What do nonCatholics think of this Catholic teaching?

[Erose]

My goodness, did ya have to quote the whole post

He did take time to write it. It was the least I could do.

 

[Erose]

I've just opened up that thing we all call the Bible, and guess what; Oh never mind, you know I'm going to tell you anyway.

Matthew 16:
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Take particular notice that JESUS called Peter SATAN, saying "you are an offense to me, for you are not mindful of the things of GOD, but the things of men.


Matthew 23:9-15


9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[a]
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Now this is a very uncomfortable passage for RCs because it refutes all their claims with regard to obedience to CHRIST.
Jesus said, "Call no man Father." The RCC says "We'll do whatsoever we like, because our pope is infallable in excathreda and can't possibly be wrong.
The proselytizers make their proselytes twice the children of HELL as they are themselves.

The truth will out.

Gerry.

Hmm. Nope those passages didn't make me uncomfortable at all, Gerry. Thanks for trying. Every once in a while it is good to feel uncomfortable. Regretfully I guess St. Paul is disobedient to Christ according to you:

Phil 2: [19] And I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy unto you shortly, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know the things concerning you. [20] For I have no man so of the same mind, who with sincere affection is solicitous for you.
[21] For all seek the things that are their own; not the things that are Jesus Christ's. [22] Now know ye the proof of him, that as a son with the father, so hath he served with me in the gospel.

1Th 2: [10] You are witnesses, and God also, how holily, and justly, and without blame, we have been to you that have believed:
[11] As you know in what manner, entreating and comforting you, (as a father doth his children,)

1Tm 5: [1] An ancient man rebuke not, but entreat him as a father: young men, as brethren:

 

[Erose]

Just try to follow along. Here's a hint, though. There can't very well be a Roman Catholic Church before there were any Popes, right?

Oookkkk. Just answer the question if you have an answer.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ToroEmbolados Do you really think that we will fall for that fabrication as easily as RCs do?


[SIZE=+1]Rome Has Spoken, The Case Is Closed, Another RC Fabrication[/SIZE]


You didn't even read it, or the other two parts.

Most RC apologists wannabees don't actually read the posts but are just waiting to cut and paste more material from Catholic Answers or some other RC propaganda site.

I wanna be a wannabee

 

[steve_bakr]

Originally Posted by ToroEmbolados Originally Posted by ToroEmbolados
Really?

Are you going to quit playing the victim card?

Are you going to quit with the ad hom, false accusations of scrutiny of the RCC teachings and practices being "anti-Catholic", "Catholic bashing", "bigotted"?

Are you going to quit promoting the RCC as the one and only true church?

It is noticed that you did not say, "yes" to any of those.

Please, don't try to pass off doublespeak to me, I know it all too well.

I asked you a simple yes or no question, so don't answer with doublespeak.

Not until the Vatican and RCC renounces Trent.


Of course I did. You were whining and playing the victim card, whether you know it or not.

I have made no ad hom. Stating plain facts is not ad hom.

I suggest you really go find out what real ad hom is.

Now, if I said you are a boneheaded, stupid, bucktoothed backwoods inbred imbecile, THAT would be ad hominem.

Saying you parroted RC talking points is NOT ad hominem, it's a plain FACT.

I really think it would be good for you to not be so hypersensitive and go looking for the slightest thing to be offended over, because on boards like this, often time plain language is used that is offensive to the hypersensitive, thin skinned types who need everything to be sugarcoated and play kissyface.

Thanks for the advice. I don't see how this thread can go on much longer, though. Lord knows I tried to make peace with you. It's the Christian thing to do.

 

[Erose]

I would never deny that you have faith; what I do say is that your faith is in vain and without real substance. Your faith is not really in Christ, it is in what the RCC tells you to believe about Christ.
Talking about horses....you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink! I can introduce you to the truth but I can't make you believe it.
You've got a religion that makes you happy but you aint got the truth.
You asked me a direct question as to whether I was stating that you are NOT a Christian and I answered as honestly as I could with a YES answer. You accuse us (Evangelicals) of not understanding the importance of good works in relation to GRACE as though you are the only one who does; when in fact you distort the Gospel of Christ with the doctrines of Rome.
I certainly am not talking around you with anything.

Gerry.

Ecumenism is tantamount to compromise and cannot be engaged in by true Christians because we have neither the power nor the authority to do so. (compromise that is)

Ok so now I in your mind am not a Christian. Hmm, very interesting that you say that. I wonder why you would say that. Do you know me as a person? Have I accused of not being a Christian?

Look I have been on your side before. My problem was I read the Bible and from what I read in the Bible compared to what my pastor was teaching wasn't jiving. To be honest, I never wanted to be Catholic. I would have preferred to stay in my little comfortable place in the pews of a evangelical church. It would have made my life a lot easier with my wife and my friends at that time. Heck I would probably be a Pastor somewhere right now.

But the problem is truth is truth and when you ask God to lead you into all truth, you got to go whereever He takes you.

I love where I am at. When I read the Scriptures I don't have to do flips to make them jive with what I believe. I can just read them as they are. It is just simplier that way for me. If you have come here to this forum thinking you are going to convert anyone to anything well buddy you are in the wrong place. People here are pretty much set in what they believe. I have no preconceptions that I am one day going to be able to convert Albion, Standing Up or Rick Otto to Catholicism.

What I am here for and what they most probably are here for is to be challenged and to learn what others believe. We learn from each other, period.

For example I know what I am going to get from Albion. He is not going to let me get away with any assertions. If I come at him with an assertion, I better be able to back it up. But that is why I like debating Albion.

Standing Up and I have had some incredible go arounds on some minute topics and we have both gone to the nth degree on those subjects, because quite frankly we are both stubborn to the core. But that is the reason why I like SU. He don't play and neither do I.

There is a number of other persons here that I respect because they push me to the limit. RazeontheRock, Sunlover, Montalban, Rick Otto, bbbbbbb and Cosmic Charlie to name a few.

Maybe one day who knows we will get a chance to meet and maybe have dinner.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks for the advice. I don't see how this thread can go on much longer, though. Lord knows I tried to make peace with you. It's the Christian thing to do.

Tis a miracle it has gone on this long

 

[Erose]

Tell us, why do you still sin?

If you say you don't sin, John the Revelator says the one who says he does not sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.

So, why do you still sin?

Because giving up this world and all of the bad habits developed over the years is not easy. God gives me the grace abundantly to break from sin, but sometimes I am too stupid, stubborn, or unwilling to latch onto that grace. Basically I am going through life just like everyone else.

I have learned though that I can't break from sin without God. I can't do it for I have tried in the pass to do so. When I went on my own I failed miserably and sin heeped upon sin and I just became a worse person. When I wizened up and realized that without help and I do mean divine help, I cannot overcome the evil in my life that is when I began to see signficant improvement.

I am no longer chained to my most grevious sins. It is not often that I fall into mortal sin, where before it was a daily occurance. I still have problems with venial sin but I am slowly but surely trusting fully in God's grace when it comes to that.

I pray for forgiveness daily for those venial sins and go to confession as often as I can even when I do not commit a mortal sin for in this sacrament we receive grace from God to overcome the evil in our lives.

I have no doubt of the sin in my life and I have no doubt about the consequences of those sins especially if I put those chains that I have been freed from back onto my wrists and feet.

What I have seen a lot from many in the Sola Fide crowd is a loss of understanding of the magnitude of sin in their own lives for you believe that any sin done after your initial justification has no bearing upon your ultimate destiny. I want to emphasize the "many" above. For there is also many that do understand the magnitude and fight daily to overcome the evil in their lives.

 

[Erose]

The ECFs saw the "keys" as the Gospel that unlocks the gates of heaven, keys which are received by every Christian who is of the same profession of faith as Peter.

Augustine sums it up nicely:





And that is the consensus of the ECFs.
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Ah but you completely misinterpreted it didn't you. Augustine pointed out in this that the Church has the keys because of Peter. Peter was completely unique among all of the bishops in that Peter was the bishop of the whole Church and not a particular church. Because of this the Church has the keys because Peter has the keys. Now this is the concensus of the ECFs.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ah but you completely misinterpreted it didn't you. Augustine pointed out in this that the Church has the keys because of Peter. Peter was completely unique among all of the bishops in that Peter was the bishop of the whole Church and not a particular church. Because of this the Church has the keys because Peter has the keys. Now this is the concensus of the ECFs.

One of these days I will have to read thru them...so much to read, so little time

http://www.christianforums.com/t7263824-16/#post47928988
Did the ECFs really know/understand the Scriptures better?

http://www.christianforums.com/t6730.../#post42616669
Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, not at all. obviously you have no idea what the ECFs said and meant.

The ECFs, as Augustine summed up, considered Peter to be a figurative symbol of the whole body of Christians to whom the keys to the kingdom(IE-THE GOSPEL) were given to and as Augustine said, "NOT JUST ONE MAN BUT TO ALL".

The problem is, RCs suffer from the Peter syndrome, seeing "pope" instead of Peter and back engineer middle age RC papal claims into snippets where they do not exist.

You noticed that also?

edti to add: dang, that board is still open!

http://www.christianforums.com/t6958045-5/#post51146994
Does the Roman Church focus on Peter too much

I was thinking since Peter of the NT is brought up so much on GT, I thought I would take a poll just to see how many would be interested in makina a whole board strictly concerning him as there is with Mary.

It could be called the "Peterology" board and thus it would help free up GT to discuss the theology of the Bible instead of one Denomination coming in and using it for defense concerning the Pope and RCC.
I am just making it a simple vote.

 

[Albion]

Ah but you completely misinterpreted it didn't you. Augustine pointed out in this that the Church has the keys because of Peter. Peter was completely unique among all of the bishops in that Peter was the bishop of the whole Church and not a particular church. Because of this the Church has the keys because Peter has the keys. Now this is the concensus of the ECFs

.

1. IS it actually the "concensus of the ECFs?" No, such a consensus does not exist.

2. A consensus among the ECF's, if true, would NOT establish anything as true by Tradition, anyway. That would require unanimity, not consensus.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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