What do Democrats see in Ocasio-Cortez?

The Barbarian · May 24, 2019

Petros2015 said:
Who?

"MSM" means "any media outlet that doesn't slavishly agree with everything Trump does and says."

Aldebaran · May 24, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Yep. Only 26% of republicans think Trump has done too little to distance himself from the racists. But 56% of Americans think he's done too little to distance himself from racists. Republicans are less than half as likely as Americans to think so. Huge gap between republicans and Americans.

Just because democrats overwhelmingly have a certain opinion that lines up with the the American people's opinion doesn't make those opinions "facts". Nor does the fact that Americans overwhelmingly think Trump has done to little to distance himself from white supremacists have any legal basis. It just shows you the result of republican pandering to racism.

It's very cute that you make a distinction between democrats/Americans and Republicans. A form of goading, perhaps?

The Barbarian · May 24, 2019

Aldebaran said:
It's very cute that you make a distinction between democrats/Americans and Republicans.

The poll, as I showed you, made a distinction between Americans generally, republicans, and democrats. I'm just showing you what the poll said. I notice that when it broke out opinions from democrats, that didn't bother you. I'm guessing what gripes you is that Americans tend to side with the democrats on this important issue.

A form of goading, perhaps?

Haven't heard any democrats complain. But then, they're on America's side on this one. Thanks for pointing that out. Getting angry at me isn't the answer; getting right with America would help.

Aldebaran · May 25, 2019

The Barbarian said:
The poll, as I showed you, made a distinction between Americans generally, republicans, and democrats. I'm just showing you what the poll said. I notice that when it broke out opinions from democrats, that didn't bother you. I'm guessing what gripes you is that Americans tend to side with the democrats on this important issue.

Haven't heard any democrats complain. But then, they're on America's side on this one. Thanks for pointing that out. Getting angry at me isn't the answer; getting right with America would help.

Continuing to try to portray democrats as Americans and Republicans as something else isn't strengthening your case--or promoting unity. But then again, the democrat party hasn't been promoting unity for the past few years.

The Barbarian · May 25, 2019

Barbarian observes:
The poll, as I showed you, made a distinction between Americans generally, republicans, and democrats. I'm just showing you what the poll said. I notice that when it broke out opinions from democrats, that didn't bother you. I'm guessing what gripes you is that Americans tend to side with the democrats on this important issue.

Haven't heard any democrats complain. But then, they're on America's side on this one. Thanks for pointing that out. Getting angry at me isn't the answer; getting right with America would help.

Aldebaran said:
Continuing to try to portray democrats as Americans and Republicans as something else isn't strengthening your case

You playing the victim card is definitely damaging your case. As I showed you, that's not what the poll did. Democrats and Americans generally say Trump isn't doing enough distance himself from white nationalists.

But it showed what republicans and democrats think, as well as what Americans in general think. Republicans just disagree with most Americans on this point.

--or promoting unity. But then again, the democrat party hasn't been promoting unity for the past few years.

I don't see how Trump arguing that a native-born American judge can't be fair "because he's a Mexican" is promoting unity. I don't see how Trump lying about "thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9/11" is promoting unity.

I don't see how Trump falsely claiming that illegal immigrants are violent criminals promotes unity. As you learned, they are less violent than native-born Americans.

So long as Trump promotes white nationalism, he's the one whose working against unity. And it didn't start with Trump. That's been going on since Nixon.

The late, legendarily brutal campaign consultant Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can win the vote of racists without sounding racist themselves:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “(N-word, n-word, n-word).” By 1968 you can’t say “(n-word)”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “(N-word, N-word).”
George H.W. Bush campaign manager, Lee Atwater, explaining how the republican party panders to racists.

Aldebaran · May 25, 2019

The Barbarian said:
You playing the victim card is definitely damaging your case.

You mean playing the victim isn't celebrated anymore???

The Barbarian said:
But it showed what republicans and democrats think, as well as what Americans in general think. Republicans just disagree with most Americans on this point.

Only according to this poll.

The Barbarian said:
I don't see how Trump arguing that a native-born American judge can't be fair "because he's a Mexican" is promoting unity. I don't see how Trump lying about "thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9/11" is promoting unity.

Whataboutism. Not on topic.

The Barbarian said:
I don't see how Trump falsely claiming that illegal immigrants are violent criminals promotes unity. As you learned, they are less violent than native-born Americans.

Whataboutism. Not on topic.

The Barbarian said:
So long as Trump promotes white nationalism, he's the one whose working against unity. And it didn't start with Trump. That's been going on since Nixon.

Oh, now you're changing it to "promotes" white nationalism?

The Barbarian · May 25, 2019

Aldebaran said:
You mean playing the victim isn't celebrated anymore???

You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

Barbarian observes:
But it showed what republicans and democrats think, as well as what Americans in general think. Republicans just disagree with most Americans on this point.

Only according to this poll.

Nope:

Almost every American voter believes the president should be a good role model, but a clear majority also thinks Donald Trump is neither a good role model nor a moral leader, and most are embarrassed to call him commander in chief, a new poll found.

Donald Trump Is an Embarrassment to Most Americans, Who Don't Want Him as a Role Model to Their Children: Poll
Despite 90 percent of voters saying the president should be a positive influence on children, only 29 percent say he is while 67 percent say he is not, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released on Thursday. The majority of voters across nearly every category—gender, education, age and racial group—deem Trump a bad role model. The one notable exception, the poll found, was Republicans. Seven out of 10 Republicans, 72 percent, say Trump is a good influence on children.
Donald Trump is an embarrassment to most Americans, who don't want him as a role model to their kids: Poll

Winthrop Poll of South Carolinians:

Godly: 47 percent of all respondents said that is very inaccurate and 36 percent of Evangelicals said it was very inaccurate. Of the GOP identifiers, 39 percent said it was somewhat accurate.
Moral: 59 percent of all respondents said it was somewhat or very inaccurate, while 61 percent of GOP identifiers said it was either somewhat or very accurate.

Honesty, morality: New S.C. poll offers opinions on Trump

Complaints about leaders not fostering "unity."

Barbarian asks:
I don't see how Trump arguing that a native-born American judge can't be fair "because he's a Mexican" is promoting unity. I don't see how Trump lying about "thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9/11" is promoting unity.

I don't see how Trump falsely claiming that illegal immigrants are violent criminals promotes unity. As you learned, they are less violent than native-born Americans.

Whataboutism. Not on topic.

If talking about it embarrasses you, it was probably was not a good idea to put it on the table for discussion.

So long as Trump promotes white nationalism, he's the one whose working against unity. And it didn't start with Trump. That's been going on since Nixon.

(republican leaders admitting the fact)

Oh, now you're changing it to "promotes" white nationalism?

No, the republicans did that. I'm just observing what they did (and some of them belatedly admitting to have done it.)

Aldebaran · May 25, 2019

The Barbarian said:
You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

"You guys"? It was Left-leaning advocacy groups that used it as their basis. #MEtoo, BLM, etc.

The Barbarian said:
Barbarian observes:
But it showed what republicans and democrats think, as well as what Americans in general think. Republicans just disagree with most Americans on this point.

Aldebaran observes, and responds by saying: What are you talking about?

The Barbarian · May 25, 2019

Barbarian, regarding the tendency of the right to play the victim card:
You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

Aldebaran said:
"You guys"? It was Left-leaning advocacy groups that used it as their basis.

I see the denial. But all the stuff about being persecuted by "MSM", conspiracy theories about the FBI, and the like, has pretty much everyone yawning.

#MEtoo

What has conservatives shaking is that these women have decided not to be victims. But of course, we see people outed by them, playing the victim card.

Barbarian observes:
But it showed what republicans and democrats think, as well as what Americans in general think. Republicans just disagree with most Americans on this point.
.

Aldebaran observes, and responds by saying: What are you talking about?

Almost every American voter believes the president should be a good role model, but a clear majority also thinks Donald Trump is neither a good role model nor a moral leader, and most are embarrassed to call him commander in chief, a new poll found.

Donald Trump Is an Embarrassment to Most Americans, Who Don't Want Him as a Role Model to Their Children: Poll
Despite 90 percent of voters saying the president should be a positive influence on children, only 29 percent say he is while 67 percent say he is not, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released on Thursday. The majority of voters across nearly every category—gender, education, age and racial group—deem Trump a bad role model. The one notable exception, the poll found, was Republicans. Seven out of 10 Republicans, 72 percent, say Trump is a good influence on children.
Donald Trump is an embarrassment to most Americans, who don't want him as a role model to their kids: Poll

Winthrop Poll of South Carolinians:

Godly: 47 percent of all respondents said that is very inaccurate and 36 percent of Evangelicals said it was very inaccurate. Of the GOP identifiers, 39 percent said it was somewhat accurate.
Moral: 59 percent of all respondents said it was somewhat or very inaccurate, while 61 percent of GOP identifiers said it was either somewhat or very accurate.

Honesty, morality: New S.C. poll offers opinions on Trump

Aldebaran · May 28, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Barbarian, regarding the tendency of the right to play the victim card:
You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

You already used that projection. Repeating it doesn't give you a case.

The Barbarian said:
I see the denial. But all the stuff about being persecuted by "MSM", conspiracy theories about the FBI, and the like, has pretty much everyone yawning.

Your projection has me yawning as well.

The Barbarian said:
What has conservatives shaking is that these women have decided not to be victims. But of course, we see people outed by them, playing the victim card.

As if women are always the victims. That's no reason to exploit women for whatever left-leaning political preference someone has.

The Barbarian said:
Barbarian observes:

Instead of just observing, understanding would be most beneficial.

The Barbarian · May 28, 2019

Barbarian observes:
Barbarian, regarding the tendency of the right to play the victim card:
You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

Aldebaran said:
You already used that projection. Repeating it doesn't give you a case.

We all see your denial. But we all see your behavior, as well. The behavior is more credible.

(much whinging about the "me too" movement calling out sexual predators)

Barbarian observes:
What has conservatives shaking is that these women have decided not to be victims. But of course, we see people outed by them, playing the victim card.

As if women are always the victims.

Not always. A while back a republican senator got arrested for hitting on an undercover cop in a men's room. But since "me too" is about women calling out sexual predators, I suppose that explains why so many of them are women.

Not that women don't sometimes falsely play the victim card. Candace Owens, criticized for saying Hitler wouldn't have been so bad if he had only done what he did in Germany, played the race card to get out of that spot:
Candace Owens Plays the Victim Card

That's no reason to exploit women for whatever right wing-leaning political preference someone has.

Aldebaran · May 28, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Barbarian observes:
Barbarian, regarding the tendency of the right to play the victim card:
You guys overused it. Now everyone is onto you.

We all see your denial. But we all see your behavior, as well. The behavior is more credible.

(much whinging about the "me too" movement calling out sexual predators)

Barbarian observes:
What has conservatives shaking is that these women have decided not to be victims. But of course, we see people outed by them, playing the victim card.

Not always. A while back a republican senator got arrested for hitting on an undercover cop in a men's room. But since "me too" is about women calling out sexual predators, I suppose that explains why so many of them are women.

Not that women don't sometimes falsely play the victim card. Candace Owens, criticized for saying Hitler wouldn't have been so bad if he had only done what he did in Germany, played the race card to get out of that spot:
Candace Owens Plays the Victim Card

That's no reason to exploit women for whatever right wing-leaning political preference someone has.

Continuing the projecting, and now the "No we don't, you do" routine is not making your case. I hope you'll observe that fact.

The Barbarian · May 28, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Continuing the projecting, and now the "No we don't, you do" routine is not making your case. I hope you'll observe that fact.

I just gave you several examples. Reality beats anyone's wishes.

Amos_6eight · May 28, 2019

AOC has a lot of appeal due to her belligerent attitude against what she has billed as "the machine", where her Dem opponent in the primary didn't have the energy or time to run any kind of campaign against her... she resonates with a lot of voters in her NYC borough. In some of the struggling areas like NYC where people making lower or moderate wages can not afford housing within commuting distance to the city. Bernie Sanders endorses her, and frequently they are seen together. Young dems see energy and tenacity, where older more conservative dems see a popular vote winner, but perhaps somewhat short on seasoning and experience in policy decisions. For example, a multi-trillion dollar defense budget.

kcnalp · May 28, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Nope. The idea of you being personally responsible for yourself scares you.

Such irony.

kcnalp · May 28, 2019

The Barbarian said:
He gave each of us a free will to follow Him or reject Him. So our destinies are in our hands, not His. Otherwise, we're just robots, programmed as he chooses.

Did God make each of us exactly as He pleased? Of course!

The Barbarian · May 29, 2019

kcnalp said:
Did God make each of us exactly as He pleased?

With a free will to do as we might?

Of course!

The Barbarian · May 29, 2019

Barbarian suggests:
You fear freedom, because you fear personal responsibility. So you want to blame God for everything. It's not going to work for you.

Taking personal responsibility for one's self isn't paranoia. It's just doing what God expects of us. You can't abdicate that responsibility. What men do, is not God's fault; He gave each of us free will and a conscience.

You should start using them.

kcnalp said:
Such irony.

Yep. I can hear the excuses at Judgement:

"It's not my fault, God. You made me this way."

Don't think it's going to work.

kcnalp · May 29, 2019

The Barbarian said:
With a free will to do as we might?

Of course!

God didn't create everything exactly as He pleased?

2 Thessalonians 2:13 God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

kcnalp · May 29, 2019

The Barbarian said:
What men do, is not God's fault; He gave each of us free will and a conscience.

You should start using them.

Exodus 9:12
12 But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

Yep. I can hear the excuses at Judgement:

"It's not my fault, God. You made me this way."

Don't think it's going to work.

Romans 9:20-21
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Amen Lord!

What do Democrats see in Ocasio-Cortez?

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