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I disagree with your position. "Passive" here means really nothing, since it's a deponent verb. Either way, I'm enjoying having your voice on the forum.There is still a Coney Island?I grew up on Long Beach Island in South Jersey... been up your way a few hundred times. I get your point, but... the connection to the imperative, as I understand it, adds weight but doesn't turn it into command form, the "teach" is in command form the "going" is still passive.
I have gone back and forth with this often for a while and am fairly settled where I am now based in part about what we are discussing but just as much if not more once heresy is understood and factored in. I won't manipulate or otherwise try to force anyone into anything, either they desire to learn, or they don't.
Enjoy your day and the rides!
I disagree with your position. "Passive" here means really nothing, since it's a deponent verb. Either way, I'm enjoying having your voice on the forum.
Yonah, I thought I would throw this in, too. I am one who doesn't necessarily see anything new in the "NT." Yes the Torah moves from stone to heart, yes their has been a transfer in weight from a Levitical Priesthood (still everlasting mind you) to the Melchizedekian Priesthood but by and large, all we see has either happened before or was prophesied to happen. So, when I see the Great Commission as we have discussed it here, I also think of the V'ahavta which in part says:
"Teach them diligently to your children and speak of them while you sit in your home, while you walk on the way, when you lay down and when you rise up."
The idea of teaching Torah in all we do, wherever and whenever we can, seems aligned to the Great Commission because let's face it... Yeshua wasn't calling the Lost Sheep back to a new way, but rather, to the "Light unto our path" that was forsaken and that causes God to punish his Israel in the first place.
Brakhot and Shabbat Shalom!
Ken
I am concerned about the rift between many christian believers and jewish believers and vice versa. God bless! Jerry kelso
Oh brother.The main reason for that rift is that they are both following man-made religions instead of the bible. Protestant Christians may believe that they are no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church, but most of their beliefs come straight from the RCC.
Oh brother.
Sunday worship? That goes back to the apostles. Acts 20:7Who do you think is responsible for SUNday worship, Easter, Lent, Xmas, All Hallows, etc? (Most churches still follow all these pagan practices.)
Not Yeshua and not the apostles.
http://exposingdeceptions.org/Sun.html
Who do you think is responsible for SUNday worship, Easter, Lent, Xmas, All Hallows, etc? (Most churches still follow all these pagan practices.)
Not Yeshua and not the apostles.
http://exposingdeceptions.org/Sun.html
the-pure-one-true-monotheist said:Moses? Moses! Let's talk about Moses then!
Who do you think is responsible for having festivals on agricultural and astronomical days, animal sacrifice, the priestly caste, the death penalty for breaking "holy" days, holy shrines with "magic" powers, worship in special buildings and tents etc? (Most Israelites still follow these pagan practices)
Not to mention stealing a bunch of laws from the Babylonians!
Not me- I'm for the pure religion, you know...the one from the lost papyri of Abraham.
Sunday worship? That goes back to the apostles. Acts 20:7
ken,
1. The reason Yeshua called the lost sheep of Israel was because they were backslidden and out of covenant with God and they were under the law which had a specific blessing and curses attached to it. The Sermon on the Mount was all about getting Israel to perform the commandments of the law perfectly like the Father in heaven was perfect which coincides with being perfect in love. It was about repentance so they could make entrance into the earthly kingdom and rule as the head of the nations. This is why the meek would inherit the earth. Sadly, they were not being meek or peacemakers etc. Matthew 5, the Beautitudes of the Sermon on the Mount. They rejected Christ because they wanted a conquering Savior and refused to repent. Matthew 23:37-39. Christ also was to fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant concerning the land and the kingdom concerning the Davidic covenant. Genesis 15 and Matthew 1 and Luke 1-3.
2. Christ taught the law of Moses and was raised in Judaism according the gospels including his role as the Messiah as seen in his age of going into God's service in Luke and the baptism in the book of John to be manifested to Israel and to fulfill the righteousness of the law.
3. So the historical context was all about repenting and doing the commandments of the law and belief in the Messiah and that he would save them from their sins and to receive the Kingdom to rule and reign the nations. Historically, this is not a message to the church today in the same context.
When Calvary happened everything changed and the new covenant came into being but Jeremiah 31 of the new covenant with Israel has not been made yet as far as them ruling the kingdom.
4. So much changed before the great commission came for the world had a wider door to receive the Lord and it wasn't about proselyting the gentiles into Judaism.
In Paul's day the jews were in the body of Christ as after Calvary. Paul said there is no jew, gentile, male or female, no bond, etc. for we are all one in Christ. At the same time Paul recognized that God had not forgotten Israel and their election for their covenant as the head of the nations found in Isaiah 2:2-4. It would and will happen when the fulness of the gentiles happens.
5. This is one reason that there is a rift in judaism with some as well as the whole essence of the law and what jews can do or not do. This need not be if the contexts are understood properly. Jews can be jews and in the body of Christ and many are and yet they still can be jews culturally. They shouldn't have to proselyte gentiles and the gentiles should not make jewish believers feel they are less than a gentile believer.
They were all christians in Antioch first and though it took a while for gradual revelation to come around Peter began to get a better picture 8-10 years later with Cornelius. Acts 10.
The jews were to have the law forever but not under the guise of Moses for it was temporary till the seed should come. Jeremiah talked about the new covenant not like the one Moses made and God would put it in their hearts.
6. The mechanics of the covenants and weakness of the commandments is why the new covenant was built on better promises and it involves more than just the blood of bulls and goats and the priesthood. The ethics of the Mosaic covenant are found in Romans where the man that doeth them shall live in them. The law had was taken advantaged by the law of sin and death and made them live to self effort and result in the frailty of man in sin more than overcoming sin. Romans 7.
7. The essence of the Great Commission was the message of the death, burial, and resurrection and not the law and there is a vast difference between the mechanics of the covenant of Moses and the new covenant of Christ in his blood and christian living for both the jew and the gentile. Law and grace are at opposite polars and yet they are very close at the same time in proximity because of the morality aspect. The whole law was connected with the moral aspect and to show man how sinful he was and the knowledge of sin, etc.
8. The letter of the law keeps Israel blinded according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:1-16 and this is why much has changed and it is important to understand the historical context of Jesus teachings under the Mosaic law before we can understand what it means to the church. Jesus was calling the lost sheep back to their covenant and to believe in him for he was the reality of the redemption plan for saving them. When they believe wholly as a nation God would take away their stony heart and give them a new heart and this will happen in the tribulation before they receive the new covenant of the death, burial, and resurrection and when he comes back when their nation is almost ready to be annihilated they will look on him who they have pierced Revelation 1 and they will become a nation born in one day for Zion who is travailing will deliver her children. Isaiah 66:6-7 and a little further on down. Sorry, I got a little long but, I am concerned about the rift between many christian believers and jewish believers and vice versa. God bless! Jerry kelso
This need not be if the contexts are understood properly.
I've never been to a Havdalah service that has a sermon. But a homily at a Mass can go on indefinitely.7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.
I've always looked at this as a Havdallah service run amok. The clues are all there.
The first day of the week starts at sundown right after Shabbat ends. Paul talks til midnight, people fall asleep, so if sundown were say 6pm he was going on and on for six hours, else-wise if you are looking at it in Roman time he would have been speaking for 24 hours+. Then there's this
8 There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting.
Indicating that the Shabbat was just over and now lamps can be lit
Then in verse 11 After talking until daylight, he left.
So Paul was preaching for about 9 hours, a looooooooooooooong havdallah service but not a worship service by any stretch.
Well after one of the attendees fell out a window I guess they ditched that practice!I've never been to a Havdalah service that has a sermon. But a homily at a Mass can go on indefinitely.
Sunday worship? That goes back to the apostles. Acts 20:7
The other Christian holy days? The church of course, via the successors of the apostles. They are not pagan but Christian -- nothing pagan about celebrating the resurrection, i.e. I enjoy them very much.
I think if you want to make statements against the church, you should do it in the Theology forum, and not here in MJ. MJ is a haven of rest for those of us who are Torah keepers, some of whom belong to Christian churches.
Nonsense. I keep Torah, and I'm a Catholic. There is no disconnect at all. I am kosher, I keep shabbat, and I observe the holy days. I do all of that as well as do all my Catholic obligations and holidays. Shabbat on Saturday, Mass on Sunday, just like in Acts 20. No problem.If you are a Torah keeper, then you cannot be Catholic, and vice-versa.
This did not happen with Constantine, although it did happen during his reign. I'm always baffled by Christians who give ecclesial power to an emperor, when in fact it lay with the bishops. Breaking bread on Sunday began with the Apostles.The popes, starting with Constantine, as Peter was never part of that group, changed times and feasts in direct opposition to the Torah. The apostles met every day, so taking one verse out of context means nothing. Name the verse that says, "You shall no longer keep the Sabbath holy, but the first day like the pagans around you." If you find one, burn that bible, because it's lying.
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