What do make of John 5:18

[Xeno.of.athens]

The verse could be read as a comment by saint John reflecting his own interpretation of events or as a comment about how Jesus Jewish enemies interpreted events.

 

[Philip_B]

John 5:1 After this there was a festival of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.​

There is kind of a giveaway here as to who John is writing for there would be no need for Jewish readers and hearers to be told that it was a festival of the Jews. John's Gospel is commonly thought to be the last to be written, with a deeper theological context than the Synoptics, and whilst not trying to take Jesus out of the Jewing context of Origin has a more global context for the meaning and identity of Jesus. John describes Jesus in the previous chapter as the Saviour of the Cosmos.

It is quite likely John's Gospel was written sometime after the destruction of the Temple, and the ejection of the Christians from the synagogue. This would help us understand the relationship (Jews-Christians, Jews-Jesus) in the story being told.

John 5:18 For this reason, the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God.​

It is clear in the synoptic that there was much angst between Jesus and the Jewish Leaders in the last period of his earthly ministry. This was ultimately expressed in the Crucifixion of Jesus. John is less concerned about the chronology of events than he is with the theological significance of those events. The awkwardness of this relationship permeates the 4th Gospel and is front and centre in the Johannine Preface.

John 1:11 He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him.

 

[awstar]

interpretation of events

not sure of what you are alluding to.


Seems like John (the author and eye witness) is simply providing the reason (by the Holy Spirit) as to why the Jews (whom God has blinded since the time of Isaiah) are seeking all the more to persecute Jesus because of an event orchestrated by Jesus' Heavenly Father -- the healing on the sabbath, Jesus curing a man like Isaiah prophesied, and then telling the man to carry is bed around on the sabbath, and the Jews' consternation (def: Fear resulting from the awareness of danger. ) of Jesus equating Himself to God.

John's just fulfilling his stated objective of writing down what he saw so that we might believe in Jesus.

 

[Ted-01]

The verse could be read as a comment by saint John reflecting his own interpretation of events or as a comment about how Jesus Jewish enemies interpreted events.

It seems to me, that if we are going to say that John was writing under the inspiration/direct influence of the Holy Spirit, to then say that John would merely be expressing his interpretation of events, would be a conflict. The statement seems to be emphatic, and there is no declaration of this being his personal point of view.

To me, John is indeed saying that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath and making Himself equal with God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

 

[Ted-01]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

Yes, in a sense He did... but then again, can the Lord of the Sabbath, violate Himself?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

No. Jesus broke the sabbath of the Pharisees, not the Sabbath in the commandments of God Exo 20:8-11 Exo 20. The Pharisees kept their own rules they added to God's commandments and often followed their traditions in lieu of obeying God's commandments which Jesus condemned Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Jesus sinning and breaking God's law means He failed and all humanity would be lost. Jesus did not fail, He kept all of the commandments of God John 15:10 including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and tells us to John 14:15 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 Isa 56:1-6 He is our example to follow 1 John 2:6 Heb 4:15 1 Peter 2:21-22

Just like they falsely accused Him of not being equal to God, they falsely accused Him of breaking the Sabbath commandment. Jesus in His own Words said He didn't.

John 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

To me its a very sad teaching by some Christians that believe Jesus broke the Sabbath and sinned and was justified in His crucifixion, it is basically crucifying Him all over again. Or the other popular teaching that Jesus bended the rules for his disciples and Himself yet condemned the Pharisees for breaking God's commandments Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13, this would basically make Jesus a hypocrite, which is He not. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, not because He arbitrarily changed God's law, because He is God, the Creator of The Sabbath and of heaven and earth Exo 20:11 so if anyone would know how to keep the Sabbath it was Jesus. It's not a sin to help others in need on the Sabbath, it wasn't in the days of Jesus nor is it a sin now. The scriptures are filled with ways to keep God's Sabbath day holy, but the Pharisees was making it all about rule-keeping and not a delight that it is meant to be doing the ways of God and honoring Him. Isa 58:13 Man needs both physical and spiritual rest in Christ which is what the Sabbath provides, on the only day God sanctified and set aside to do so. Exo 20:8-11, Isa 58:13-14 Isa 56:1-6

 

[Clare73]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

As Lawgiver, Jesus gave new law (Mt 5:21-48).

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, of which the OT Sabbath was a pre-figure.
We rest in him from our own works to save and in his work which saves to the uttermost (Heb 3:7-4:13).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No where does it say Jesus is the Sabbath and we can edit the Sabbath commandment in any way as if we know better than God Exo 20:8-11. God said He would not alter His Words Psa 89:34 and as did Jesus. Mat 5:18

Even in the NT, the Sabbath is still according to the commandment Luke 23:56

Jesus in His own Words say He is Lord of the Sabbath i.e. the Creator not the He is the sabbath i.e. day, commandment i.e. creation. Such a sad teaching.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

Clearly NO, the pharisees did not understand the core of the law. Jesus when he healed on the sabbath was not breaking the law but was showing mercy, healing or helping someone in need on the sabbath is not breaking the sabbath! Love is the core of the law!

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Jesus was teaching that acts of mercy, compassion, and necessity do override strict observance of Sabbath regulations. He emphasized the principle of doing good and helping others, even on the Sabbath.

 

[Clare73]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

They were allowed to rescue their oxen on the Sabbath (Lk 13:15, 14:5).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus was teaching that acts of mercy, compassion, and necessity do override strict observance of Sabbath regulations. He emphasized the principle of doing good and helping others, even on the Sabbath.

It sad to think Jesus is so cruel He would leave an animal in a ditch or someone who needs healing, such a medical attention, as a violation of the Sabbath commandment, which is what the Pharisees taught. We serve a God of love. While the Sabbath is still a commandment, just the way God wrote and spoke it Exo 20:8-11, Jesus showed compassion and even though He spent most Sabbaths in the synagogues reading and preaching God's Word Luke 4:16 and the Sabbath is about the day to honor God, resting from psychical works and labors so we can keep God's Sabbath holy and focus on Him. Isa 58:13 Exo 20:8-11. Jesus showed, that if an emergency happens on the Sabbath, not a sin to help someone in need.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Do you think that Jesus violated the Sabbath commandment?

No. Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law, however the pharisees twisted the law and sabbath in such way, they made sabbath something God never intended to be. So in pharisees eyes He broke the sabbath, but actually He never did.

For example, the pharisees added to sabbath that on sabbath if you only allowed to walk certain number of steps, otherwise you brake sabbath, however God never commanded that.
In John 9, when Jesus healed the blind man, He spat on the ground and made mud, which according to pharisees, making mud on sabbath is a sin.

You see where I am going with this. God made the sabbath for our own good, one day a week where we do no work so we spend the whole day with God, but man made sabbath a heavy burden that no one could carry, and Jesus pointed out the hypocrisy of the pharisees.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Yes, in a sense He did... but then again

Jesus never broke any of God commandments. The Son of God came on Earth to fulfil all of God's commandments because none of us has ever fulfilled God's commandments and thus all we deserve is God curses, but because Jesus did fulfil all of them perfectly, He deserves all the blessings. And so Jesus took all of the curses we deserved that we may receive His blessings.

In pharisees eyes He did brake the sabbath, because they kept adding things to sabbath God never commanded, but He never actually broke the true sabbath, the one that God did command. Jesus also revealed the hypocrisy of the pharisees.

 

[Ted-01]

Jesus never broke any of God commandments. The Son of God came on Earth to fulfil all of God's commandments because none of us has ever fulfilled God's commandments and thus all we deserve is God curses, but because Jesus did fulfil all of them perfectly, He deserves all the blessings. And so Jesus took all of the curses we deserved that we may receive His blessings.

In pharisees eyes He did brake the sabbath, because they kept adding things to sabbath God never commanded, but He never actually broke the true sabbath, the one that God did command. Jesus also revealed the hypocrisy of the pharisees.

Any idea, then, why John says that Jesus broke the Sabbath?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Any idea, then, why John says that Jesus broke the Sabbath?

It wasn't John saying He broke the Sabbath, he was giving an account of what the Pharisees was accusing Jesus of.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus never broke any of God commandments. The Son of God came on Earth to fulfil all of God's commandments because none of us has ever fulfilled God's commandments and thus all we deserve is God curses, but because Jesus did fulfil all of them perfectly, He deserves all the blessings. And so Jesus took all of the curses we deserved that we may receive His blessings.

In pharisees eyes He did brake the sabbath, because they kept adding things to sabbath God never commanded, but He never actually broke the true sabbath, the one that God did command. Jesus also revealed the hypocrisy of the pharisees.

I agree, but many take this as because Jesus fulfilled the law that we don't have to, but that's not what Jesus taught. He taught not to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 and showed us the Way John 15:10, by example Heb 4:15 1 Peter 2:21-22 for us to follow in His footsteps 1 John 2:6

 

[Ted-01]

It wasn't John saying He broke the Sabbath, he was giving an account of what the Pharisees was accusing Jesus of.

That's not how it's written in my Bible... j/s.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's not how it's written in my Bible... j/s.

So you really think John thought Jesus was a sinner and agreed with the Pharisees over what Jesus said? John 15:10 John 8:46-47 Nah, he was writing an account of what happened. It was an accusation of the Pharisees, not an accusation of John.