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My feelings, from knowledge, not ignorance, towards the unbeliever are clearly articulated by the truths of the Scriptures. The unbeliever...
- is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
It is quite simple. Non-believers, deep down, know God is, they just don't like the God who is. I bear you no negative feelings, rather it is my fervent hope that you understand the good news and pray that it be the will of God to quicken you to eternal life.
The Good News: Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
AMR
The discussions on belief coming from skeptics is a strange one. Some opinions do differ but many who are intellectually honest will accumulate around central ideas, such as there being little to know evidence of God's existence; scripture as being contradictory; belief being subjective, etc. Arguments which arise between skeptics alike, for instance, when an atheist claims that there isn't a God, you might find that an agnostic in this debate is going to be largely supported.I know where you're coming from. Particularly in real life (as opposed to internet forums) scientists are going to debate ideas. However, on internet forums (this forum is not the only one I post on), sceptics almost universally agree with each other (that is, they will always quote other sceptics who posted, congratulating them on making fantastic points). Christians do the same, of course, when they see a fellow Christian post a great response. But my point is that I rarely see sceptics disagree with each other when it comes to discussing matters of belief in deities.
Just a thought to consider
~ PA
I'm really here to understand, and learn more effective ways to get along with people of different beliefs, and similar values.Why are you so concerned in what a believer thinks of you? I can tell you why...it's because a part of you...you know, the holy spirit that is in you is trying to tell you the truth and your spending all your time trying to prove it wrong. Sit down, take a deep breath, think for a minute, let the spirit tell you what you need to hear, after, read the Bible, join a church body, doesn't matter which one and get involved. If that doesn't do it for you....I will be praying double time for you! God be with you my truth searching friend.
I appreciate that you call this knowledge, that from the Scriptures would have be knowledge of the Scriptures. As to their truth bearing factors on reality outside of these, say for instance, in a nonchristian country, I can't say. In my opinion these beliefs can only apply to those who believe in them, as being reprasentative of the truth.My feelings, from knowledge, not ignorance, towards the unbeliever are clearly articulated by the truths of the Scriptures.
*a. I seek the truth, I speak what I believe is truth, and I'm always willing to improve what my version of the truth is.AMR said:The unbeliever...
- is deceitful[sup]*a[/sup] and desperately sick[sup]b[/sup] (Jer. 17:9);
- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- is unrighteous[sup]c[/sup], does not understand[sup]d[/sup], does not seek for God[sup]e[/sup] (Rom. 3:10-12);
- is helpless and ungodly[sup]e[/sup] (Rom. 5:6);
- is dead[sup]f[/sup] in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- is by nature a child of wrath[sup]g[/sup] (Eph. 2:3);
- cannot understand spiritual[sup]h[/sup] things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- is a slave[sup]i[/sup] of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
I'm much more inclined to agree to there being a God (whom no person knows in even the slightest), than to believe in a version of God from other men, let alone follow the "rules" of God from such - It's preposterous!AMR said:It is quite simple. Non-believers, deep down, know God is, they just don't like the God who is. I bear you no negative feelings, rather it is my fervent hope that you understand the good news and pray that it be the will of God to quicken you to eternal life.
I think there are some beautiful literary pieces in the bible. Thankyou for sharing some of them here. I think they are thought provoking and can be a source of inspiration, especially in times of desperation. My view is that one nicely stated truism doesn't make the next equally nice.AMR said:The Good News: Romans 3:23; 6:23; 8:1; 10:9; 10:13
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:13
For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
AMR
prayer is what you need, again feeding you our spiritual belief means nothing to you. your question is sort of out of context and absolutely try's to bring christians to argue with you because that's pretty much what we are doing.
we throw a scripture you bring up an excuse.
undoing says :"I'm really here to understand, and learn more effective ways to get along with people of different beliefs, and similar values."
what you said above: you do that. examine the numerous threads and i pray one day a thread will get to you spiritually. until then i rest my case with unbelievers "cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
your just that and even to all the members on this site that are christians. there is no need to feed into this demonic spirit. all he needs is prayer and guidance. he even said he was a christian, don't know how you lost faith or what caused you to leave god and turn your back on him and then all of a sudden you ask what we think about atheists.
atheists are unbelievers in god what do you think we are suppose to think of you? there are numerous scriptures that present to what god thinks of unbelievers so why should believers waste time explaining to you on what we think. its not about what we think its what god thinks.
if your talking socially, of course i have nothing but love for PEOPLE. if your a unbeliever why should i put that against you as a person? but spiritually why be around someone and they are not helping me spiritually grow with god and also could be discouraging me about a god?
and you say i have a smart tone? okay, its not a tone its more like a calm tone. why should i get mad over your unbelief in god? you live your life and what us christians do and continuously do for the lost is PRAY!
now maybe that last sentence was a bit of smart tone because it should.
Hearing your spiritual belief is appreciated. If you haven't noticed, all my previous posts regarding kind well wishers have been thankfully respected.prayer is what you need, again feeding you our spiritual belief means nothing to you. your question is sort of out of context and absolutely try's to bring christians to argue with you because that's pretty much what we are doing.
Can you illustrate this point with an example?jcnwog said:we throw a scripture you bring up an excuse.
Getting along is important to me, regardless of religious belief, colour, or creed.jcnwog said:undoing says :"I'm really here to understand, and learn more effective ways to get along with people of different beliefs, and similar values."
So because I don't believe, you assume I don't understand?jcnwog said:what you said above: you do that. examine the numerous threads and i pray one day a thread will get to you spiritually. until then i rest my case with unbelievers "cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
I don't know but you sound all over the place there. You say I'm a demonic spirit, don't "feed in-to", give guidance and prayer, then ask how and why I left God and don't understand Christian perspective.jcnwog said:your just that and even to all the members on this site that are christians. there is no need to feed into this demonic spirit. all he needs is prayer and guidance. he even said he was a christian, don't know how you lost faith or what caused you to leave god and turn your back on him and then all of a sudden you ask what we think about atheists.
I'd like to believe that every Christian makes up their own mind concerning basic interactions, behaviours, etc. I fear that you will be attempting to live in an impossible way if you think you have to follow the bible word for word. I wish you well.jcnwog said:atheists are unbelievers in god what do you think we are suppose to think of you? there are numerous scriptures that present to what god thinks of unbelievers so why should believers waste time explaining to you on what we think. its not about what we think its what god thinks.
Before I was a Satanic monster, now just a person who doesn't believe. I can see some conflicting ideas in the position you've adopted.jcnwog said:if your talking socially, of course i have nothing but love for PEOPLE. if your a unbeliever why should i put that against you as a person? but spiritually why be around someone and they are not helping me spiritually grow with god and also could be discouraging me about a god?
Thankyou for being honest.jcnwog said:and you say i have a smart tone? okay, its not a tone its more like a calm tone. why should i get mad over your unbelief in god? you live your life and what us christians do and continuously do for the lost is PRAY!
now maybe that last sentence was a bit of smart tone because it should.
Before you became a satanic monster and now an unbeliever, what brought you to this? I mean why are you an unbeliever? Just asking.Hearing your spiritual belief is appreciated. If you haven't noticed, all my previous posts regarding kind well wishers have been thankfully respected.
I'm not out of context, I think the pinacle of the argument (non-agressive, consensus focused argument) has been touched on briefly in the last 10 posts (approx).
That of holding belief versus espousing one as true and correct.
Can you illustrate this point with an example?
Getting along is important to me, regardless of religious belief, colour, or creed.
So because I don't believe, you assume I don't understand?
I don't know but you sound all over the place there. You say I'm a demonic spirit, don't "feed in-to", give guidance and prayer, then ask how and why I left God and don't understand Christian perspective.
I'll separate further for this last one:
I'm not claiming there isn't a God, I'm not anti Christian so why catagorise me among "demonic spirits" and the like?
I don't understand the next part about not "feeding into" unless you mean to say don't attempt to understand what I'm saying because I make good points. If I'm wrong you'll correct me I should hope. I was a christian during a short time of my late childhood. My belief in Jesus wasn't reinforced because I moved area, and my parents aren't believers. Please try to make your posts more clear, as it's awkward responding to mixed messages.
I'd like to believe that every Christian makes up their own mind concerning basic interactions, behaviours, etc. I fear that you will be attempting to live in an impossible way if you think you have to follow the bible word for word. I wish you well.
Before I was a Satanic monster, now just a person who doesn't believe. I can see some conflicting ideas in the position you've adopted.
Thankyou for being honest.
Kind regards.
Basically because there is no evidence which I think is valid.Before you became a satanic monster and now an unbeliever, what brought you to this? I mean why are you an unbeliever? Just asking.
God is with you.
Ok, see what happens when everyone tries to storm through the door?weird every other member agrees with me and has not quoted me and looked for a reply and yet you do?
AMEN!
This isn't an example, it's a point of view.AMR has throw scriptures which are from the bible but you go on and find excuses?
Thanks, but I think getting along matters to all concerned.jcnwog said:that's good and i'm glad your getting along and that's what matters.
undoing said:So because I don't believe, you assume I don't understand?
I came to a new understanding that didn't include believing my imagination was real. <-- true story --- subjectively speaking.jcnwog said:pretty much, you basically just lost faith in god and you have yet to explain how...
Oh ok, you're only calling my soul a demon, ok, for a minute there I thought you were offending my person.jcnwog said:why? you ask why? if you knew spiritually allowing god to work in you, you will see what i see. flesh sees words and assumes i'm calling you a demonic being? i'm calling your spirit out for which the flesh will not understand.
I think it's highly amusing that you think every christian agrees with you. The delivery you made was topsy turvey, I said that this incohesive style made replying awkward and asked if you would write more clearly in the future.jcnwog said:I don't understand the next part about not "feeding into" unless you mean to say don't attempt to understand what I'm saying because I make good points. If I'm wrong you'll correct me I should hope. I was a christian during a short time of my late childhood. My belief in Jesus wasn't reinforced because I moved area, and my parents aren't believers. Please try to make your posts more clear, as it's awkward responding to mixed messages.
it shouldn't be...your surrounding yourself around christian and jesus christ believers, not my fault you feel awkward because every other christian believer sees my point.
So you are opinionated against nonbelievers. You interact here and show some abrasiveness in your words. You say to help believers and that they're not worthy of helping. You say give guidance to them who don't believe, and say that Christians should avoid socialising with them.jcnwog said:i actually live a life easy, thanks to jesus christ! for it being i get along with a lot of people but i know who to surround myself around and who to not surround myself around. why be around someone and all they are going to do is idolize the world or what they are doing and what they have been doing? when god is doing all the work...again you wouldn't understand that point because your not holy spiritually strong.
I think your morals are more your opinion than trully reflective of the entire world. According to you, it's your duty to separate yourself from demons so you can do what's in accordance with God. I think it's incredibly weak in position for a Christian as helping others and improving lives and the world in general require a lot of really hard, physical, work. loljcnwog said:interesting, again i have yet for another christian in this forum or for that manner in my daily life have someone said something is wrong with me. again that's maybe because your living a life that you just can't turn your way from lol and that's the christian belief. you can't run away from god dude once you have a direct relationship from him. if all you wanted to do was join a forum to get a better direct relationship with christians then your motive is wrong.
I respect the religious differences in those around me. I feel empathetic for those who reject Christianity due to a variety of reasons, especially those who believe its illogical to believe in God.
You came to your decision based on past experiences and feelings. Who am I to condemn you for that?
That being said, I do find that more Christians than atheists show compassion, joy, peace, and the "fruits of the spirit." When I was agnostic for many years, I acknowledged this difference and I very much wanted it for myself.
Thankyou for your reply.I respect the religious differences in those around me. I feel empathetic for those who reject Christianity due to a variety of reasons, especially those who believe its illogical to believe in God.
I agree with your view that allows for different perspectives.Steelerbred said:You came to your decision based on past experiences and feelings. Who am I to condemn you for that?
I think it takes a philosophical sort of atheist to find greater meaning in everyday living.Steelerbred said:That being said, I do find that more Christians than atheists show compassion, joy, peace, and the "fruits of the spirit." When I was agnostic for many years, I acknowledged this difference and I very much wanted it for myself.
first i will admit my words came out totally wrong because this was my first time going against someone that really is a non believer. during my daily life i encounter many people in my life that do not know of god and i just say i will pray for them and they say thank you and they live about their ways.
as for you. this is a forum i never encountered a confrontation like this before. if i came off arrogant, i'm totally sorry for i got defensive a bunch and that's something i have to work on since this is my second true forum i've been on. its hard to talk to someone via forums or internet than in person or over a telephone when talking on a topic that really is better to be talked to in person in my opinion.
so undoing again sorry for the misuse posts, it was not meant to come out like that let alone for me to be in this thread
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