and over again.

 

[musingsofacac]

Did you not say the above quote?

Why do they not "deserve" to be loved by their parents?

Make up your mind here buddy...you go round and round and change your topic over and over again.

Yes I said:

2. Children don’t deserve to be loved by their parents, but God says they have a right to be loved by them.

Based on a previous posters comment that I agree with - I would change "right" to "entitled"

So I would rephrase my only the second part of my original post to:

"but God says they are entitled to be loved by parents"

So let me ask you why does a child deserve to be loved by their parents? What have they done for their parents that causes them to deserve to be loved? Are they entitled to be loved by their parents God says so? Absolutely.

As with the "entitled" change, I am not set in stone on this, just throwing the discussion out there.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

A child DESERVES to be loved by their parents because their parents are the ones who created that little life. What have they done for me? They've made me much less selfish, more patient, even more aware of God's miracles, and HAPPY! There is NOTHING more wonderful than hearing my children's laughter. Now, with the grandchildren, its even more incredible to see me and my relatives in them.

Once again...you are confusing things.

As a mom of many and grandmother of quite a few more, I can't imagine thinking whether or not they DESERVE my love. That is some seriously messed up stuff.

 

[musingsofacac]

I think you're getting rights and entitlements mixed up.

Rights are things that a person can exercise or not exercise. They aren't things that we can expect others to exercise on our behalf.

You have the right to love your wife. You don't have the right to demand that she love you.

And I absolutely disagree that children don't deserve to be loved by their parents.

ChristianGolfer,

I agree with you on the change about entitlements. A right is something we exercise, and then there are entitlements.

So does my child have a right to be loved by me? No, but they are entitled to be loved by me because God says so.

I am not firm in this, just thinking based on some statements made in another thread about what we deserve.

So all - what do you think God has given us a right to do(exercise)?
what do you think God has entitled us to?(children, humans in general, spouses, enemies, citizens?)

I also agree with you that we don't have a right to demand our kids, our spouse, or our friends love us. We are entitled to be loved, based on the fact that God commands us to love one another. But we cannot demand that love, only God can.

 

[musingsofacac]

There is God given rights. The thing is, men with guns have to enforce those rights or they become void. As the US moves away from rights delineated in the Bible and we move to what the current batch of leaders are paid to tell us our rights are, and are not, we will continue to be crushed by the police state the way communist China and the former Soviet Union were.

I agree we have moved away from the era in American history where rights were considered granted by God, now they are considered granted or not granted by the Federal Government.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

ChristianGolfer,

I agree with you on the change about entitlements. A right is something we exercise, and then there are entitlements.

So does my child have a right to be loved by me? No, but they are entitled to be loved by me because God says so.

I am not firm in this, just thinking based on some statements made in another thread about what we deserve.

So all - what do you think God has given us a right to do(exercise)?
what do you think God has entitled us to?(children, humans in general, spouses, enemies, citizens?)

I also agree with you that we don't have a right to demand our kids, our spouse, or our friends love us. We are entitled to be loved, based on the fact that God commands us to love one another. But we cannot demand that love, only God can.

If you believe that man is a sinner, then men have no rights to demand anything neither are we entitled to anything other than damnation.

However, if one is a believer, then we are commanded to love one another as God loves us. However, we have no right to demand that anyone love us.

When it comes to our children, they are deserving of our love and protection...we are commanded to do so in scripture also.

Husbands are commanded to love their wives, but wives are not commanded to love their husbands. (Ephesians 5)

I still think you have some odd ideas on what is scriptural and what isn't.

 

[musingsofacac]

If you believe that man is a sinner, then men have no rights to demand anything neither are we entitled to anything other than damnation.

However, if one is a believer, then we are commanded to love one another as God loves us. However, we have no right to demand that anyone love us.

When it comes to our children, they are deserving of our love and protection...we are commanded to do so in scripture also.

Husbands are commanded to love their wives, but wives are not commanded to love their husbands. (Ephesians 5)

I still think you have some odd ideas on what is scriptural and what isn't.

Actually the Bible does command wives to love their husbands, its just not in Ephesians 5, it is in Titus 2:3-4:

3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children,

 

[ProudMomxmany]

Ok...you win....whatever...

I'm over it and over you.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

ChristianGolfer,

I agree with you on the change about entitlements. A right is something we exercise, and then there are entitlements.

So does my child have a right to be loved by me? No, but they are entitled to be loved by me because God says so.

Would you love your children if God hadn't said you're supposed to?

Don't even unbelievers love their own children?

Love isn't about rights.

We don't love because we're commanded to. We love because God loved us first, because the Holy Spirit indwells us and puts love in our hearts for others. The fruit of the Spirit is love... spiritual fruit grows naturally from us when we're connected to the source of Love.

When you talk about rights and entitlements and expectations and commandments, you tear out the heart of love. It becomes just another legalism.

 

[ProudMomxmany]

When you talk about rights and entitlements and expectations and commandments, you tear out the heart of love. It becomes just another legalism.

I have noticed that Muse is pretty legalistic. That's not something I can get behind. I tried that early in my Christian walk, I thought that being a Christian was basically like carrying around a checklist all the time to make sure I did everything "right" and obeyed all the "rules". But, there was no joy in it. There was no joy in my salvation at all. Once we left the legalistic church and I discovered that being a Christian was about a heart change not a checklist, I discovered the JOY.

So...maybe I don't do the "deep" thinking anymore...but there's a lot I finally figured out a long time ago and don't really feel the need to revisit those topics.

 

[musingsofacac]

I have removed this post. Moving to a different forum because of the animosity that exists toward me in general marriage forum. I am done posting in this particular forum.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I have removed this post. Moving to a different forum because of the animosity that exists toward me in general marriage forum. I am done posting in this particular forum.

Yes, that should fix it. Try General Theology, they'll love you there...

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

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