What did you do that was submissive?

[bluegreysky]

3rd important pre-marital question.

I know the bible and the Christian "how to be married successfully" books all say "the wife should be submissive". And the bible doesn't really give any examples that apply to modern day and the books will have a generic hypothetical generated scenario like "Mandy wants to go out dancing, but Billy wants to stay indoors and watch a movie. Billy tells Mady he's tired, and really isn't comfortable with Mandy going out dancing alone because other men are there and it's just a sketchy situation, so she agrees to stay home and have date-night-in"
Stuff like that...
Good example I guess, but I want to see examples in all categories of married life so I know what I'm supposed to do when presented with a scenario where I'm supposed to know to be submissive, because let's face it, I'm derpy and it will woosh right over my head.
Like, a story about a wife not going out dancing doesn't necesarily help me if I'm facing a complicated money problem with my man. LOL

So what are some real life examples y'all can give of you (the wife) or your spouse (if you're a guy) being submissive sucessfully?

 

[seeingeyes]

3rd important pre-marital question.

I know the bible and the Christian "how to be married successfully" books all say "the wife should be submissive". And the bible doesn't really give any examples that apply to modern day and the books will have a generic hypothetical generated scenario like "Mandy wants to go out dancing, but Billy wants to stay indoors and watch a movie. Billy tells Mady he's tired, and really isn't comfortable with Mandy going out dancing alone because other men are there and it's just a sketchy situation, so she agrees to stay home and have date-night-in"
Stuff like that...
Good example I guess, but I want to see examples in all categories of married life so I know what I'm supposed to do when presented with a scenario where I'm supposed to know to be submissive, because let's face it, I'm derpy and it will woosh right over my head.
Like, a story about a wife not going out dancing doesn't necesarily help me if I'm facing a complicated money problem with my man. LOL

So what are some real life examples y'all can give of you (the wife) or your spouse (if you're a guy) being submissive sucessfully?

Ugh. Read better books?

How about this: "Mandy wants to go out dancing, but Billy wants to stay indoors and watch a movie. Billy tells Mandy he's tired, and really isn't comfortable with Mandy going out dancing alone because other men are there and it's just a sketchy situation. Mandy discovers that she's married an idiot, but decides not to stick a fork in his eye."

Now that's submission.

 

[bluegreysky]

BAHAHAH ok so submission is thinking the spouses ideas are dumb but doing it their way anyway??

 

[seeingeyes]

BAHAHAH ok so submission is thinking the spouses ideas are dumb but doing it their way anyway??

Well...yes and no.

Did you ever do something with your best friend just because she wanted to even though you thought it was a dumb idea? That's submission. Did you ever get on the floor and play dolls with your niece even though you have absolutely no interest in playing dolls? That's submission. Did you ever spend all night with your friend crying on your shoulder about the guy who just dumped her even though spending all night with someone crying on your shoulder is unpleasant? That's submission.

We are all to submit to one another in love. The idea that marital submission is some kind of separate category of submission is simply not true.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[efraim7praise]

When I got married I had a serious problem with submission because my husband believed that since the bible states that wives must submit to their husbands then the wives should submit to everything that they said regardless of whether or not the wives agreed. As you expected my marriage did not last. I went to God for answers and believe me he gave them to me.
The Lord took me back to the beginning which is the book of Genesis to teach me submission. Submission is a spiritual act not a physical act. The Lord created man and woman equal. As a single person you need to learn the truth about submission. I will tell you more if you are interested.

 

[bluegreysky]

Yes tell me more

 

[efraim7praise]

As I said before after my marriage broke up I went to God for answers and he took me to the book of Genesis. After Adam and Eve disobeyed God instructions, the Lord punished them both and cursed the serpent. He told the woman that he would greatly multiply her sorrow and her conception and in pain she shall bring forth children. Then He told her that her desire will be toward her husband and he will rule over her.(Gen.3: 16). Note that the Lord said that the man will rule over the woman. Many people try to explain around that sentence and try to water it down but it means just what it said.

Note also that God took a rib from Adam's side and created Eve and took her to Adam. When Adam saw her he said, 'this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.' (Gen 2:23). Adam was speaking on behalf of the Lord. He was made perfect and he had no sin at that time.
Therefore before sin God said that the man and woman when they are married are one flesh. This signifies equality between a husband and wife. After sin God said to the woman that your husband will rule over you. This signify inequality. Is God contradicting himself? No because God's word when spoken cannot return unto him void but must accomplish that which was spoken. So the two sentences that God spoke still stands.

Therefore when God told the woman that her husband will rule over her he meant in the spiritual realm. This means a man's spirit is more powerful than a woman's spirit. We cannot change the spiritual realm so it does not matter how much we argue God word still stands. In the physical realm the husband and wife are equal and no one supersede the other but in the spiritual realm the man's spirit rule her spirit. What is the significance of this?

This is very important for us to understand because if a christian lady marry an unsaved man, then this man's spirit will rule over hers so there will be conflict in the marriage.

The Lord return equality between a husband and the wife's spirit through Jesus Christ. This means that when both of you share the same faith and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ then both will have equality in the spiritual realm because you both have the same spirit living in your heart which is the Holy Spirit. This will bring peace and calm in the marriage because you both have the same mind and speak the same things.
I have said a mouthful and I want you to understand so please let me know if you understand or what areas need more clarification. But whatever you do please do not dismiss this because it is important and if we can all grasp the understanding we will save ourselves a lot of heart aches.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I know how this thread will turn out:

THat said, its a hot topic in this section and you'll get a ton of reactions to it. I think for both sexes they need to learn the difference between submission and control. Control being you WILL have sex, you WILL cook me something, you WILL watch this with me.

Even though my wife often lets me decide things, we still are submissive to each other. I always want her input to. Example she may say "Do you think we should just stay home today instead of going to <insert event>?". I would say "I'd like to go but if your not up to thats ok my love, we can stay home. I'm content as long as I am with you!"

Mind you we are still newly wed and all mushy with our responses lol. Point is I am not abusing her submission nor am I telling her "We must do this!". Although to be fair, shes also coming to a new country for the first time so obviously she depends on me for answers since she doesn't know fully what to do.

I think most people are uncomfy with submission even if its mutual because we are taught (at least here in this country) to be yourself. Do what you dream of. Don't let anyone hold you back. SO it conflicts with our christian beliefs that talk about submission (no matter how you think submission works).

 

[ValleyGal]

Submission is not obedience, and the scenario described in the OP is not "submission" rather it is basic respect in conflict resolution. It is not saying "I don't want to go bowling; I'd rather go to a movie, but since you want to go bowling, I will submit and go bowling." That's not submission. That's nothing more than give and take in honouring each others' interests.

Submission is not obedience either, and women are never taught that they have to obey their husbands. My Greek Theological Dictionary defines the term "Hypotasso" - this is the term used every time the Bible says women "submit" or you "submit" to one another (Eph 5:21). Hypotasso means putting yourself under someone else. Iow, it means putting others ahead or above you, thus humility is a key aspect of submission. It also fits along with the verse in Philippians 2 that says we should have the mind of Christ, in humility consider others above yourselves...in that Christ never considered his equality with God to be held onto; rather, he gave it up and took on the form of a man and became (made himself) submit even to death on a cross.

This command is given to all Christians, and the primary relationship you have with your soon to be spouse is first and foremost brother and sister in Christ. Both of you need to have this mind when you enter marriage, and as you live your marriage out. It is mutual and reciprocal, as stated in Eph. 5:21.

So submission is about you and you alone. It's about your own humility and if you are mutually humble, you will always place each other ahead of your selves. Iow, you've got each others' backs.

 

[LinkH]

That's a good question, but one that can be hard to answer. If a husband loves his wife, he'll try to please her, so he may go out with her or go eat at the restaurant she wants to eat at. And she may do the same sort of thing if she is submissive.

Probably the 'classic examples' of submission in marriage have to do when the couple disagree on some sort of family decision and the wife submits to her husband. If she disagrees, she can say that, but say she will submit to his decision.

Obedience is related to submission according to I Peter 3. Peter tells wives to submit to their own husbands, and gives the example that 'Sarah obeyed Abraham calling him lord.' Sarah didn't kick her slave out on her own, but submitted the matter to Abraham. She also went along with Abraham's request to say she was his sister, which got her in big trouble a couple of times. But that raises some ethical issues if that was what Peter had in mind.

 

[Hetta]

3rd important pre-marital question.

I know the bible and the Christian "how to be married successfully" books all say "the wife should be submissive". And the bible doesn't really give any examples that apply to modern day and the books will have a generic hypothetical generated scenario like "Mandy wants to go out dancing, but Billy wants to stay indoors and watch a movie. Billy tells Mady he's tired, and really isn't comfortable with Mandy going out dancing alone because other men are there and it's just a sketchy situation, so she agrees to stay home and have date-night-in"
Stuff like that...
Good example I guess, but I want to see examples in all categories of married life so I know what I'm supposed to do when presented with a scenario where I'm supposed to know to be submissive, because let's face it, I'm derpy and it will woosh right over my head.
Like, a story about a wife not going out dancing doesn't necesarily help me if I'm facing a complicated money problem with my man. LOL

So what are some real life examples y'all can give of you (the wife) or your spouse (if you're a guy) being submissive sucessfully?

I have never been submissive. I have been married for a very long time and it was not something that either of use were ever interested in. My dh likes me to be his equal in all things, and so it has never been an issue.

 

[tall73]

Submission is not obedience,



and the scenario described in the OP is not "submission" rather it is basic respect in conflict resolution. It is not saying "I don't want to go bowling; I'd rather go to a movie, but since you want to go bowling, I will submit and go bowling." That's not submission. That's nothing more than give and take in honouring each others' interests.

I agree with this statement. And even though I hold to a more traditional Christian view of the family, I think most decisions can be reached just by talking it through and weighing the interests and with give and take. It doesn't have to be a demand all the time.

It seems submission comes into play more when there is an issue that has strong feelings on both sides, is critically important, and you have no way to decide it. Who wins in a democracy of two? Eventually someone makes the call.

Now having said that, sometimes the call is to allow the other person their way when it impacts them more, etc. And whatever call is made it should be done with the needs of the whole family in mind. If the man is the head of the family, then he cannot be lookout out only for his own interests, but for everyone in the family. He is not ultimately the "one in charge". He is under God's authority, and as head he answers to God for his course. If he is simply acting in selfishness, that is not God's plan.

The husband loves his wife as Christ loved the church, and needs to give himself for the whole family. He may still need to make the call at times. However, he needs to do it understanding his true role, which is a spiritual responsibility, more than just an authority.

 

[tall73]

Submission is not obedience either, and women are never taught that they have to obey their husbands. My Greek Theological Dictionary defines the term "Hypotasso" - this is the term used every time the Bible says women "submit" or you "submit" to one another (Eph 5:21). Hypotasso means putting yourself under someone else. Iow, it means putting others ahead or above you, thus humility is a key aspect of submission.

While sometimes dictionaries are helpful when a word is only rarely used in the NT, and can use extra-biblical references to help understand it, in most cases the usage spells it out well enough. You referenced some of the usage. However, some make it very plain that the word includes connotations of obedience, or setting one's own will aside. Context plays a big role in how it plays out.


Luk 10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"

Certainly the demons were in no way putting others first in humility. They just had to do what the disciples said due to the authority of Jesus' name.


Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Here again the idea of submission is closely tied to authority. We are to do what the government says. Now of course in Acts we see that if the government orders something against what God says we cannot serve man rather than God. Yet whenever possible we should submit to the authority of the government. This does include obedience.

Peter also agrees:

1Pe 2:13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme,
1Pe 2:14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.


Now the obedience element in Christian family relations, however is mitigated somewhat by the nature of Christian leadership. We are not to lord it over people, and are to serve others. However, there is still a connotation of authority of the one being submitted to (and with that, responsibility) and putting one's own will aside in submission on the part of the other.

However, the person who is being submitted to in the Christian family unit cannot be just deciding on their own whims, but in the interest of the family, as led by God, and as answerable to him, for it to be correctly applying the Scripture.

And as I indicated above, there is no need to for the husband to be invoking this on all manner of minor decisions, or even most major decisions. That would be plain tyranny, and not looking out out for the desires or needs of his spouse. Even in the case of dealing with children, where parents clearly have authority over their children, the father is told not to exasperate his child. It would certainly be exasperating to the wife to be told what to do in every decision. And it is not necessary. There are a number of areas I would much rather my wife make the decision than me, because she has more familiarity or is better at whatever the task may be. It would not benefit the family for me to step in and tell her what to do. And in most cases even if we are both involved, we just come to agreement after talking it out.


However, sometimes someone needs to make a call when all other avenues have been exhausted to come to agreement on key issues for the family. And the husband in doing so must put the needs of the whole family above his own. This may sometimes mean he does not get his personal way, but still makes the ultimate call for the family going forward.

 

[ValleyGal]

The love of Christ is sacrificial love. That is subjection. And that is how a husband should love his wife. All the commands in marriage about how a woman should treat her husband, he also gave to the wife. However, I'm not going to turn this thread into a debate about submission. Submission happens without your spouse even knowing you're doing it. It's humility. And even Christ loved his church in humility so that he submitted to her...some of "her" killed him on the cross. OP, it is up to you how you and your husband live out your humility towards each other.

For me and my husband my husband packed his things and quit his job and moved all the way to a new country and across the continent to be with me because he knew leaving here would not be good for me or my son. For me, I submit to him by supporting him until he was able to get work as a sponsored immigrant. Mutual submission, mutual teamwork got us where we are.....and it's an amazing place to be.

 

[LinkH]

The topic of submission is uncomfortable for a lot of people. I read a sermon by Watchman Nee on it as a part of a church class I was taking once. If you think about it, it can be an uncomfortable to examine yourself and as if you have had a submissive attitude toward parents, bosses, church authorities. Wives have to add husbands to the list. For Christian children who live at home with their parents, it's an ongoing issue. But for wives who want to please God in this area, it can be a difficult topic.

One of the problems is that a lot of people weren't raised with parents where the wife submitted to the husband, and so there is no role model. And sometimes wives don't stop and think if their behavior is submissive or not.

I don't go around the house 'putting my foot down'-- not with my wife anyway. I do with the kids, especially the toddler quite a bit. If I didn't, the floor would be full of crayon wrappers-- her latest thing to mess up. But occasionally, I want my wife to submit to me on something specific, which is usually a matter of principle or safety. My wife is an intelligent woman.

When she's shopping for something a little expensive, like sheets, she'll call and ask if it's okay to buy them. That's an example of submission. We could handle our finances differently. If she had a set budget for household items, or something like that, she might not ask about that sort of thing.

On those rare occasions where we can't come to an agreement, I would want my wife to submit to my decisions as a husband. Usually, though, we talk it out. And if there is something she wants, she has a good reason for it, and can talk me into it, and that's fine with me. But I know really it's my decision, so if a decision doesn't go well, I shouldn't get on her case if she'd persuaded me to do it, since I decided to go along with it.

What I really don't want is for her to act if disrespectful, unsubmissive ways like a stream of constant criticism, belittling, etc. Those types of behaviors aren't good from wife to husband, either. If I came in the house wearing shoes in an hurry to get something, I wouldn't want her to 'chew me out.' I wouldn't chew my parents out when I lived at home about something like that. I wouldn't chew my boss out for making a mess even if I were the one whose job it was to clean up such messes. I might get on a co-worker's case, but not my boss because I am supposed to submit to my boss. That's why I see that as related to a submission issue.

 

[Inkachu]

It's always been a two-way street with me and my hubster. There are times when I sacrifice for his sake, and times when he sacrifices for my sake. We don't keep tabs, we don't keep track, we just do what's best for our family. You need to put "the family" first, instead of this person or that person. What will benefit the home as a whole? Really be considering as you approach marriage, whether you or your spouse-to-be tends to be a "MY needs come first" type of person. If so, that needs to be addressed ASAP. Also remember to be gracious and considerate of each other. If you can let something go without sacrificing some major thing, then learn to just let things go. For instance, my husband knows I HATE it when he leaves the toilet seat up; it totally grosses me out. But rather than fixate on how justified I would be to nag at him incessantly because "how many times do I have to ask??"... I figure that he's amazing and incredible and wonderful in a billion other ways, so can I let the toilet seat go? Yeah, I can lol.

 

[efraim7praise]

Counselor for Christ, You have the right attitude regarding submission. It is not about who submit to who but rather it is about yielding to each other opinions and desires. If you continue to love and support each other your marriage will be successful. The problems develop when one party especially the husband begins to force the act of 'subjection' on the wife. Before a couple marry submission is a topic they need to address thoroughly and be counselled on.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Yep exactly. So many of the women I know coming to america because they believe their husband is sooo amazing don't understand some (not all of course) american men can be very stern about submission. And while its not always true that asian women are submissive, so far the ones from my wifes country often can be. At the same time though they tend to do the "silent treatment" because its culturally ok to do. So submission can become an issue if you believe in the silent treatment.

But because the husband provides for them, they put up with controlling behavior by the husband. To be fair though, when people date online we all tend to put our "best self" on display. We don't mean for it to be a fake display, but its all it is. The real you has to be showing, not the "I'm super amazing" version. Its something me and my wife discussed before marriage. Including the topics of are flaws, submission and other things that are important in a christian marriage.

 

[puregrl]

Submission is one of those things, like previously said, is a hot topic. Many people view it many different ways. I think there is a lot to look at with it. Men are supposed to be the head of the home, spiritual leaders of the house. This is all coming from Ephesians 5:21-33, the biblical basis for how we treat our spouse. So since men are the leaders are head of the home, women cannot be, we are to be submissive to them. This does not mean that they get their way all the time and treat us as slaves. This is a mutual love and respect between married couples. When a man is doing his part and loving his wife as Christ loves the church, a women will be submissive without even knowing it.
There are a lot of good books about this. My husband and I are currently leading a small group from Fireproof your marriage that couples can do, which covers a lot of this. We are also doing The Love Dare which is a great thing to do. There is also a book called Love & Respect that breaks down the basic needs of men and women in relationships.

 

[BeautifulLove]

I really hate this scenario and wording of women being submissive. I can only hope that most people agree that men need to be just as submissive. I also think it takes on a negative connotation.

I'm very hardheaded and probably not the person to give my opinion about submission LOL.

There's been a few times when remodeling our house when we both have had different opinions. If we talk it out a few days I will eventually see things in his way and agree to it, but only if it works.

Plenty of times I try to do things that make him happy. I hate eating hamburgers but we go to his favorite hamburger restaurant once every couple of weeks. We were recently in a theme park. Even though my feet were worn out I walked with him wherever he wanted to go and agreed to do whatever he wanted since I really wanted him to have a great vacation.