What do I have to do?

[Wolfmane]

What do I have to do to be a Christian? or What do I have to do to become a Christian?

 

[vespasia]

Follow Christ.

It sounds simplistic but this small label has major implications when you stop and consider what Christ said, who he is and what he did.

 

[Quaero]

What do I have to do to be a Christian? or What do I have to do to become a Christian?

Find a quiet place. Sit down comfortably (I've found my local forest is good for this). Just sit there and think about religion, Christianity etc.

How do you become a Christian? other will shout about Baptism and talking to priests and Alpha courses etc, but first you've actually got to believe. Churches will help you, but the cant kick start faith, that is down to you. I was out walking one day and it all just made sense, and I've been working from there.

So to summarise, believe in God, believe in Jesus and read the bible. The rest is not important.

 

[JohnDB]

Prayer is often a great place to start...
I can tell you what it used to mean...before so much other "junk" got thrown into the mix.
Jesus said that the most important thing about being a disciple was to love him.

I know that when people love each other they tend to do and become just like those that they admire and love so much. Doing whatever it takes to make that other one happy.
In the Middle East when Jesus was walking the earth there were three levels of schooling. (it wasn't compulsory till around 60-70 AD) Most of the families that were able did send their children off to school where they would memorize the first five books of the bible. The Hebrew alphabet is also their numbers so math, history, reading and writing were all covered in this school. The first five books of Moses were written in poetic style so it was rather easy (kinda) and eventually you would know them by heart. Then if you did well (top of the class) you would go on to memorizing all of the rest of the now Old Testament and debate with the others what the Old Testament means.
Then if you did well there. You would see different rabbi come by and you would pick one out and ask him if you could follow him. He might watch you and see if you were indeed one of the best students out there...if he agreed then you had one task and goal....To become the rabbi you were following. "To follow so closely behind your rabbi that the dust from his sanals would cover you"
What that meant is that if your rabbi always walked on the left side of the path you always walked on the left side of the path...tripping on each rock that he would. If your rabbi snored in his sleep and you didn't...you would learn how. If your rabbi walked on water....you climbed out of the boat and got to steppin.

Eventually, after you had followed this rabbi long enough and your mannerisms and knowledge of his manners and application of the Torah were the same he would turn around to you and say, "Go make disciples"...meaning that now you were a rabbi yourself. But the original Rabbi now would live through you...the people could come to you and ask you questions and you would tell them the same things as if the original rabbi himself was there answering them.

Does this mean that you should wear the clothes the same and live the same exact lifestyle as Jesus did? No! What it does mean is that due to your studies and learning of how Jesus reacted and behaved in different circumstances and why he behaved the way that he behaved is going to be your focus. You do have to go to work and make a living. (Jesus actually was a stone mason...i.e. construction worker for most of his life) When asked, be ready to give an answer for the hope that you now hold.
You don't have to tell the things that you don't know...tell what you do know for certain. Do your best...that doesn't mean that you will ever attain perfection...but we are allowed the freedom of being your own person...with a unique set of skills and abilities that are special to you...so use those.

 

[razzelflabben]

What do I have to do to be a Christian? or What do I have to do to become a Christian?

believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, God Himself come in the flesh to a lost world....

 

[JohnDB]

The term "Christian" literally means little christ. Which was a Greek way of saying that thise people have become just like the Jewish messiah.
Christos meaning messiah
So...yes, you must believe that Jesus was the Messiah (and all that entails) in order to be a Christian. Anything else is something else.

 

[Wolfmane]

So, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Aethists, Pagans, Satanists, and non-believes are NOT Christians and are therefore not guaranteed a place in Heaven? In fact are going to Hell for being in rebellion.

Catholics, Protestants (all forms Babtists, Episcoples, Lutherans, etc), Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Non-Denominationists, and those that have excepted Christ as their savior but may not attend any church are all saved and will be allowed into Heaven?

Also, what do you mean by savior, and who do you mean when you say Jesus? Which Bible are we using for definitions because there seem to be differences in interpretation depending on which Bible you are reading.

 

[razzelflabben]

So, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Aethists, Pagans, Satanists, and non-believes are NOT Christians and are therefore not guaranteed a place in Heaven? In fact are going to Hell for being in rebellion.

Catholics, Protestants (all forms Babtists, Episcoples, Lutherans, etc), Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Non-Denominationists, and those that have excepted Christ as their savior but may not attend any church are all saved and will be allowed into Heaven?

Also, what do you mean by savior, and who do you mean when you say Jesus? Which Bible are we using for definitions because there seem to be differences in interpretation depending on which Bible you are reading.

Well first, it isn't religion, it's belief, not the same thing...therefore it is as individual as you are, no baptist, lutheran, budist, etc. communities in "heaven"...secondly we are talking the Holy Bible.

 

[Quaero]

So, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Aethists, Pagans, Satanists, and non-believes are NOT Christians and are therefore not guaranteed a place in Heaven? In fact are going to Hell for being in rebellion.

No they're not necessarily going to hell. I subscribe to the Christian Universalist theory. Unless you are specifically damned for a serious trespass, then I believe that God will forgive you.

What if, for the sake of argument, you think that Jesus's teachings were admirable, but you don't think he was divine? Are you a Christian then?

No it would make you an academic with an appreciation of his teachings. I find the teachings of Buddha admirable, and practice meditation, yet I don't believe in the divine message in Buddhism so I'm not a Buddhist.

 

[aiki]

What do I have to do to be a Christian? or What do I have to do to become a Christian?

Here's what the Bible says one must do to be saved:

Acts 16:30-34 (NKJV)
30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Romans 10:9-13 (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

James 2:17-20 (NKJV)
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

John 3:3-5 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water even the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Peace to you.

 

[aiki]

So, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Aethists, Pagans, Satanists, and non-believes are NOT Christians and are therefore not guaranteed a place in Heaven? In fact are going to Hell for being in rebellion.

Yes. This is what the Bible teaches:

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matthew 7:18-20 (NKJV)
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

John 3:36 (NKJV)
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Romans 2:5-9 (NKJV)
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil...

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 (NKJV)
7 ...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...

Catholics, Protestants (all forms Babtists, Episcoples, Lutherans, etc), Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Non-Denominationists, and those that have excepted Christ as their savior but may not attend any church are all saved and will be allowed into Heaven?

As you can see from the verses I've already posted, this is not what the Bible teaches. Merely claiming affiliation with a particular denomination does not save you.

Also, what do you mean by savior, and who do you mean when you say Jesus? Which Bible are we using for definitions because there seem to be differences in interpretation depending on which Bible you are reading.

As a Christian, when I speak of Jesus I mean the God-man revealed to us in the Bible. I use the KJV, NJKV, NIV and various others as it is useful to do so. To what "differences in interpretation" between Bibles are you referring?

Peace to you.

 

[salida]

Wolfmane-

Do you think you are a good person? http://www.livingwaters.com/good/ Can you keep all the 10 Commandments all the time 100% of the time? Only Jesus could. This is why mankind needs a Lord and Savior. In christianity one is saved by grace through faith and good works become a byproduct is this true faith. Other religions try to work their way to God without redemption - but the problem is God's standard is light years too high from human standards - so salvation is a gift.

How do you become a christian? Get in a quiet area and pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart. Say, "Jesus, I'm sorry for my sins, I repent. I want you to be my Lord and Savior. I forsake my old sinful ways of the world and want to become a new spiritual creature in You. I want you to become my God and my Lord and Savior. Then ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit to come into your heart. The Holy Spirit helps a christian to live a christian life without it - its impossible. Our human spirit alone doesn't have the power to live a christian life. After you make this first step, you should pray daily. Prayer is very powerful. Then read the Bible (Word of God). And find a church because surrounding yourself with true christians like yourself will help your spiritual walk - no its not necessary for salvation but it will help you become what God wants you to be fully- and you will feel more spiritually energized. ***Find a church that is a serious one about God - not a country club christianity church; thus, those who really practice what they preach. Yes, christians slip once in awhile but that is just because they are human. Put overwall - they should practice what they preach otherwords your wasting your time.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

This is a very encouraging thread. Thank you all!

 

[jade eyes]

There have been some good posts so far that explain pretty well what YOU need to do to become a Christian. I'm guessing you probably want details which a few of the members of the forum on this thread have covered well.

In order to truly call yourself a Christian these are the basic "nuts and bolts" of what is mandatory to my knowledge.

1. You must believe that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God, creator of everything in the universe.

2. You must believe that through the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus came down to earth and became flesh, and died on the cross, sacraficing Himself for our sins.

Now, there are many other things that you "must believe" and or "do" that will come OUT of those two things. For one example, you must be repentant of your sins. Obviously, you can't say with any truth that you believe in Jesus Christ while at the same time your not repenting of your sins. You can however be repentant of your sins and not believe in Jesus Christ, but that is fruitless. Another example is baptism. Do you need to get baptised in order to be a Christian? No, you don't, however if you do believe in Jesus then you will want to be baptised. (He does love us though, and WANTS our love, devotion and trust more than anything else on the earth.)

I know you have your hang-ups about some things but here is a good way to look at it. As Christians, we need to agree on the majors, and teach, share discuss the minors. In other words we have to agree on the major things in the Bible that matter most, such as who God is and what he wants us to do with our lives and HOW we do those things. The minors, like can women preach The Word of God, or is the story of creation a metaphor or literal, does not really effect how you should live your life or what you should do with it.

This is why Jesus is so important, and not deeds, money or anything else that people think will save them.

1. We are all separated from God due to sin. He is HOLY, PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS and JUST. We as people may not agree on whats just or not but we are wrong, no man has the wisdom God has. The wisest man that ever lived (Solomon) pointed this out numereous times.

2. Only God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit is perfect. None of us are perfect and therefore hellbound.

3. Everyone is in need of saving, everyone. No exceptions.

4. No one is saved by thier own methods. What could any human being ever do to be perfect? Again, even great men such as Solomon and Moses made mistakes. Even the disciples of Jesus sinned. These great, wise, and faithfull men could not even save themselves and they knew it. Would you say you are better or as righteous as these men? No, of course you wouldn't. But everytime someone thinks they can get into heaven by deeds they are saying "I don't need Christ or his sacrafice." I can do it on my own, and I can apparently do a better job at it than the 12 disciples who actually walked around with Jesus and heard his teachings from the source. THAT my friend is PRIDE. Let me tell you something about pride. Pride is what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. Pride is so easy to fall into that the greatest angel fell into it. In my opinion that just shows how its all the much easier for people.

I'm done now, but I'll just say that I didn't plan to write all this it just came out, and I think The Holy Spirit took over there. Which reminds me..its the power of The Holy Spirit that will change you when you hear The Word. Its not me or any of the other people on this forum so beware of people who take credit for something they said or did. I'm not trying to be all humble, I'm just saying its the Holy Spirit that does the actual work. Not me or anyone else.

I hope this clears things up for you some. By the way, Mormons and Jehovah Witness are not considered Christians even though they call themselves that. You have to test what they say against what The Bible says to see who is and who isn't.

 

[Wolfmane]

Again, it's either clear and explained in the Bible or there's something else going on. I'm told you have to accept Jesus as the son of God, and your salvation thru which you gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mormoms believe that, Jehova's Wittnesses believe that, one person says Yes, they are Christians, and another says No, they are not. Which is it? It can't be both. I have a Bible, you have Bibles. Let's open them up and see what it says, it is the word of God, so it MUST be clear as to what is and what isn't a Christian.

I don't think anyone WANTS to be a martyr, it happens. It happens when a person does what God wants them to do and is martyred for that action. In our example, the Nazis searching my house where I have Jews hidden. If I can't handle the responsibility, I should not take it on. That's choice. Because God may ask me to do something I'm not comfortable with and that's too bad. Like, not lying, period, no beating around the bush, it's ok to lie here and here, but not there and there. That's a slippery slope, and it will be mans' will and not God's which is prideful and wrong. God says, nope, sorry, don't lie....it's a commandment, not a suggestion, don't do it. Telling the truth is gonna get you killed? Too bad, not my problem, you lie, you sin, you go to Hell. So, Nazis ask, where are the Jews, you have LOTS of options that are not lies, like "None of your business" "Let's see how you like the taste of this chair in your face" "They are in the basement, but I've gotta stop you from going down".....You die, they die, but it's God's will and who are we to question that?

We are talking about Bibles and I asked "Which Bible are we using to define our terms." The Holy Bible was answered. Is that one that includes the Apocrypha or no? How can some writtings be of "questionable authorship" and others not? Who decides of they are questionable? Either men are able to put on paper the word of God as influenced by the Holy Spirit and the rest of us accept that as the word of God, or they aren't. Again, black and white. Either man writes the biblical texts, and man decides what is and what isn't biblical, thereby making it a book of men or God does and how can ANY man then decide it isn't?

Saint Joan escaped her imprisonment, she broke her foot doing it. She was free, but she realized her freedom was gained do to her will and not God's. Realizing the pridfulness of her actions, she returned to her captors, was ultimately found guilty and burned at the stake and martyred. I don't see how that can seen as the worst possible action when a girl, barely a woman, was doing what God commanded she do.

Apocrypha. 10 Commandments vs 14 Commandments. Names!! John wasn't named John. His name might have been the Hebrew equivalent of John, but nobody was running around 2000 years ago in the middle east named John, or Mark, or Matthew. Why can we say it is ok to modernise (change) the names, or leave books out, or condense 2 or 3 commandments into 1 and yet I am told the Bible (which ever one we are using) is the absolute, unquestionable word of God?

 

[razzelflabben]

Again, it's either clear and explained in the Bible or there's something else going on. I'm told you have to accept Jesus as the son of God, and your salvation thru which you gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mormoms believe that, Jehova's Wittnesses believe that, one person says Yes, they are Christians, and another says No, they are not. Which is it? It can't be both. I have a Bible, you have Bibles. Let's open them up and see what it says, it is the word of God, so it MUST be clear as to what is and what isn't a Christian.

I don't think anyone WANTS to be a martyr, it happens. It happens when a person does what God wants them to do and is martyred for that action. In our example, the Nazis searching my house where I have Jews hidden. If I can't handle the responsibility, I should not take it on. That's choice. Because God may ask me to do something I'm not comfortable with and that's too bad. Like, not lying, period, no beating around the bush, it's ok to lie here and here, but not there and there. That's a slippery slope, and it will be mans' will and not God's which is prideful and wrong. God says, nope, sorry, don't lie....it's a commandment, not a suggestion, don't do it. Telling the truth is gonna get you killed? Too bad, not my problem, you lie, you sin, you go to Hell. So, Nazis ask, where are the Jews, you have LOTS of options that are not lies, like "None of your business" "Let's see how you like the taste of this chair in your face" "They are in the basement, but I've gotta stop you from going down".....You die, they die, but it's God's will and who are we to question that?

not sure what your question is here...

We are talking about Bibles and I asked "Which Bible are we using to define our terms." The Holy Bible was answered. Is that one that includes the Apocrypha or no? How can some writtings be of "questionable authorship" and others not? Who decides of they are questionable? Either men are able to put on paper the word of God as influenced by the Holy Spirit and the rest of us accept that as the word of God, or they aren't. Again, black and white. Either man writes the biblical texts, and man decides what is and what isn't biblical, thereby making it a book of men or God does and how can ANY man then decide it isn't?

according to scripture, the bible is the inspired word of God...IOW's man wrote it as inspired by God, it is not a dictated world...as to what is included, I along with many others believe that that also is inspired by God.

Saint Joan escaped her imprisonment, she broke her foot doing it. She was free, but she realized her freedom was gained do to her will and not God's. Realizing the pridfulness of her actions, she returned to her captors, was ultimately found guilty and burned at the stake and martyred. I don't see how that can seen as the worst possible action when a girl, barely a woman, was doing what God commanded she do.

what makes anyone think we can evaluate anyone especial historically to determine if what they did was absolutely the command of God appart from what is specified in scripture? Are we the judge?

Apocrypha. 10 Commandments vs 14 Commandments. Names!! John wasn't named John. His name might have been the Hebrew equivalent of John, but nobody was running around 2000 years ago in the middle east named John, or Mark, or Matthew. Why can we say it is ok to modernise (change) the names, or leave books out, or condense 2 or 3 commandments into 1 and yet I am told the Bible (which ever one we are using) is the absolute, unquestionable word of God?

comes down to whether you believe God inspired it or not...if you doubt that it is the inspired word of God, then including anything you want is okay. If you happen to believe that the inspired word of God is just that, then "polluting" it with other writtings is a violation of your beliefs.

 

[aiki]

Again, it's either clear and explained in the Bible or there's something else going on. I'm told you have to accept Jesus as the son of God, and your salvation thru which you gain entrance to the Kingdom of Heaven.

1 John 5:11-13 (NKJV)
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Mormoms believe that, Jehova's Wittnesses believe that, one person says Yes, they are Christians, and another says No, they are not. Which is it? It can't be both. I have a Bible, you have Bibles. Let's open them up and see what it says, it is the word of God, so it MUST be clear as to what is and what isn't a Christian.

Both Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have additional doctrinal and theological authorities considered equal to the Bible. For the JW's, its the Watchtower, and for the Mormons its the Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. In both instances, Mormon and JW, this is in direct contravention of the command of Scripture:

Deuteronomy 4:2 (NKJV)
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Galatians 1:6-8 (NKJV)
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Revelation 22:18-19 (NKJV)
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The apostle Paul proclaimed Scripture perfectly sufficient in matters pertaining to theology, doctrine and right living:

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The truth-warping effect of these additional sources of spiritual authority on the beliefs of JW's and Mormons is not surprising. The Watchtower, for instance, teaches that Christ was a mere angel known as Michael the archangel. It also denies that Jesus is equal to God the Father and that he was resurrected in a body of flesh. Mormons believe that God has not always been the Supreme Being but worked Himself up to that position through righteous living and persistent effort. In fact, Brigham Young taught that Adam was God, the father of Jesus Christ. They further deny that God the Father is a Spirit. Instead, they contend that God has a body of flesh and bone just as you and I do. Mormons also believe that Jesus was a god but not The God and that we all can attain the same godhood as Christ.

Every one of the above heresies warps the message of the Gospel. The biblical view that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone is denied by JW's and Mormons.

You die, they die, but it's God's will and who are we to question that?

Isaiah 29:16 (NKJV)
16 Surely you have things turned around! Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay; For shall the thing made say of him who made it, "He did not make me"? Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

Isaiah 64:8 (NKJV)
8 But now, O Lord, You are our Father; We are the clay, and You our potter; And all we are the work of Your hand.

Romans 9:20-22 (NKJV)
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,

Job 42:1-6 (NKJV)
1 Then Job answered the Lord and said:
2 "I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
4 Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, 'I will question you, and you shall answer Me.'
5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You.
6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."

We are talking about Bibles and I asked "Which Bible are we using to define our terms." The Holy Bible was answered. Is that one that includes the Apocrypha or no? How can some writtings be of "questionable authorship" and others not?

The Church (not the RC one) decided upon the canon of Scripture. Those books which were eventually formally recognized as the canon of Scripture were in common use among Christians long before their official acknowledgement.

There are many websites that clearly explain how the canon of Scripture was defined.

http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html

http://www.new-life.net/faq000.htm

Who decides of they are questionable? Either men are able to put on paper the word of God as influenced by the Holy Spirit and the rest of us accept that as the word of God, or they aren't. Again, black and white. Either man writes the biblical texts, and man decides what is and what isn't biblical, thereby making it a book of men or God does and how can ANY man then decide it isn't?

See above links.

Peace to you.

 

[jade eyes]

Wolfmane..

You have an issue with the authenticity of The Holy Bible, and whos Christian and whos not. That is a common hang up I believe. AIKI just nuked you with scripture which I think states clearly that the Bible is authentic. Also, it is correct that Mormons and JH's attempted to add books to The Bible which no one except themselves recognize.

Here I think is what your looking for though. As I understand it...

The actual word CANNON is from the root word reed (like reed as in cane). The reed was used as a measuring rod, and eventually came to mean "standard." Are you impressed? YES, tell your wife I CAN read, and your making me read all these huge books haha. Anyway, cannon is the "rule of faith" the standard by which we are to evaluate. Later it came to mean basically an officially accepted list of books. Now...

The Church did not CREATE the cannon. Like you yourself said, The Bible is either The Word of God or its not. Its not The Word of God to a certain point of view. It either IS or IS NOT. (Thank God you don't adhere to postmodernalism.. you know, the what he was doing was right from a certain point of view crap). So... we agree The Bible IS or is NOT The Word of God. The Church did not create the cannon, who did? Well that would be God. God decided which people he spoke through right? People did not. So the Church DISCOVERED which books were of Divine Inspiration. Now since your a critcal thinker your gonna ask how. Theres 5 principles that the church used to discover the truth about authenticity for the Old Testament.

1. Was the book written by a prophet of God? If it was written by a spokesman for God then it was the Word of God.

2.Was the writer confirmed by ACTS of God. Often miracles separated the true prophets from false ones. Example: The miraculous powers of Moses, and Elijah. BTW a miracle is an act of God to confirm the Word of God given through a prophet of God to the people of God.

3. Did the message tell the truth about God. God can't contradict himself, nor can he say anything false. So, no book with false claims can be the Word of God. So if there was contradiction it was thrown out.

4. Does it come with the power of God? The Word of God is actually LIVING and ACTIVE. If a book X was not making any sort of difference in anyones life then God's transforming power was not in it.

5.Was it accepted by the people of God? God's people took these things deadly serious. The lengths Isrealites went through to preserve the Holy Writing are unparalleled. You should read about what they did, its amazing. So they knew the Word of God because it was in them. So they would not accept writings that contradicted the books.

For the New Testament...

The factor in this is divine inspiration. Is it divinely inspired? The test is apolostolicity. Check this out. The New Testament church is built from the foundation of the twelve apostles whom Christ had PROMISED to guide ALL the truth by way of the Holy Spirit into, and the prophets (from the Old Testament). So they knew everything human beings are supposed to know regarding God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. So, the test is that are any of these other books written by the apostles and/or would any other books that were written have approval from the apostles from what we know about them through thier writings? Well just looking at the Epistles there is consistent recognition that in the church there is one authority, the authority of THE LORD. Books in the apocrypha and Book of Mormon and JH's books not only contradict the books that are in the cannon, they claim other authority which is a big no no. Example, Mormons Joe Smith who claims authority by his own right, not of God. Of course thats cause he claims he is a god and everyones a god when we get to heaven blah blah blah.

So there you go. If you want more details then I'll let you borrow my book "The New Evidence". Just anyone can't write something and it has to be included in The Bible because its supposedly about God/Jesus?Holy Spirit.
If you want more reasons on why the apocrypha were rejected like the epistle of psuedo-Barnabas, epistle fo the corinthians ect ect just ask.

And.. as far as changing names in the New Testament I don't know where you got that from. Who says the names Matthew and such were not around then? How do you know that? I've never heard anyone say that. Changing the names to make them more relatable seems rediculous when we have Ezra, Nehemiah, Habakkuk ect. Theres what we consider today regular names in the Old Testament such as David and Daniel, so who says they were not around and did he time travel back in time and take a census with peoples names? I'm not being a smart @$$, I'm just asking where did you hear this from and how does he know, thats all.

So to sum all this up for you. If you want THE Bible. The one that IS true because God wrote it, is true, and we have seen that it is true: (Not the other way around) and is the most recent, literal translation due to modern (last 10 years!!!) archeological evidence/findings and new knowledge in science then buy the NASB Bible. Its got more info in it for example - such as "Hey we finally confirmed that we found this guys house which is what they were talking about in this book of the Bible in this verse." Its pretty cool stuff man.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What do I have to do to be a Christian? or What do I have to do to become a Christian?

Be born again.